Asians and the VA Tech shooting

Beauty Mark

Well-known member
This article is being passed around, per se. I'd like to have a discussion on it. I personally think articles like these are going to reiterate that it is a big deal the shooter was South Korean.

I'm not a big fan of the news in general, but I've read more stuff about this kid being nuts and antisocial vs. he did this because of his nationality. I think the news has done a decent job of showing that the Asian community doesn't condone the actions. I think people are experiencing a heighten sense of paranoia regarding the alleged staring, comments by anonymous bloggers (honestly, if the shooter had been black, people would be making comments about that, too), and are being too pre-emptive in their actions.

I've been trying to find an article, a blog entry, something to show that it's indeed a real fear. People being randomly pulled over and harrassed, some crime against them, anything.

Thoughts?
 

*Stargazer*

Well-known member
I think there are two key points here.

1. The backlash after 9/11, while completely misguided and idiotic, involved backlash against a community because a large group of Middle Eastern men commited a terrorist attack. Someone brought that up in another post the other day and I thought it was an important distinction to make. There is a large difference between the ideological causes to Islamic terrorism and some random mentally ill person going completely nuts. I think most people, at least those withthe capacity to form rational thoughts, understand the difference.

2. I made this distinction in an earlier post, but there is also a large difference between him being a SK student who showed up to go to college 3 years ago and a SK immigrant who spent his formative years as an American, even if not technically one. So if we assign blame (which I think might be unfounded in this case anyway), it is illogical to blame the Asian aspect of the guy, but more logical to blame his Americanization. Last time I checked, more Americans go nuts and do this shit than random Asians, Europeans, etc.

So while I understand that given the history in this country of uneducated idiots seeking revenge for this type of incident there may be a cause for concern of some isolated incidents, I think that the idea of a mass, popular movement of shunning and blaming Asians for the action of one mentally unstable person is a little bit paranoid.

You can blame the culture of militant Islam for the creation of Islamic terrorists, but you can't blame Asian culture for one guy being mentally ill. There is a major difference and I think most Americans understand that.

I do understand what it is like to be paranoid after an incident like this, though. I'm brown in post 9/11 America. I can certainly understand feeling a little like people look at you funny.
 

blueyedlady87

Well-known member
Time will tell. Interesting article. I read on AOL about a memorial service they did in South Korea for the victims of the shooting. Many of the people were shocked and angered that the shooter was from their country. I think it was very good of AOL to include an article on that. What made me nervous about racial tensions was especially how US doesn't exactly have great relations with Korea. Not that the government would do anything about it, but that the shooting would add to tensions some people feel toward Korea. It's a sad situation. Any way you look at it, no one wins.
ssad.gif
 

Raerae

Well-known member
I thought some of the comments were more interesting than the article...

Quote:
Anonymous said...
Frankly, your kind of comments scare me. I think YOU need to look in the mirror. You define racism!
Or is it not called "racism" if you are slamming whites?

4/17/2007 11:42 PM
yoli said...
I guess the nuts are reading your blog now, Adrienne!

Among the many problems Anonymous apparently has is an inability to read. Tamara Nopper wrote that essay, not Adrienne! Or does Anonymous think Tamara Nopper reads these comments??

And that's right, Anonymous, "slamming whites" is NOT racism. Racism is the systematic denial of rights and opportunities to people of color, to oppressed people. It's not the same thing as "slamming." You can talk to me about so-called "racism" against whites the day when people of color can systematically deny white people anything. Until then, why don't you do a little thinking about differential power and reality instead of leaving cowardly anonymous attacks that don't even make sense.

4/18/2007 12:29 AM

I still find it interesting how so many still refuse to beieve racism or whatever swings both ways. These issues will never be eliminated from society until that view is corrected. Especially since "whites" can't really as a group deny anyone their rights and opportunities. Individuals can, but they can be any color.

Edit: I do think the article itself was well written and honest.
 

Beauty Mark

Well-known member
We don't have good relations with North Korea, but we're fine with South. The funny thing is no one commented about feared racism or went into fear with Kim Jong Il was acting nutty during that one period; if/when he finally does something, I think then it might be reasonable to fear a backlash.

Quote:
Especially since "whites" can't really as a group deny anyone their rights and opportunities. Individuals can, but they can be any color.

The funny thing is that a group of any race can deny any one of any thing, like if I owned a business and only wanted Asians working there. My school district was ran by a predominantly black school board who made it obvious they were looking at hiring more black and Hispanic teachers, regardless of educational background.
 

