"Real" makeup artists? - Page 2

littlemakeupboy · 04-13-2007, 07:56 PM #26 (**permalink**)

I agree with you
I do work for m.a.c doing makeup also selling makeup
I don't consider myself just a m.a.c makeup artist just because I don't solely work their
I do makeup in my own time,I freelance
I'm not that artist who has to just use one line of makeup,I use whatever I think works great

eighmii · 04-15-2007, 09:05 PM #27 (**permalink**)

I think it all depends on what you aspire to be. To me working at a counter is a stepping stone, like a gateway job. After I finish makeup school I'm sure I'll be working at a counter. But thats okay. I was talking to the career dept. lady at my school and she said out of the last graduating class (theres only 18 in a class) that one of the guys got a job as a "Product Specialist" at Trish McEvoy making $25/hr. And another girl got a job at NARS making $22/hr.

Something like that would be fine for trying to begin my career. I know I'm not going to doing music videos and weddings and fashion shows straight out of school. I'm sure it'll take years.

But I think a retail position in the makeup field is a good gateway job where you can network, do volunteer work, get to work at special events, etc.

I consider them.. MUA-in-training, I suppose. =/

makeupgal · 04-19-2007, 10:38 PM #28 (**permalink**)

IMO, there are girls who work for MAC, or other lines, that swear because they work at the counter they can run around saying that they are professional makeup artists, but they have not done one photo shoot or anything in print, etc. On the other hand, there are tons of girls out there and on this site for that matter who have all the artistic ability in the world, yet don't work for a makeup company. I know several girls that run around thinking they are sooooo cool and God's gift to the world of makeup artistry, yet they can't accomplish a nice makeup application to save their lives!!! One of the girls (who shall remain nameless) did such a piss poor job on one customer that the customer actually cried her eyes out and had to have her makeup completely redone. I also watched another "artist" use carbon on a bride!!!! On the entire lid!!! It was horrendous. So, to sum up, it can go either way. I think MAC is now notorious for just hiring sales people more than makeup artists like they used to....not saying that is the case with EVERYONE they hire. (My little disclaimer so as to not get a ton of shit for saying that).

Eemaan · 04-29-2007, 12:35 PM #29 (**permalink**)

for me personally i do think its talent...there are girls on this board who have the most phenomenal fotds yet arent 'artists'

certification doesnt make you a 'great' artist. make MAs at my counter have very bog standard application and nothing WOW at all, yet thier termed artists

MAC_Pixie04 · 05-30-2007, 12:34 AM #30 (**permalink**)

I think because there are so many people in the cosmetic industry, that the definition of "make up artist" has become super blurred. I agree w/ Martygreene, a make up artist may work in a retail environment, but a retail employee in a cosmetic environment may not necessarily be a make up artist. I think it's hard to define what's a "real" makeup artist and what isn't. I also don't think that being licensed or accredited makes you any more or less of an artist than someone who practiced for years at home until they honed in their skills necessary. I've seen girls go off to cosmetology school and makeup school and can't do makeup to save their lives. I've seen friends go off to cosmetology school to do hair, and cant whip up an updo with all the tools in the world laid in front of them.

In my opinion, there's really no true way to define a makeup artist, because there's so much self definition. Like Martygreene touched on, it seems like anybody with a decent looking "kit" can drive over to your house, wash her hands and call herself a professional make up artist.

I don't consider myself a professional artist. I have a lot to learn, and a lot of room to grow in the field. I feel like I possess adequate artistry skills, but that I could always do better. I'm an aspiring makeup artist because I do have so much more I can improve on. I work at Sephora, where artistry skill is not required but is helpful, and I work with some artists who've done all kinds of print work and professional shoots/videos etc. I wouldn't say working at Sephora makes them less of a professional being in a retail environment, just like I wouldn't say our cashiers are makeup artists by any means.

martygreene · 05-30-2007, 10:10 AM #31 (**permalink**)

Interestingly, there has been a small-scale discussion about this as it relates to the film and theatre world in Makeup Artist Magazine lately. Specifically, the alarming numbers of film and theatre "makeup artists" who do not know how to properly hand lay a beard and dress it with irons. This is disturbing. Sure, lace-mounts are much more passable and widely available these days, and those may work for theatre, but for film? I've even seen in some recent films some horridly done facial hair pieces, from artists who carry a lot of clout! There definitely are certain skill sets which are requisite to be able to correctly label yourself a professional makeup artist. Same with any job, really.

MisStarrlight · 05-30-2007, 10:59 AM #32 (**permalink**)

I agree. I recently found this one girl I know (who happens to be my mortal enemy) calling herself & makeup artist & [attempting] to get work.

She claims she has all this experience & well, I know for a fact that one Caboodle full of cheap & dirty makeup does not equal a kit....and the "experience" that she has it well-a far stretch of the imagnination.

