Snoop Dogg: America's most lovable pimp...

[Raerae]

http://www.rollingstone.com/news/cov...le_pimp/page/1

Fun article, but, you ever wonder what the impact stuff like this has on us?

I think part of what caught my attention, was that I was listening to the oldies today at work, and an old beach boy's song came on, and one of the lines was having to do with going steady.

Comparitive to stuff like today's, "I wanna ---- you" (Insert which song title you wanna use) you" by Snoop/Akon.

Snoop doesn't even deny it in reference to his new group, The Nine Inch ---- (insert 4 letter word for male genetalia here), "We basically a male-chauvinist group, and all we do is R&B songs with a twist. I had a song called 'Bitch, I'm Gone, I'm Through With You.' I got another: 'Can You Control Your Ho?'"

Do you think the main-streaming of blatently male-chauvanistic music is making it more acceptable? On the flipside, are women becomming de-sensitized to it, because of it's overuse?

I just find it interesting how it's been such a long hard road to try (and I stress try, because I don't think were there yet) to break away from the idea that female sexuality isn't something bad, or to be feared, or sinful, and that we are more than just objects put here for men (at least in the states). Yet we so openly embrace music that throws it right back in our face.

 

[Hawkeye]

Hey Rae- hon, can I ask that you please edit some of the language? even if you put astricks on one letter. We do have some minors that do float around this board.

NOW what do I think? I love Snoop, I think he's a good guy once you get down to it. But I have a serious serious problem with the hip hop culture, the pop culture and the rap culture of today. I think that this culture really does demean women and it really is cheuvinistic and women aren't saying- no lets stop this!

I'm as liberal as the next person on this fact about sex and women but at the same time there comes a point when we as women must say- no do not call me a B*tch, do not call me a Ho, you will refer to me as my name. And we as women must realize that this culture has pretty much dictated that women are nothing more than materials to men.

Some of the lyrics, when I listen to it I can't believe they play it on the radio-it's not just fun sex whatever it's about degrading women. It's not about the language- because I can outswear a sailor- but I cannot believe that someone would want to degrade women and our society, and the people who have fought so hard to gain equal rights (Both blacks and women) are standing for it.

It just baffles me. It's like saying " Yeah you know those people who fought so hard to get us equal rights? Yeah it means nothing to us."

*sigh* I just have serious issues with the entire thing.

 

[Raerae]

Guess I'm not the only one feeling the effects...

I've been having these conversations a lot lateley with the girls at work, and I'm just getting over it.

Thats part of my peeve towards most religions, and their views on women. As well as my dislike of some cultural views on women.

But then I started looking at the music I've been buying/singing/dancing too etc, and was like I'm being such a hypocrit. Cuz in the end it's the same.

Edit: It's such a sticky subject too. Because on the same tolken I like my short skirts, and sex appeal. And I like attention from men. But at the same time, feel guilty? This isn't comming out right. So many confused/conflicting thoughts/emotions.

 

[Hawkeye]

Thanks for editing sweetie

I think a lot of people are. And the thing is that the hip hop culture, the rap culture, the pop culture they all promote, sex, violence etc- and I am a far cry from being a prude but they promote violence against women etc.

Neil Boortz (i'm an avid fan) has this to say regarding it from a while back:
Aug 29,2005
Well .. it happened again. More gunshots at some Hip Hop party .. this one in Miami. Hip Hot Big Shot Suge Knight was shot in the leg and is to undergo surgery today. Feeling sorry for Suge? Well, not exactly. It's not like he's lived some sort of a squeaky clean life up to now. Let's see ... there was the 1992 conviction for assault and weapons violation. Then he was jailed in 1996 for violating probation after a video camera caught him and some Hip Hop pals beating the crap out of a gang rival. Some have even suggested that Suge Knight was involved in the killing of Notorious B.I.G, although he's never been named as a suspect.
Are your children into this Hip Hop crap? Well ... just know that your kids are fawning over a culture of anger, resentment, predatory sex, disrespect for women and general violence. But, then, you don't have any control over your kids anyway, do you? Maybe all you can do is hope for the best.

