Feminism

[Beauty Mark]

What are your current thoughts on feminism? Do you see yourself as one? it's Women's History Month.

One of my current concerns with feminism is women who do things to be "empowered", even if it goes against who they are just to be a feminist or what they perceive as feminist. For instance, I noticed with some women that they engage in all sorts of things for the sake of feminism, like watching porn or going to strip clubs. I see some feminists starting to get themselves boxed in a different ideal, which to me goes against the idea of feminism, which to me is about letting women make their own choices and having the opportunities of that of a man.

 

[sharyn]

What really bugs me is when "feminists" say that they want equal rights and then they talk down to men in general or threat them bad for being men.

When my bf asks me to please bring him some coke, I do it, becasue he is my partner, and he kindly asked me for it. I do not yell at him for being such an macho a** - because I do not see it as a male telling a female what to do, but my partner asking me for a favor. Of course, I want something in exchange, and he doesnt take it for granted.

theres lots of "feminists" who think that women are superior to men, which is IMO not right. No double standarts, please

Now, dont get me stared on macho guys... I think that real strong (not physicaly) men, mentaly stable and sane, do not have to fear real feminism. If you're afraid of feminists, then you're either talking about the women who think they're superior to men, not the real feminists OR you have a little (

har har harrr) problem yourself.
IMO, you do not need to rant about feminists 10 hours a day if you're really that strong and cool.

 

[medusalox]

I was just reading about this in a chapter in one of my textbooks.

...I consider myself a feminist in the sense that I feel women and men should be completely equal on all fronts. I am not one of those hardcore feminists that feels that women are superior to men (although I've known a few people who feel this way). I feel that women shouldn't be considered unsuitable or inept at some things just because they are female...like changing a tire, police work, etc. I also feel that men shouldn't be counted out of some things simply because they are male...like makeup artistry or classical dance.

I guess I'm just not a fan of gender roles at all.

 

[sharyn]

Quote:

Originally Posted by medusalox I guess I'm just not a fan of gender roles at all.

gotta agree on the gender roles... god, I cant dance to save my life, but I can sure change a flat tire... so why sould I be forced to dance when I cant? Thats the good thing about feminism. But I also think that we still have a looooong way to go before everyone is acepted when they dont fit into these gender roles

The bad thing is, when people use "feminism" as a chance to let all their anger and frustration out - IMO, that no good

 

[*Stargazer*]

I think the feminist movement has been hijacked from its original intent of giving women equal footing and is now more vocalized by women who are convinced that men are evil. I do not consider myself a feminist at all. I consider myself an equalist.

I have more respect for the suffragettes than I do for any modern day feminist, to be honest.

 

[Beauty Mark]

I frankly don't understand feminists who talk down about/to men. I certainly don't subscribe to that. I've known some women and like most prejudices, it does step from fear and ignorance. I don't know how they managed to get through life like that, considering one of the ones I have in mind grew up in an environments where men did indeed support women's rights and has a wonderful family. I think she's one of the ones, though, who is trying to live up to that idea of what a feminist is.

 

[macslut]

Men are not the enemy. I know guys who have practically had their cashews chopped off for holding a door open for a woman. They won't do it anymore. It has gotten really stupid.

I know two Christian women (one is a minister) who are the breadwinners in their homes. The husbands stay home with the children. Completely opposite gender roles. They have no clue what good they are really doing their kids. The children get used to seeing something that even in the 21st century is quite different. That is such a good thing.

I am a prolife. I see abortion as something that should be extremely rare and only done with a great deal of counceling. We should be working for better healthcare for women and supports put into place so that if a woman ends up pregnant, she won't feel the need to get an abortion. It really doesn't solve many problems. I align myself with Feminists for Life. That is how I feel. I also don't see how letting a man (and most doctors who do this procedure are men) do that is somehow empowering. I don't get it. Sorry.

I see feminism as equal opprotunities.