Is she creative? Yes. Does she have potential? Probably...but the fact that she is out there, basically lying about her credentials & experience really pisses me off.

I mean, I am no expert, but I do not claim to be this great industry professional either.

DonnaGirl · 06-26-2007, 12:40 PM #33 (**permalink**)

OK so...if you work at the MAC counter in Macy's....do you work for Macy's or MAC? Is it appropriate for someone who works in a department store to say they work "for MAC"?

mommymac · 06-26-2007, 02:22 PM #34 (**permalink**)

That was so well put.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Villainiss

To me, I think that there is a serious issue with the terminology that's used for anyone who does makeup. Someone once said to me, "if you're getting paid to do something, that makes you a professional, rather than just a hobbyist." I like the sound of that, and I believe in that to a certain extent.

Saying someone is or isn't a "real makeup artist" is insulting; anyone who does makeup as their profession is a makeup artist, but some are freelance, and some are working for other people. I believe that first and foremost, the people who work at MAC counters are retail sales people who are ALSO makeup artists. We can all confirm that these people are, in fact, real.

I think that if we choose to use real vs. MAC girls, then we as a community are causing bigotry amongst ourselves. I think it's more acceptable to say that there are freelance artists, contract artists, and retail sales/artists, because I don't see what's wrong with have two talents - of being able to create, as well as sell.

I would also venture to say that there are plenty of people who work for MAC that are not artists, but are still certified, because they took the training. Sure, they know the basics, but these people will be more geared to the sales aspect, and will do well with the company, and rise in the ranks to positions that better suit them than out on the floor doing makeup. The people that do better with the makeup may move on to something else, and continue to improve their trade, or stay on become higher in the ranks utilizing their talents to develop product, looks, or other talent related positions.

But I think overall, we need to recognize that it takes all kinds of people that are makeup artists. Sure, I know some people who do amazing special effects work, but suck terribly at beauty/glamour, and will be the first to admit it. Artists can be anywhere in the spectrum, and they should all be considered "real artists"...or more on point, "professional makeup artists".

Gblue · 06-26-2007, 04:03 PM #35 (**permalink**)

Quote:

Originally Posted by DonnaGirl

OK so...if you work at the MAC counter in Macy's....do you work for Macy's or MAC?

both?
in the UK, most department stores pay half the salary, and then the 'house' (EL, in MACs case) pays the other half of the salary. commissions come from the house. i dont know if it works that way in the US too.

MisStarrlight · 06-26-2007, 09:13 PM #36 (**permalink**)

Quote:

Originally Posted by DonnaGirl

OK so...if you work at the MAC counter in Macy's....do you work for Macy's or MAC? Is it appropriate for someone who works in a department store to say they work "for MAC"?

For the US you work directly for MAC. Your paycheck comes from Lauder & you follow MAC policies...it's kinda like MAC rents out space in Macy's.

Nordstroms is an exception to this (I think they work directly for Nordies)

NaturalSister19 · 06-26-2007, 09:15 PM #37 (**permalink**)

Quote:

Originally Posted by DonnaGirl

OK so...if you work at the MAC counter in Macy's....do you work for Macy's or MAC? Is it appropriate for someone who works in a department store to say they work "for MAC"?

You work for MAC. My Freelance/On Call paychecks say Estee Lauder. All of my orientation materials (for my counter position) say Estee Lauder | MAC. I think it would be inapropriate for someone who didn't really work somewhere saying that they did. So if you work at a dept. store in one department, yet have sold items in another doesn't mean you 'work' at said other department. Though, all stores promote cross-selling if they carry more than one line of anything.

Back to the subject at hand:

I agree whole-heartedly with MartyGreene's post #14. These situations do occur and the results of it can many times affect the industry negatively.

Before I developed my own reputation, I had found many people to have been leery (initially) of me because of bad experiences with other MUAs in the past. Whether it was shoddy work, unprofessionalism or obvious lack of experience - I have heard countless stories about disasterous encounters with MUAs. There truly are MANY people out there running around with the title & the monster kit - but no skill, professionalism, education or experience to back it up.

I always try to bridge this on-going gap by seeing both sides, being very open to people and sharing as much information as possible. Many times, I have been in the position to help a make-up maniac/aspiring mua make that transition to Professional Make-Up Arist.

I have another kind of great opportunity beginning July 9 when I start my position at MAC - after having been a Professional Freelance Make-Up Artist for roughly 15+ years. I have only a few years experience in the retail environment.

I will be going into MAC with enthusiasm. My goal will be to LEARN FROM & INSPIRE my co-workers; display the height of Make-Up Artistry at MAC, solidify consumer confidence in the brand - thus moving product, gaining and re-gaining repeat customers. I know that many of my MAC co-workers may not have the resume' I have, but I don't have the product knowledge of MAC that they have. Through our interactions, we can all learn something from one another, and that is wonderful.