This was on Nov 22, 2004
haven't heard anyone else express these sentiments .. but I think it could be said that the violence at this game mirrors the image that NBA players have been been promoting for years. Basketball is the sport of the Hip Hop culture, and the Hip Hop culture is one of predatory sex and wanton violence. Violence is celebrated, not condemned in Hip Hop. Menacing anger is the mood du jour. Try to find a picture of a Hip Hop "artist" where you see smiling faces. Smile? Are you kidding? We're mad! We're angry! We've been disrespected, and we're here to get our props!
Ron Artest .... the player who first waded into the stands? Well, you do know that Artest has a rap album out, don't you? In fact, Artest feels that his rap album is more important than his basketball. A few weeks ago he asked his coach for a month off to go on a promotional tour. Now he has all the time he needs to promote his rap abilities. Artest, along with several other players, has been suspended. He won't play another game this season. Ron Artest says that he doesn't think that David Stern has been fair in this situation. What a pity. Obviously he hasn't considered what his thuggery will do for his Hip Hop career.
Dec 5, 2003
Say what you will ... the Hip Hop culture is one of violence, drugs, predatory sex and disrespect for America
Some random links:
http://www.city-journal.org/html/13_3_how_hip_hop.html

ME again!!!! (The above was boortz)
I mean I think a lot of people are seeing this but those that want to defend it are blind to see what it is so blatently doing. And the sad part is we allow it. It's perfectly OK to allow music that denotes, abusing women, rape, drug use, gang violence, murder etc but God forbid if you show a nipple on TV (CBS). You show a nipple (Janet Jackson) you are the spawn of Satan but let us allow this stuff (above) because if we do speak out about it the black community will all claim us racists.

But in this hip hop culture- why is it that there are shootings or some form of violence at every hip hop or rap awards but at every other awards ceremonies there are nothing? Why is it celebrated to be shot or to be violent? Why are people told that if you kill people you get respect? You don't get respect you get fear and fear is a FAR cry from Respect.

I will go this far and I am expecting a huge outcry from some of the people I respect on here and truely admire but it has to be said: How is it this "respect" these people are going around saying they get by shooting people any different then the "respect" the white plantation owners demanded from their slaves?

There is none. The Respect is fear.

It just baffles me. And it's not just the blacks who go through this stupidity. It's the whites (Eminime anyone? Justin Timberlake? Country music (to quote one of my favorite Cash songs- I shot a man in Reno-just to watch him die)....if you look at the cultures they really do not differ that greatly- but they have different ways of achieving it.

And if it's not the music-it's the TV shows-I mean Wicked, Nip Tuck etc they do the same thing. Same as Six Feet Under, and the Sopranos.

But its OK because watching people die-its acceptable. It makes us tough. It puts hair on our cheast. :rollseyes:

Seriously I think there needs to be an ability to express what one wants to say-but a line must be drawn, and it can't be a governmental line it has to be from society-the grass roots saying- Enough.

Do not refer to me as a B****, do not refer to me as a H-, do not tell me to go F*** you or suck your c***. Do not tell me the only way to gain respect is through murder because I will not and I refuse to do it.

But-society will not do it.

edited because I have more to rant about LOL
I also have a problem with this culture to use the "N" word. It's not a good word but they use it. A white person says it-it's racist-a black person says it-it's a greeting- but that shouldn't be. Why? Because all the black leaders- they fought and some even lost their lives because that WORD ment something. It wasn't a greeting- it was a horrible racist word that denoted lynchings, slavery etc. And I'm always wondering with this WORD that is so often used among themselves- what would Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King say? Would he go up to a microphone and yell out whats up (WORD)!??! like many do now? No!

I'm sure he, and Coretta, Malcom and the others were thinking the same thing-that word should never be used. It's hurtful beyond words-everytime I think of that " I have a Dream Speech" By MLK I often think doesn't somewhere in there that means- " I don't want my little babies-my children to ever hear that word. I don't want them to know the fear behind that word, and I don't want them to be put in that situation!" I often think of that.

I just cannot fathom how anyone can use that word as lightly as it is used today. I mean it's like every person who has ever used the N word lightly (as in a greeting) may as well be the one who fired the shot that killed Dr. King.

It just baffles me beyond word.