Raerae

Well-known member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beauty Mark
The funny thing is that a group of any race can deny any one of any thing, like if I owned a business and only wanted Asians working there. My school district was ran by a predominantly black school board who made it obvious they were looking at hiring more black and Hispanic teachers, regardless of educational background.

Thats more of what I was trying to say. You worded it better.
 

NutMeg

Well-known member
I think the definition of rascism is to make judgements and take actions based on a person's race rather than on the facts, not the "systematic denial of rights and oppourtunities to people of colour, opressed people." I think that this quote is an example of rascism, but rascism covers many other situations as well.
 

flowerhead

Well-known member
I think maybe people may have thought that because South Korean society is more repressed and a little 'darker' than other Asian societies. But that is bullshit, because Psychos can exist anywhere.
 

macslut

Well-known member
We were talking in a meeting about this and the concern was the emphasis on "mentally ill". As someone else said, people are morons and I wonder how much is going to be generalized about the mentally ill based on this. It is horrible about the dehumanization that takes place in that "system". He was probably mentally ill but he was also probably not on medication. He was also an extremely angry and enraged individual. Most mentally ill are not going to go and shoot people up.

I guess what I am saying is that I hope this doesn't make the "The mentally ill are dangerous" stereotype worse.

hijack over.
 

xbeatofangelx

Well-known member
Many South Koreans I know are also shocked about the nationality of the shooter, especially the older generation.

And a lot of Asians are reacting in not-so-nice ways. Personally, I'm not afraid of backlash. Some people I know however, are looking for trouble.
I wanted to post this (from someone's blog), but the writer will stay anonymous - he doesn't know I'm posting it. You can see that the racism does indeed swing both ways, and I'm pretty sure if someone asked him if he was racist he would say yes. This fellow in particular is angry, and he's an American born Asian as well.
If you're easily offended, please skip over the rest of this post. (What follows obviously doesn't represent my own thoughts and beliefs).

"In this post, when I refer to America and Americans... I really mean the white population.
I really dislike how American media portrays Cho Seung-hui. All of a sudden, it makes the American public think that the koreans are the bad people. This makes me to think back to when Columbine had its shooting and America blames the parents. Also back to 911 when terrorists took over the plane and the brown people of our country were seen in a negative light. I just love how America will always blame the person of color... but when it comes to someone of their own color... it's not that race's fault anymore. The blame shifts to something else... in the case of Columbine, it was the parent's fault. Admit it Americans... You are just as fucked up as the rest of the world... if not more. Who else could invade and steal a country, enslave an entire race of people, and pronounce themselves as the greatest country in the world. 220ish years of history is a whole lot compared all the other countries in the world, isn't it? Biologically speaking, the white man is actually an inferior race to the rest of the world. So please Americans, don't get caught up in your own glory and self-proclaimed righteousness just yet. Look in the mirror and take a good look at your color and the things you've done before you pass judge someone else or another race.
That being said...
I sympathize with Cho Seung-hui. I really do. If I were in his exact situation, I probably would have done the same thing... it not more extreme and better planned out. I won't go into details of my psychotic thoughts because they might be disturbing to most. Cho Seung-Hui was a sad child... thats all he was. I refer to him as a child, because no one ever gave him the respect he probably deserved or listened to him when he needed to be heard... much like a child's opinion (when he/she's being serious) dismissed by adults. Hate is not something that should manifest from this... but rather sympathy and reformation. Sympathize with him and see his life and where he's coming from. After his point of view is finally understood... reform. Reform and fix our world. Fix all the things that caused him to lash out. Don't hate him and don't blame Koreans or Asians. He was raised in America. If someone must be blamed... blame America.
"Don't judge another man until you walk a mile in his shoes."

"Endquote.
 

Beauty Mark

Well-known member
While I roll my eyes at part of that entry (the short reason why is that historically, many countries have done the conquering and invasion thing), I'm disturbed about the part where he considers Cho's violence not only justifiable but also something that he'd do. I hope for the writer's sake, that if he's at all serious, he'll consider getting help.

If he's just some hothead spouting off anger, way to perpetuate a stereotype that so many Asians are worried about.
 

*Stargazer*

Well-known member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beauty Mark
I'm disturbed about the part where he considers Cho's violence not only justifiable but also something that he'd do. I hope for the writer's sake, that if he's at all serious, he'll consider getting help.


