Does this offend you?

[mtrimier]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shimmer When they meet a WWII or a Vietnam or OIF veteran, they're respectful, and if I know they person's rank they address that person by their rank.

just wanted to say thanks for instilling that. that part made me cry because I thought about my great grandfather who fought in WWII but had his medals refused because he was black, for my grandfather and father who served and never complained, and for my friends in service here and in the Middle East that truly appreciate it when they are thanked for what sometimes seems like a thankless job.

now i look like a damn raccoon.

 

[seonmi]

I hope you guys don't generalize the whole young generation

 

[SkylarV217]

Quote:

Originally Posted by seonmi I hope you guys don't generalize the whole young generation

I completely agree.It irritates me to no end when someone makes a blanket statement that they THINK is correct. I will admit that there are several people of my generation that know nothing about history... but while they may not be all that educated on the subject doesn't mean they don't care. Then there is a whole other class of my generation that hold a great deal of respect for past generations and mourn the decline of society. Flippantly saying todays generation doesn't care is ignorant. A select few that don't care doesn't mean a generation.

Furthermore the selfish mentality of "my" generation has been taught to them. I for one can say that my values are much different and i will teach my children that selfishness is defiantly wrong.

 

[Susanne]

Some people are uneducated, careless and not really interested in history on the one hand, but have strong prejudices against Germans in general because of our history on the other hand.

I love travelling and getting to know other countries and have met many very nice and broad-minded people everywhere, but I had to make some bad experiences as well if people found out I am a German.

My generation is not guilty for the atrocities that the Germans once did, but we will always have to live with them as a part of our history and have therefore a high responsibility to make sure no one will ever forget and it will never happen again!

As I say: Our ancestors have made our bed, now we must lie in it. And no one can shirk that responsibility!

 

[seonmi]

Sorry for irritating people! I didn't think it was irritating when posting because I felt that way while reading the posts. That's all. I'll let you guys discuss this.

 

[SkylarV217]

Quote:

Originally Posted by seonmi Sorry for irritating people! I didn't think it was irritating when posting because I felt that way while reading the posts. That's all. I'll let you guys discuss this.

You weren't irritating anyone.... least of all me if you were referring to me.. I was elaborating on your statement in agreement. I'm sorry if I made you feel like I was irritated with you. That wasn't the case at all.

 

[seonmi]

Oops, I misread it. Thanks for the clarification.

 

[rbella]

^^^I don't think it was you that was irritating anyone.

At least not me.

 

[SparklingWaves]

In the discussion of WWII, how many have seen anyone make fun of - The Showa Emperor & General Shiro Ishii? If they did, I doubt it would ever lessen the impact of the Asian Holocaust and what was done at Unit 731

*Not as graphic version*
Japan's Dirty Secret - Japan

*******Extremely Graphic ******

Unit 731 - Japanese Torture & Human Medical Experiments

YouTube - Unit 731 Japanese Torture & Human Medical Experiments

Japanese war crimes

http://www.geocities.com/WallStreet/Floor/9597/wc.html

Japanese war crimes - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Asphyxiation]

I'm not saying we should forget the past....
I'm just saying that there no reason to get all mad at ppl like her that makes fun of hitler..
Yeah what he did was horrible, but it's over.... (thank God)

I personally gets more upset about how USA (and probably other places too) for a long time seperated white and black ppl.. But hey, that's just me..

I just don't really understand why ppl talk more about world war 2 than world war 1.. It's almost like world war 1 is forgotten..
Personly I don't feel more sad for any of them, ww1 was just as horrible for some ppl as ww2...

Just my opinion..

 

[SkylarV217]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Asphyxiation I'm not saying we should forget the past.... I'm just saying that there no reason to get all mad at ppl like her that makes fun of hitler.. Yeah what he did was horrible, but it's over.... (thank God) I personally gets more upset about how USA (and probably other places too) for a long time seperated white and black ppl.. But hey, that's just me.. I just don't really understand why ppl talk more about world war 2 than world war 1.. It's almost like world war 1 is forgotten.. Personly I don't feel more sad for any of them, ww1 was just as horrible for some ppl as ww2... Just my opinion..

You get more upset about segregation than mass murder.... Both are upsetting but um segregation worse than mass murder ?

World War I is not forgotten, the fall out from World War I is what allowed such a Dictator to take Power. The German people were in Desperate need of help after being forced to pay reparations for the damages done during the first World War. The People were Starving and were easily lead to believe the German Workers Party ( Nazi) could help. Thats why it is important for us to remember. With all the destruction in the world, It is VERY possible for such a person to mislead a nation again.


