A few months back I really pissed off this girl on Model Mayhem. In my profile on there it says:

I also work for MAC Cosmetics, but am by no means a "MAC Girl". I wish for much more than a retail "artist" position.

She wrote me, flipping out about how she is a MAC Girl & damn proud & how her paycheck & her kit look so great, blah blah blah.

For some reason I woke up thinking about it today. I don't really understand why this offended her so much....she's got a decent book and has obviously moved beyond the retail world by taking those shoots. All I was saying was that I wanted to be a professional makeup artist, not stuck at a counter forever.

I was just wondering what you all thought about retail artists...do you consider them real makeup artists or just someone who has gotten a job at a makeup counter for the hell of it?




PS: I didn't feel this was just for people working at retailers so I put it in the regular industry discussion, but if you must, feel free to move it to the sub-forum.

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Ummm.... depends on what line they work for
mainly to me if you work for mac then you are a makeup artist to a certain degree

some counters i just consider them ppl that ring up my purchases pretty much

It is a really good question that you have raised.

I think that there are some amazingly talented artists working in retail (either because they are building skills or actually enjoy the work), but agree that in some cases the staff on some counters seem to just be 'sales assistants'.

For me, I guess I see our profession as being a 'trade' like an electrician etc, and thus you need to be accredited in some form (eg by study, license, apprenticeship or experience) to be able to call yourself a MUA. Just my opinion.

i think that's dumb of her to assume that you should be as proud of MAC because she is. obviously everyone has their own goals in life, and maybe that's not the only thing you'd like to accomplish as far as professional make up artistry goes. however, i could see some misunderstanding from her end too, though. it could have just come across as though u were saying "i'm better", though i don't necessarily agree that wanting to further your career means you're a snob and insulting people that don't want that, though that's probably what she got from that.
no offense to any MAC employee, but there are clearly people who just have a passion in make up in general and happen to represent MAC, and then there are people who only want to be a part of the MAC world, yet not necessarily with their own clientele.

I understood what you were saying.

Sounds like someone may have some self-esteem issues. Either covering up intimidation or in need of parting ways with a high horse. Maybe she's ultra defensive because of all the heat Mac MAs get...especially with this boycott going on. Maybe she's a Mac-Bot...

To answer your question, I think it depends on the person.

I definitely can understand her point. If you hang out on these sites (MUA, Specktra, LJ, etc...) the MAC MA bashing is crazy. First the constant ranting about how horrible we are in attitude and lack of knowledge re: upcoming collections and Second the refusal to believe that any of us have an inch of skill gets to a girl. She was probably just tired of all the flack we get and decided to say something to you. Not saying it's right - just happens.

I can totally understand why she would be pissed but I also understand what you mean. Just remember that it's the internet and she's never dealt with you before so she really doesn't know the tone you were saying it in.

However I personally don't see the "MAC Girl" as someone who lacks any talent or even someone who isn't a "real" make-up artist. I don't think a certification or degree in make-up artistry makes you a more credible artist. Make-up to me is art, so if you have the ability then you have it. Yes you can learn it but it's something that needs to be learned and improved by hands on experience. There are some counters that I don't see as having make-up artists because they do just ring up customers.

I know someone who is considered a "real" professional make-up artist who has worked on beauty pagents and even on news programs. He now works at MAC and loves it. He said it's the best job he's ever had and he truly enjoys doing a girl's make-up for prom or a bride's make-up or someone's make-up for their first date. I guess it depends on the person.

Even before I was hired at MAC I would even get offended when people tried to diss MAC artists as not being real artists. I understand that you were not doing that, but maybe she just took it that way. So back to the question, yes there are some counters were I consider the girls/guys artists and there are others where I consider them to be just sales people.

Everyone has their own opinion ... as long as nobody is dissing anybody's skill or talent then it's all good. I HATE the MAC boycott thing because all those people do is diss the company and the MAC artists. That to me, makes those anti-MAC artists non-credible.

*Sorry I type too much haha

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Sorry, bit off topic, but not ALL of the people involved in the MAC boycott are against the company and artists, rather they are against the practices and integrity of the company, not the company per se. Being upset that their jobs are being "stolen" doesn't make them non-credible as artists.

Back on topic, I think it depends on the person, their skill, and their ambition. I know some very "real" artists if we will classify them taht way who are just fine working at a counter... for now, with no immediate plans for "after". I know some great artists punching the time clock for just a little while longer and then they'll be on their way. Me, I'm just waiting to be done with school. I work parttime now, and may not even be there this summer (I'm hoping for an internship... *crossing fingers*)

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To me when these "real" artist diss MAC artists it does make them non-credible in my eyes.

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If you're a real artist, you're an artist no matter what. I think it varies with retail. Some people probably do it for the cash and discount, others are seriously interested in make-up.

I think your writing may have offended her, because some people strongly identify themselves and quality make-up with MAC. While most MAC fans are sensible, a few get way into the fandom of the company. It's, I hate to say, kind of normal. I've seen the rabid fandom happen with most popular things (computers, TV shows, movies, actors, etc.)

To me, I think that there is a serious issue with the terminology that's used for anyone who does makeup. Someone once said to me, "if you're getting paid to do something, that makes you a professional, rather than just a hobbyist." I like the sound of that, and I believe in that to a certain extent.

Saying someone is or isn't a "real makeup artist" is insulting; anyone who does makeup as their profession is a makeup artist, but some are freelance, and some are working for other people. I believe that first and foremost, the people who work at MAC counters are retail sales people who are ALSO makeup artists. We can all confirm that these people are, in fact, real.

I think that if we choose to use real vs. MAC girls, then we as a community are causing bigotry amongst ourselves. I think it's more acceptable to say that there are freelance artists, contract artists, and retail sales/artists, because I don't see what's wrong with have two talents - of being able to create, as well as sell.

I would also venture to say that there are plenty of people who work for MAC that are not artists, but are still certified, because they took the training. Sure, they know the basics, but these people will be more geared to the sales aspect, and will do well with the company, and rise in the ranks to positions that better suit them than out on the floor doing makeup. The people that do better with the makeup may move on to something else, and continue to improve their trade, or stay on become higher in the ranks utilizing their talents to develop product, looks, or other talent related positions.

But I think overall, we need to recognize that it takes all kinds of people that are makeup artists. Sure, I know some people who do amazing special effects work, but suck terribly at beauty/glamour, and will be the first to admit it. Artists can be anywhere in the spectrum, and they should all be considered "real artists"...or more on point, "professional makeup artists".

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Villainiss :

Very very well said. Thank you!