A Bloody Display at Easter Mass
- Thread starter j_absinthe
- Start date
duckduck
Well-known member
Ew. This is up there with the people who drive huge pictures of aborted fetuses around our campus from time to time. There is a time, place, and context for these sorts of things, and wandering bloodied into a place of worship is not going to change anyone's mind on anything.
*Stargazer*
Well-known member
People are such assholes. I hate everyone.
*Stargazer*
Well-known member
Quote:
Not only is it not going to change peoples' minds, but if anyone in the audience is like me, its going to solidify my opposition to whatever the protestors want. I'm stubborn like that. Someone could have the greatest message every that I would be totally on board with but if they present it in a manner like that, I'm totally turned off.
Originally Posted by duckduck
Ew. This is up there with the people who drive huge pictures of aborted fetuses around our campus from time to time. There is a time, place, and context for these sorts of things, and wandering bloodied into a place of worship is not going to change anyone's mind on anything. |
Not only is it not going to change peoples' minds, but if anyone in the audience is like me, its going to solidify my opposition to whatever the protestors want. I'm stubborn like that. Someone could have the greatest message every that I would be totally on board with but if they present it in a manner like that, I'm totally turned off.
athena123
Well-known member
Quote:
I couldn't agree with you more stargazer - Not trying to go off topic, but for example's sake only: I used to be quite sympathetic to the plight of the migrant worker. But when they marched down the streets of downtown LA carrying the MEXICAN flag and demanding the same rights as US CITIZENS, my sympathies completely died.
| Originally Posted by *Stargazer*
Not only is it not going to change peoples' minds, but if anyone in the audience is like me, its going to solidify my opposition to whatever the protestors want. I'm stubborn like that. Someone could have the greatest message every that I would be totally on board with but if they present it in a manner like that, I'm totally turned off. |
I couldn't agree with you more stargazer - Not trying to go off topic, but for example's sake only: I used to be quite sympathetic to the plight of the migrant worker. But when they marched down the streets of downtown LA carrying the MEXICAN flag and demanding the same rights as US CITIZENS, my sympathies completely died.
j_absinthe
Well-known member
Shock value is a double edged sword, it puts the message out there but it is wrapped in such a package that it won't be understood on a popular level, even if the contents of said package are based in something that's noble.
I think what's really sad though is that because people are so stubborn and defensive when it comes to their own thoughts and beliefs that their minds automatically close themselves off when confronted in this fashion. Do I think that these parishoners want war? No, but I'm also pretty sure that a large chunk of them aren't doing anything to try and stop it.
In the end though I applaud them for doing what is fundamentally American, for exercising their right to express their own frustrations and anger.
I think what's really sad though is that because people are so stubborn and defensive when it comes to their own thoughts and beliefs that their minds automatically close themselves off when confronted in this fashion. Do I think that these parishoners want war? No, but I'm also pretty sure that a large chunk of them aren't doing anything to try and stop it.
In the end though I applaud them for doing what is fundamentally American, for exercising their right to express their own frustrations and anger.
athena123
Well-known member
^^^ Protests outside of a church on what is considered to be one of the holiest days by many interferes with the freedom to express religion. They could certainly have used a more effective method to deliver their message.
Freedom of speech does NOT grant you the right to trample on the rights of another so you can speak your piece. Any protest that bars access or hampers the freedoms of another is NOT OK. The key is to find a way and platform that won't interfere with the personal freedoms of others.
Freedom of speech does NOT grant you the right to trample on the rights of another so you can speak your piece. Any protest that bars access or hampers the freedoms of another is NOT OK. The key is to find a way and platform that won't interfere with the personal freedoms of others.
*Stargazer*
Well-known member
Quote:
ITA. These people are inherently selfish. They can't think further than themselves and that devalues their message. Can you imagine the uproar if you tried to interrupt something these protesters held dear? They don't respect anyone else's rights, so why should I listen to their message?
| Originally Posted by athena123
^^^ Protests outside of a church on what is considered to be one of the holiest days by many interferes with the freedom to express religion. They could certainly have used a more effective method to deliver their message. Freedom of speech does NOT grant you the right to trample on the rights of another so you can speak your piece. Any protest that bars access or hampers the freedoms of another is NOT OK. The key is to find a way and platform that won't interfere with the personal freedoms of others. |
ITA. These people are inherently selfish. They can't think further than themselves and that devalues their message. Can you imagine the uproar if you tried to interrupt something these protesters held dear? They don't respect anyone else's rights, so why should I listen to their message?
duckduck
Well-known member
Yeah, I have to say, this is not exercising one's own rights, it in infringing on the rights of others. Protesting outside the church, in my opinion, would have been disrespectful and ineffective, but well within their rights. These kids, however, entered the church "squirted fake blood on themselves and parishioners." That is an unacceptable, and in itself, a violent act. It is clear to me that these "demonstrators" simply wanted to gain media attention for their cause and themselves, and they didn't really care who they hurt, frightened, or assaulted in the process. Personally, I am ashamed of their actions. These types of actions take legitimacy from very important causes in the eyes of the public, whom, I believe they were trying to convince in the first place. Asshats.
j_absinthe
Well-known member
reposting this as I'm too lazy to type it out right now...