The major difference b/w WWI & World War II is that WWII held a dictator that foresaw and lead a MASS MURDER of not soldiers but Men Women and children b.c of lets hear it , their RACE & RELIGION .... so in fact it was a massive war crime and millions of INNOCENT everyday people were murdered b/c one man didn't like their religion and the way they looked .... So if segregation bothers you so much think about what it would have been like if the US had gathered up all of the black people, put them in work camps were they were starved beaten and medically experimented with and then all herded into a gas chamber so more workers could come in . Not to mention have their identities replaced with a number.

What Hitler did was a huge elaboration of segregation only he added imprisonment, torture, and a genocide. SO I'm not sure how segrigation can bother you more.

 

[Asphyxiation]

I don't know... But is does..

Sure I can cry when I watch a war video that shows stuff that happend at ww2 and such..
But besides that it don't have that much of an effect on me..

Never has really, I don't know why...

 

[SMMY]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Asphyxiation I don't know... But is does.. Sure I can cry when I watch a war video that shows stuff that happend at ww2 and such.. But besides that it don't have that much of an effect on me.. Never has really, I don't know why...

I get the general impression from your posts that you are only not that familiar with the history you are talking about. Maybe if you do a little more research, it will help you frame a better response.

I'm not trying to be insulting, but when discussing large issues such as war and genocide, a little extra knowledge helps you make your point more persuasively. If you can't frame a fairly knowledgable response, it takes weight away from your argument and people tend to give your remarks less credence. Honestly, I'm just trying to help here.

 

[user79]

Stalin killed more people than Hitler ever did, of his own people as well. Do people get upset over a picture of Stalin equally as much? Stalin didn't have the concentration camps in the same sort of style as Hitler did, but he killed off millions of people by taking away their livelihoods, sending them to gulags or other internment camps, simply because he deemed them as enemies of the state, and left them to starve in Siberia. I'm not trying to lessen the charges against Hitler, he was an attrocious leader, but I think a lot of emphasis is put on him only when there are other leaders in this world who were equally as evil or even worse. Stalin's regime caused the death of more people than the Holocaust ever did.


BTW I find WW2 history fascinating, I have read so many books on this period, from people who lived through it, family histories, etc. But what is often little discussed is that also German civilians, especially women and children, suffered extremely in the aftermaths of war. When Berlin fell, the Russian army invaded and almost every woman or girl left in the city was raped, and lived on the edges of starvation. Also you have to consider that there was a resistance movement in Germany and Prussia, who tried to revolt against the Nazi regime, but they were unsuccessful. Also, men were forced to serve in the army, it wasn't by choice. Even young boys were drafted near the end, and basically slaughtered off in lost battles due to decisions of a megalomaniac leader. Hundred of thousands of german soldiers became prisoners of war after their defeat in Russia, and were interned in brutal labour camps that were not unlike the concentration camps that Hitler had erected during the war. The vast majority died of starvation, disease, or cold. Some of these men were not released for 10 or 15 years following the end of WW2! Also, thousands of German families were uprooted from the east and forced to move on foot to the west, and those who stayed faced years of social stigma, rape, pillage, etc.

I think it's important to remember that everyone suffered in WW2, Jews, Russians, the Allies, and Germans. It's important to remember history so that these attrocities will never be repeated.

 

[SkylarV217]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MissChievous Hundred of thousands of german soldiers became prisoners of war after their defeat in Russia, and were interned in brutal labour camps that were not unlike the concentration camps that Hitler had erected during the war. The vast majority died of starvation, disease, or cold. Some of these men were not released for 10 or 15 years following the end of WW2! Also, thousands of German families were uprooted from the east and forced to move on foot to the west, and those who stayed faced years of social stigma, rape, pillage, etc. I think it's important to remember that everyone suffered in WW2, Jews, Russians, the Allies, and Germans. It's important to remember history so that these attrocities will never be repeated.

I very much agree with you. Thank you for all of the extra information. I am only just getting into the Russian involvement and such. Like you I am extremely interested and wondering if you could recommend some resources or books you found particularly helpful on the last part of you quote. I have not heard of those particular POW's before or if I have it must not have struck me.

World War II was devastating to everyone involved particularly Germans the Country was really put through the wringer... The aftermath was devastating and I am glad to see that I am not the only person still interested.

 

[ratmist]

This is just a general response because I've been watching this thread for a while with growing concern.

It really bothers me that:

1) Some people seem to think they are more entitled than others to the way they express their feelings about this very emotive subject. This applies to the OP as well as others that are adamant that the Only Proper And Correct Way To Think/Talk/Deal With Hitler And WW2 Is To Be More Respectful And Take it Very Very Seriously (of which there are many examples throughout this board).

2) Some people seem to think that if you react any way other than the way they think you should react, you're wrong, obviously ill informed, perhaps young and stupid, ignorant, etc.

I just think this whole thread is weirdly bashing people left and right. I think everyone is happy to agree WW2 was awful and Hitler was an asshole and the repercussions echo through to the present day.