 

[macslut]

Quote:

Originally Posted by macslut Men are not the enemy. I know guys who have practically had their cashews chopped off for holding a door open for a woman. They won't do it anymore. It has gotten really stupid. I know two Christian women (one is a minister) who are the breadwinners in their homes. The husbands stay home with the children. Completely opposite gender roles. They have no clue what good they are really doing their kids. The children get used to seeing something that even in the 21st century is quite different. That is such a good thing. I am a prolife. I see abortion as something that should be extremely rare and only done with a great deal of counceling. We should be working for better healthcare for women and supports put into place so that if a woman ends up pregnant, she won't feel the need to get an abortion. It really doesn't solve many problems. I align myself with Feminists for Life. That is how I feel. I also don't see how letting a man (and most doctors who do this procedure are men) do that is somehow empowering. I don't get it. Sorry. I see feminism as equal opprotunities.

Oh and a really good book is Female Chauvanist (sp?) Pigs. Excellent.

 

[Hawkeye]

Honestly-I got to say this- I think the whole feminist movement is really working against itself at this point.

Do I consider myself a feminist? Yes, I do-but not to an extream. There are things I would prefer a man to do but I want to be able to do it as well. I think that women shouldn't complain about equal pay unless they are willing to do the exact same thing a man will do.

I do think that women should be equal in pay, abilities etc but at the same time, I think the whole feminist movement the extream has really really hindered what it is trying to accomplish. That's just me though.

 

[MAC_Whore]

Quote:

Originally Posted by macslut ....I know guys who have practically had their cashews chopped off for holding a door open for a woman. They won't do it anymore. ....

My mother in law won't open doors for herself. She either waits at a door for her husband or some random man to do it. Yeah, she's not so fun. We don't talk anymore. Anywhoooo...I guess the point is sometimes guys can never win, can they?

 

[giz2000]

Quote:

Originally Posted by macslut Oh and a really good book is Female Chauvanist (sp?) Pigs. Excellent.

I read that book in photography class...it's really good and right on topic with this thread!

 

[macslut]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MAC_Whore My mother in law won't open doors for herself. She either waits at a door for her husband or some random man to do it. Yeah, she's not so fun. We don't talk anymore. Anywhoooo...I guess the point is sometimes guys can never win, can they?

Sometimes they can't. It is a shame. I tend not to open doors for myself. If I am on a date, I really do expect it to be done. If it isn't, it is not the end of the world but it is a point against him. When a door is opened for me, I smile warmly and thank him. Hopefully that will balance any crazies that they may have come across.

 

[thestarsfall]

I am not feminist really. I think some things should definitely be equal, but a LOT of things between men and women can not be equal because we are different (not as different as we are the same if that makes any sense....)

I hate hate hate it when feminists do stupid things just because it goes against what a man wants/says or whatever. I have a friend whose mother used to have a svelte figure and long beautiful curly hair and her husband was quite "pleased" with himself that he had married such a beautiful woman. So she being the feminist she is decided to gain a lot of weight and chop her hair off.
When people have that type of attitude they are still being "controlled" by men...just in an opposite way. Feminists like that cannot talk about being their own person or anything because doing the exact opposite of whatever a guy says is the same as doing everything a guy says, but probably will end up a lot worse in the doing.

Man...I suck a language...hahaha...

And the other point....the name 'feminism' implies in itself that they believe women are better than men.

 

[franimal]

I am actually a double major right now in feminist studies and art history. I think that a lot of the things being said are stereotypes of what feminists are like. I think a lot of the issues which affect women today have less to do with problems like men opening doors or whether or not we have to cook for our men. Thats just a really superficial understanding about what the problems are that women face today. In learning about feminism in school, I have found that none of them hate men. Most of them want to make relations better between the sexes and whenever theres a male in one of our classes, we applaud him for being confident and open enough to put himself in dialogue about gender issues. The classes I've taken have focused on issues like women's health, identity politics, intersections between race, gender, and sexual orientation, women's history, or real problems in the world that affect women on a daily basis. I think that women should live their lives however they want and that nobody should judge them if they want to be housewives or if they like to cook their partner dinner every night. I make my bf dinner all the time and try to make him happy as much as I can because I love him. I think that feminism is really about what is best for women, about what women all around the world need to be happy and healthy and that it shouldnt always be a comparison to what men have. For instance, if men have stricter rules in prison or the military, the point is not that we need to make things harder for women. We should be focusing on how to make womens lives better. I do think that men and women are different and that we can't always just try to make everything the same. Many times women have different needs and we cant just base those needs on a comparison with those of men. I think that feminists who think that porn is going to change anything are stupid and that they need to focus on real problems. I don't know if that made any sense. I just get frustrated that feminists have a really bad rep.