Having it sit with me all day, I think that's what my bone of contention was, not that they interupted their service, but that they involved the parishoners in such a way that it was more destructive then constructive. Mind you I have no problem with blood covered protestors as I myself have been known to strut about covered in the red, red goodness, but it just seems to me that the most effective activists have been the ones that have used their own bodies as a canvas of demonstration.
I'm not jaded to the point where I don't think we as a people can't change the world-though I'm sure as shite at the edge-but what I do know is that we can control ourselves and what we do. I think that's where extremists fall short is that it seems they don't understand that people are only going to change when they want to change; people are only going to wake up when they choose to do so, others will simply continue to hit the snooze button until the end of the world.[/endrepost]
With all that said, I'm still tickled by the fact that they were this upset over such a "violent display" played out in front kids and families, meanwhile if they hadn't been there they would've been metaphysically cannibalizing someone who was sacrificed by his own father in an extremely violent fashion, someone who may or may not have existed, but it's ok because that's what they believe, meanwhile real people are dead and dying by the thousands because of something we all know is going on, people who can't come back to life. Which is the more violent display again? I don't want to turn this into a theological debate and I'm not justifying what the radicals did as "right", but I can't help by love the hypocrisy.
Having it sit with me all day, I think that's what my bone of contention was, not that they interupted their service, but that they involved the parishoners in such a way that it was more destructive then constructive. Mind you I have no problem with blood covered protestors as I myself have been known to strut about covered in the red, red goodness, but it just seems to me that the most effective activists have been the ones that have used their own bodies as a canvas of demonstration.
I'm not jaded to the point where I don't think we as a people can't change the world-though I'm sure as shite at the edge-but what I do know is that we can control ourselves and what we do. I think that's where extremists fall short is that it seems they don't understand that people are only going to change when they want to change; people are only going to wake up when they choose to do so, others will simply continue to hit the snooze button until the end of the world.[/endrepost]
With all that said, I'm still tickled by the fact that they were this upset over such a "violent display" played out in front kids and families, meanwhile if they hadn't been there they would've been metaphysically cannibalizing someone who was sacrificed by his own father in an extremely violent fashion, someone who may or may not have existed, but it's ok because that's what they believe, meanwhile real people are dead and dying by the thousands because of something we all know is going on, people who can't come back to life. Which is the more violent display again? I don't want to turn this into a theological debate and I'm not justifying what the radicals did as "right", but I can't help by love the hypocrisy.
Dizzy
Well-known member
It's not hypocrisy- Christians use Easter to teach, kids are normally not shown bloody and gory pictures of Jesus to strike that message home. It's not the fact that he died in a gruesome manner that's emphasized, but rather the 'what happened, why'.
Protesters showing up in a service and pouring 'blood' over themselves in front of kids who usually don't entirely grasp why they're protesting, especially why they chose that place at that time, isn't nearly on the same level. There's no message there that couldn't have been given in another forum that didn't have children as a captive audience.
I don't think it ever crossed these protester's minds that not everyone in there wants to protest the war. It's very possible not to like the war (and really, who in their right mind would *like* war?) and to not want to protest it; there are far better methods to get that point across to people who can do something about it.
Protesting in and of itself is all good and well; but time, place and manner should be adhered to. These people seem to have missed that lesson.
Protesters showing up in a service and pouring 'blood' over themselves in front of kids who usually don't entirely grasp why they're protesting, especially why they chose that place at that time, isn't nearly on the same level. There's no message there that couldn't have been given in another forum that didn't have children as a captive audience.
I don't think it ever crossed these protester's minds that not everyone in there wants to protest the war. It's very possible not to like the war (and really, who in their right mind would *like* war?) and to not want to protest it; there are far better methods to get that point across to people who can do something about it.
Protesting in and of itself is all good and well; but time, place and manner should be adhered to. These people seem to have missed that lesson.
purrtykitty
Well-known member
Quote:
Very good point...what on Earth does Easter worship have to do with the war? Absolutely nothing, that's what...which makes this protest a distasteful act, at the very least. I'm all for freedom of expression, but when you impinge on my (or others) rights by protesting at, say a church service or soldier's funeral, it's time for a lesson in classy behavior.
Protest outside the western White House, or for that matter protest outside the local recruiting station (without interfering pedestrian traffic, of course)...heck have a damn parade. Just don't force your protest on me in my most private of moments.
| Originally Posted by Dizzy
Protesting in and of itself is all good and well; but time, place and manner should be adhered to. These people seem to have missed that lesson. |
Very good point...what on Earth does Easter worship have to do with the war? Absolutely nothing, that's what...which makes this protest a distasteful act, at the very least. I'm all for freedom of expression, but when you impinge on my (or others) rights by protesting at, say a church service or soldier's funeral, it's time for a lesson in classy behavior.
Protest outside the western White House, or for that matter protest outside the local recruiting station (without interfering pedestrian traffic, of course)...heck have a damn parade. Just don't force your protest on me in my most private of moments.