I was so disturbed by that part. Then I got to the part where he said no one ever respected or talked to the kid and it's all our fault. WTFever. How do you get through to someone who stares silently at you when you speak to him? It's not anyone else's place to attempt to socialize with him once they fail once or twice.

And I think that his assertion that race is an issue in this circumstance is grossly inaccuate. I don't think I've ever heard or read anything where anyone blames the fact that he was South Korean. I think people have seized on the mental history aspect.
 

Dizzy

Well-known member
Quote:
Originally Posted by xbeatofangelx
Who else could invade and steal a country, enslave an entire race of people, and pronounce themselves as the greatest country in the world. 220ish years of history is a whole lot compared all the other countries in the world, isn't it?

The British, the Japanese and the Chinese are all known to have had slaves at one point (the Japanese and Chinese both held Chinese slaves at one point, the British had African slaves). Even African tribes took POW as slaves. Hell, there are STILL slaves today in parts of the world. He might want to check his history on that one.

The Persians and Egyptians also managed to steal land from pretty much anyone they pleased since, at their peaks, they were two of the largest and powerful empires of their time.

And, actually, we're one of the oldest modern nations around. We've had 220 years of continuous rule in our land. Australia didn't proclaim independence until 1901 (iirc), the Chinese have been through many cycles of dynasties and other sorts of governments, and the Korean Empire didn't get independence until 1897. I think Norway and Sweden beat us.

And what does this all mean? Absolutely nothing. He claims to be angry at 'white Americans' due to Cho's portrayal in the media. What he doesn't seem to realize is that our ENTIRE media base is controlled by two companies, both whose CEO's are heavily involved in politics. Cho served a purpose to them, which is why he's being plastered around the media as being a "Crazy Korean" rather than a 'mentally ill individual whose administration failed to recognize the signs'. Most people don't now believe that all Koreans are horrible people because this crime was perpetrated by an individual; not a demographic. But does that matter to the media? Absolutely not.

Race is always a high-profile thing; why do you think rabble rousers like Sharpton and Jackson are always making the news? Because we're a very race-consious, PC country; largely due to our media influences.

He should be angry at the media, and the media monolopy; not at white America.

And as for the original topic, I really don't think the Asian community will have to deal with much of a backlash. This kid was unstable, and everyone else was more concerned about protecting his rights, rather than the rights of the 30 victims. He committed the crime, he was a 'bad apple' if you will. I think America realizes this, and knows that although he may have been Asian, that doesn't criminalize the Asian community.
 

blueyedlady87

Well-known member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dizzy
The British, the Japanese and the Chinese are all known to have had slaves at one point (the Japanese and Chinese both held Chinese slaves at one point, the British had African slaves). Even African tribes took POW as slaves. Hell, there are STILL slaves today in parts of the world. He might want to check his history on that one.

The Persians and Egyptians also managed to steal land from pretty much anyone they pleased since, at their peaks, they were two of the largest and powerful empires of their time.

And, actually, we're one of the oldest modern nations around. We've had 220 years of continuous rule in our land. Australia didn't proclaim independence until 1901 (iirc), the Chinese have been through many cycles of dynasties and other sorts of governments, and the Korean Empire didn't get independence until 1897. I think Norway and Sweden beat us.

And what does this all mean? Absolutely nothing. He claims to be angry at 'white Americans' due to Cho's portrayal in the media. What he doesn't seem to realize is that our ENTIRE media base is controlled by two companies, both whose CEO's are heavily involved in politics. Cho served a purpose to them, which is why he's being plastered around the media as being a "Crazy Korean" rather than a 'mentally ill individual whose administration failed to recognize the signs'. Most people don't now believe that all Koreans are horrible people because this crime was perpetrated by an individual; not a demographic. But does that matter to the media? Absolutely not.

Race is always a high-profile thing; why do you think rabble rousers like Sharpton and Jackson are always making the news? Because we're a very race-consious, PC country; largely due to our media influences.

He should be angry at the media, and the media monolopy; not at white America.

And as for the original topic, I really don't think the Asian community will have to deal with much of a backlash. This kid was unstable, and everyone else was more concerned about protecting his rights, rather than the rights of the 30 victims. He committed the crime, he was a 'bad apple' if you will. I think America realizes this, and knows that although he may have been Asian, that doesn't criminalize the Asian community.