 

[macslut]

Quote:

Originally Posted by franimal For instance, if men have stricter rules in prison or the military, the point is not that we need to make things harder for women. We should be focusing on how to make womens lives better. I do think that men and women are different and that we can't always just try to make everything the same. Many times women have different needs and we cant just base those needs on a comparison with those of men. I think that feminists who think that porn is going to change anything are stupid and that they need to focus on real problems. I don't know if that made any sense. I just get frustrated that feminists have a really bad rep.

I study women's history (my thesis, in fact is going to be on the women's workforce during WW2) and some of the bad rap that feminist gets is very well deserved. What happens if a woman has stricter rules in the workplace (or whereever)....should we not make things harder for men? Many feminists (by all means not all) would say that it is sexist to place harder demands on women.

And you are wrong about the porn thing. And it is a real problem. How is being a stereotypical women (pretty face and body but no visible brains) liberating. That is playing into the man's fantasy. How is taking your clothes off for men's enjoyment (and some women unfortunatly who play in keeping their own gender down so they can be "one of the guys") liberating. I thought the fight was for women to be seen as equals and for something more than a pretty face. Now sexism and degradation are self sanctioned (and sometimes state sanctioned). It is really sad that this wave of feminism has succeeded in taking steps backward.

Pink said it best in Stupid Girls "What happened to the dreams of a girl President. She is dancing in a video next to 50cent" How sad.

 

[franimal]

I was just saying that we shouldn't always compare ourselves to men. Just because men might have harder standards in some aspect doesn't mean that women need to as well. Having different standards is ok sometimes and equality can still be acheived. It doesnt make sense to strive for equality when it puts women in worse positions. And with the porn thing, I do think that a lot of porn is degrading and enforcing beauty standards that appeal to men, but I was responding to a comment someone said earlier about feminists that are all about watching porn and strippers because it supports those women in those fields and because they find it liberating or something. I was just saying that supporting those things isn't serving to make women's lives better.

 

[macslut]

Quote:

Originally Posted by franimal I was just saying that we shouldn't always compare ourselves to men. Just because men might have harder standards in some aspect doesn't mean that women need to as well. Having different standards is ok sometimes and equality can still be acheived. It doesnt make sense to strive for equality when it puts women in worse positions. And with the porn thing, I do think that a lot of porn is degrading and enforcing beauty standards that appeal to men, but I was responding to a comment someone said earlier about feminists that are all about watching porn and strippers because it supports those women in those fields and because they find it liberating or something. I was just saying that supporting those things isn't serving to make women's lives better.

Oh ok, I misunderstood the comment about feminist concentrating on porn needing to work on real problems.

I highlighted the text that I still have questions about. Are you saying that it is ok to put men in worse positions but it isn't ok to sometimes put women in worse positions?

 

[redambition]

i like having doors held open for me and i always thank the person doing so

i also have no qualms about holding a door open for someone else (be they male or female) i do get some awkward moments when i hold a door open for a guy though

to me - that's feminism. being equal. i can hold a door open for you, you can do it for me. it works both ways.

i do have my "all men are (insert chosen expletive here)" days, but that's a different story.

 

[glamdoll]

If women want equal right we should start by prison.
I have seen cases where the female teacher had sex w her student
and had 5 yrs in prison and or parole.
While a male teacher did the exact same thing, and his student
was a bit older than the one the female teacher slept with.
He is facing 15-25
Crimes should be treated equal too.

 

[Beauty Mark]

ITA that crimes should be treated equally. As many things as possible should be treated equally. Even though I don't agree with the idea of a draft, I think if one should happen, women should be included. The problem is that there are many women who want to reap the benefits without suffering any of the consequences of equality as well.