But no one has the right to say that someone should feel one way or another about history. If someone doesn't feel a thing about WW2, if it doesn't reach their heart or their emotions.... well, at the end of the day, what does it matter to you?

All you need to know is how you feel and think about the subject. Someone else's opinions, thoughts and emotions really need not affect you.

If someone really hates the OP's user icon (or anyone else's icon), it's really very fucking simple. They should contact the mod or the host that owns the website and instigate a TOS complaint, if the icon is offensive or is somehow in breach of TOS. I don't see why there has to be the insinuation that the OP is a bad person for using the picture, or that anyone who finds the picture amusing (or uses humour to deal with horrific topics to cope) is wrong, ignorant, insenstive, or otherwise defective as a human being.

Just because you're German doesn't mean you're more entitled to your opinion about the war than I am to mine.

Just because your family served in the war doesn't mean you're more entitled to your opinion about the war than I am to mine.

Just because you've been to the war museums, watched films, read books about it, etc., doesn't mean you're more entitled to your opinion about the war than I am to mine. You may be better informed, but that doesn't mean my opinion is necessarily less informed or somehow less meaningful than yours.

 

[Susanne]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ratmist Just because you're German doesn't mean you're more entitled to your opinion about the war than I am to mine. Just because your family served in the war doesn't mean you're more entitled to your opinion about the war than I am to mine. Just because you've been to the war museums, watched films, read books about it, etc., doesn't mean you're more entitled to your opinion about the war than I am to mine. You may be better informed, but that doesn't mean my opinion is necessarily less informed or somehow less meaningful than yours.

Sorry??

 

[SkylarV217]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Susanne Sorry??

You have no reason to be sorry. The OP asked for opinions and you gave her your opinion. You gave an opinion she may not have known before. And like the poster you are apologizing to stated she is no more entitled to her opinion than you are. You did nothing wrong. If you had, a Moderator would have let you know.

 

[Susanne]

Quote:

Originally Posted by SkylarV217 You have no reason to be sorry. The OP asked for opinions and you gave her your opinion. You gave an opinion she may not have known before. And like the poster you are apologizing to stated she is no more entitled to her opinion than you are. You did nothing wrong. If you had, a Moderator would have let you know.

I was just astonished at first.

 

[user79]

Quote:

Originally Posted by SkylarV217 I very much agree with you. Thank you for all of the extra information. I am only just getting into the Russian involvement and such. Like you I am extremely interested and wondering if you could recommend some resources or books you found particularly helpful on the last part of you quote. I have not heard of those particular POW's before or if I have it must not have struck me.

Most of the books I have read on the subject of WW2 are in German language so I'm not sure if they have been translated. But let me see what they have on Amazon...

This is an amazing book, kind of like the Anne Frank diaries from the perspective of a German woman.

A Woman in Berlin: Eight Weeks in the Conquered City: A Diary
by Anonymous
Quote:

Anonymous, then a 34-year-old journalist, started this eight-week diary in April 1945, when the Russians were invading Berlin and the city's mostly female population was heading to its cellars to wait out the bombing. Anyone who was able looted abandoned buildings for food of any kind. Soon the Russians were everywhere; liquored-up Russian soldiers raped women indiscriminately. After being raped herself, Anonymous decided to "find a single wolf to keep away the pack." Thanks to a small series of Russian officers, she was better fed and better protected at night. Her story illustrates the horror war brings to the lives of women when the battles are waged near a home front (rather than a traditional battlefield). In retrospect, she advises women victimized by mass rape to talk to each other about it. Once the war was officially over, the real starvation began; by the time the author's soldier boyfriend returned to Berlin, she was too hungry and hurt to deal with him. When the radio reported concentration camp horrors, she was pained but unable to quite take it in. The author, who died in 2001, has a fierce, uncompromising voice, and her book should become a classic of war literature. First published in 1954, it was probably too dark for postwar readers, German or Allied.

Also this one is good:

Conquerors' Road: An Eyewitness Report of Germany 1945
by Osmar White

Quote:

One of Australia's well-known chroniclers of the Second World War tells the devastating story of war from the insider's perspective. Based largely on Osmar White's own war diary and the articles he wrote as a war correspondent, this deeply personal account stands out among the vast literature on World War II. Selected among the best 100 articles in Australian journalism of the twentieth century, White's eloquent record of the climactic events in the final days of the Third Reich remains as fresh and timely as ever.

I tried to find the books that I have on the German POWs in English language on amazon.com but couldn't find any of them! The thing is that many of these German books don't get translated to other languages because of the sensitive subject matter. I tried browsing on amazon but there doesn't seem to be that many books on this subject? Maybe I didn't look well enough. But I really like reading first-person accounts of this period because it's so much more interesting than reading a boring history book, because it's seeing history from a personal perspective, uncoloured by politics. I'd try browsing for the keywords Stalingrad, German POW, Siberia, German soldiers, etc.