Thank you! I agree completely. By saying what he's saying, he is adding to the racism against Koreans. Don't even get me started on Sharpton and Jackson. They are extremists who probably stopped believing in what the preach years ago. Now it's for the money and fame. The general media in America disgusts me. Nothing is reported unbiased, they twist everything. They leave out what they want to and add whatever they want. The media is the reason so many have come to hate the president, and why the progress in Iraq, as well as arrests of Al Queda members found with WMDs go unreported. Cuz it doesn't suit their purposes. We have to remember- they're there to make money.

On a side note and back on topic, a criminal case in Santa Barbara (I'm not 100% sure of the city so don't quote me) was postponed because the defendent was Korean and his lawyer argued that a jury would be biased. The judge agreed. I found this interesting.
 

Raerae

Well-known member
http://news.yahoo.com/s/uc/20070501/...nC8SJ1qDD8B2YD

Quote:
The Dark Side of DiversityTue May 1, 3:00 AM ET


Since the massacre of 32 students and teachers at Virginia Tech, the mainstream media have obsessed over the fact the crazed gunmen was able to buy a Glock in the state of Virginia.

ADVERTISEMENT


Little attention has been paid to the Richmond legislators who voted to make "Hokie Nation," a Middle American campus of 26,000 kids, a gun-free zone where only the madman had a semi-automatic.

Almost no attention has been paid to the fact that Cho Seung-Hui was not an American at all, but an immigrant, an alien. Had this deranged young man who secretly hated us never come here, 32 people would heading home from Blacksburg for summer vacation.

What was Cho doing here? How did he get in?

Cho was among the 864,000 Koreans here as a result of the Immigration Act of 1965, which threw the nation's doors open to the greatest invasion in history, an invasion opposed by a majority of our people. Thirty-six million, almost all from countries whose peoples have never fully assimilated in any Western country, now live in our midst.

Cho was one of them.

In stories about him, we learn he had no friends, rarely spoke, and was a loner, isolated from classmates and roommates. Cho was the alien in Hokie Nation. And to vent his rage at those with whom he could not communicate, he decided to kill in cold blood dozens of us.

What happened in Blacksburg cannot be divorced from what's been happening to America since the immigration act brought tens of millions of strangers to these shores, even as the old bonds of national community began to disintegrate and dissolve in the social revolutions of the 1960s.

To intellectuals, what makes America a nation is ideas — ideas in the Declaration of Independence, Bill of Rights, Gettysburg Address and Dr. King's "I Have a Dream" speech.

But documents no matter how eloquent and words no matter how lovely do not a nation make. Before 1970, we were a people, a community, a country. Students would have said aloud of Cho: "Who is this guy? What's the matter with him?"

Teachers would have taken action to get him help — or get him out.

Since the 1960s, we have become alienated from one another even as millions of strangers arrive every year. And as Americans no longer share the old ties of history, heritage, faith, language, tradition, culture, music, myth or morality, how can immigrants share those ties?

Many immigrants do not assimilate. Many do not wish to. They seek community in their separate subdivisions of our multicultural, multiracial, multiethnic, multilingual mammoth mall of a nation. And in numbers higher than our native born, some are going berserk here.

The 1993 bombers of the World Trade Center and the killers of 9-11 were all immigrants or illegals. Colin Ferguson, the Jamaican who massacred six and wounded 19 in an anti-white shooting spree on the Long Island Railroad, was an illegal. John Lee Malvo, the Beltway Sniper, was flotsam from the Caribbean.

Angel Resendez, the border-jumping rapist who killed at least nine women, was an illegal alien. Julio Gonzalez, who burned down the Happy Land social club in New York, killing 87, arrived in the Mariel boatlift.

Ali Hassan Abu Kama, who wounded seven, killing one, in a rampage on the observation deck of the Empire State Building, was a Palestinian. As was Sirhan Sirhan, the assassin of Robert Kennedy.

The rifleman who murdered two CIA employees at the McLean, Va., headquarters was a Pakistani. When Chai Vang, a Hmong, was told by a party of Wisconsin hunters to vacate their deer stand, he shot six to death. Peter Odighizuwa, the gunman who killed the dean, a teacher and a student at the Appalachian School of Law, was a Nigerian.

Hesham Hadayet, who shot up the El Al counter at LAX, killing two and wounding four, was an Egyptian immigrant. Gamil al-Batouti, the copilot who yelled, "I put my faith in Allah's hands," as he crashed his plane into the Atlantic after departing JFK Airport, killing 217, was an Egyptian.

Mohammed Reza Taheri-azar, the UNC graduate who ran his SUV over nine people on Chapel Hill campus and said he was "thankful for the opportunity to spread the will of Allah," was an Iranian.

Juan Corona, who murdered 25 people in California to be ranked with the likes of Ted Bundy and John Wayne Gacy, was a Mexican.

Where does one find such facts? On VDARE.com, a Website that covers the dark side of diversity covered up by a politically correct media, which seem to believe it is socially unhealthy for us Americans to see any correlation at all between mass migrations and mass murder.

"In our diversity is our strength!" So we are endlessly lectured.

But are we really a better, safer, freer, happier, more united and caring country than we were before, against our will, we became what Theodore Roosevelt called "a polyglot boarding house for the world."

To find out more about Patrick Buchanan, and read features by other Creators Syndicate writers and cartoonists, visit the Creators Syndicate web page at www.creators.com.

COPYRIGHT 2007 CREATORS SYNDICATE INC.

Obviously Biased, as it doesn't include killings by those who are american born. But it does show a side that people are worried about.
 

Beauty Mark

Well-known member
I hate when people write things like that because immigrants are mostly decent people who do everything from clean our houses to teach at our top universities and everything in between.

I love how he leaves out that unless you're Native American, you are immigrant in your heritage.

I wonder, though, how seriously people will take stuff like that.
 

*Stargazer*

Well-known member
"And in numbers higher than our native born, some are going berserk here. "
Ummm, no. Not for one second to I believe this to be true.

He has 14 examples of immigrants killing. Give me twenty minutes and I could come up with 10 times as many native born Americans that have commited violent mass murders.

Pat Buchanan is a vile human being.

ETA:This is the biggest load of BS ever.
"Thirty-six million, almost all from countries whose peoples have never fully assimilated in any Western country, now live in our midst. "

I have seen a good deal of the world and I can unequivocally state that I've never been ANYWHERE with a population of immigrants who assimilate as much as they do here in the US.
 

Raerae

Well-known member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ladybug10678
"Thirty-six million, almost all from countries whose peoples have never fully assimilated in any Western country, now live in our midst. "

I have seen a good deal of the world and I can unequivocally state that I've never been ANYWHERE with a population of immigrants who assimilate as much as they do here in the US.


I dunno... I think the 2nd and 3rd generation's end up fairly assimilated to an extent. However, living in LA, it's pretty easy to see the self segregation that different cultures impose on themselves. You can go to areas and all the signs are in Korean, and the only signs in English, are the street signs. Go to a diff block, and there all in Spanish. Depending on the family structure, this could go on for longer than a few generations.

But realistically, as a nation of Immigrants, thats how we all got started. Named like "New York, and New Mexico, etc" are not because a fully assimilated population arrived, but a group of immigrants bringing their home cultures with them. So I dont think we can judge too harshly.

What is American culture anyways? Can we really even define that?

I think our nation is so HUGE, that you would find it difficult to really classify what is "distinctly" American. If anything, each state has it's own unique culture.

I guess assimilation to me, would be more along the lines of, speaking English, and being a productive, tax paying citizen. As long as people WORK towards that, I'm ok with legal immigration. I'm also OK with legal immigrants first starting out in incubator neighborhoods that are mostly people of their own race/culture. What I dont like, are immigrants, legal or illegal who come here, and dont make any attempt to learn English. Families who make their kids learn their native language first, and english second. Things like that.

The fact that "Must Speak Spanish" is on so many requirements for employment in Southern California these days is testimony to the fact that a large population of immigrants is not assimilating into the mainstream.
 

*Stargazer*

Well-known member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raerae
The fact that "Must Speak Spanish" is on so many requirements for employment in Southern California these days is testimony to the fact that a large population of immigrants is not assimilating into the mainstream.

I disagree that it is entirely about that. I think it's indicative of the fact that there are a lot of NEW immigrants (legal and illegal) that haven't yet learned English. I'm sure there are a considerable number of Spanish speaking immigrants that choose not to learn English (I think they tend to be female and older which I think is a societal issue), but I also know that there are a lot of people who are learning. The problem is, learning English as a second language is freaking hard! Jeez, I know native born Americans who can't even speak the language well. It can be a lot of hard work to learn another language.
 
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