*NOW I'm done offending people today and am now awaiting the flames and the people telling me I'm the spawn of satan*

 

[Raerae]

I dont really think Hip Hop is a black thing anymore. Yes they are part of the roots, and yes they do a lot of the albums. But it's also heavily a latino thing. And also a mainstream thing, as in there are plenty of men of other races that would do the same, but are more conscerned with not being seen as, "acting _____" (insert race of coice here).

 

[Raerae]

What about, "women have rights, but not respect" as kinda of the overall feeling that I'm getting at. Are we lucky to have that?

 

[Hawkeye]

Yeah I went off on one my crazy tangents LOL I do that from time to time.
ROFLMAO

A long time ago in history-there were some women I think it was the 20's who went on a hunger strike until they got the right to vote. We may as well have let them just die.

I mean we may as well go back to the dark ages. Women have acomplished so much-but we wont do anything about it.

Theres no point in having respect in this culture or this society anymore. We let ourselves turn into sex objects and allow men to do it to us.

Its one thing to want to dress sexy etc and enjoy the attention of men- but it's a totally different thing to dress slutty and do more than get attention from men.

Case in point: Not just the rap/hip hop culture but also our magazines- Cosmo anyone? Glamour? haha yeah even Allure is treating us all like bimbos

 

[Dizzy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raerae Do you think the main-streaming of blatently male-chauvanistic music is making it more acceptable? On the flipside, are women becomming de-sensitized to it, because of it's overuse?

I have serious issues with music that demeans women. And what I find even more disappointing is that there are scores of people who find this sort of behavior acceptable and embrace it. The fact that our radio stations play this is their way of condoning it. We have a generation who has practically been raised on this sort of music, what sort of effect do you think this will have on them in the future?

We can certainly see its effects on mainstream culture. Fifteen years ago it wasn't as common to see elementary school children calling each other "b*****s" and "h*s" or referring to each other as "pimps". It just really makes me wonder what our society is heading towards.

I think slowly we're allowing ourselves to be led backwards- do people really think that the women of the 20s fought for equality rights just so we could show up half-dressed in music videos that insinuate men should have control over women?

BTW: very interesting topic, RaeRae!

 

[Beauty Mark]

Quote:

A white person says it-it's racist-a black person says it-it's a greeting- but that shouldn't be. Why? Because all the black leaders- they fought and some even lost their lives because that WORD ment something. It wasn't a greeting- it was a horrible racist word that denoted lynchings, slavery etc.

I'm not defending the ideology, but there's something about owning a word, reclaiming it. A lot of people think it's good for the group which the word was used against to reclaim it. You can see it sometimes within women's groups. I believe the Vagina Monologues even has a monologue dedicated to reclaiming a certain word.

I think that it's very dangerous, because most people aren't using the words, thinking "Yeah, we're going to give it a positive spin!"

I think we are becoming desensitized to it. I think worse, women are buying into these roles and allowing it to be okay even more than it was. We don't have Salt N Pepa anymore

 

[Dizzy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raerae Edit: It's such a sticky subject too. Because on the same tolken I like my short skirts, and sex appeal. And I like attention from men. But at the same time, feel guilty? This isn't comming out right. So many confused/conflicting thoughts/emotions.

This is really understandable, though. Think about it: Generally, as little girls we were taught to dress in a certain way; our shirts touched the top of our pants, our skirts were knee-length, and our tops didn't have sayings way beyond our years embossed on them. We were taught to be "pretty", most little girls are taught to have a certain modesty about them. Afterall, a small child isn't something we want as a sex symbol.

Then these little girls grow up and have these images of half-dressed women with 'perfect' bodies who have learned that they get attention by wearing short-skirts and mini-shirts *everywhere*. This completely contradicts everything we were taught as children, hence the reason for the confusion. Who's right- the people who are bombarding you with these images (who are probably a well-educated team of marketers) or the people who raised you (who, typically, people feel are just resisting adaptation to current society)?

It's enough to confuse anyone, really.

 

[IslandGirl77]

I used to dig Snoop, back in the day. Not really feeling him now. I honestly don't know how a married man and father hangs with pimps and promotes groups like that. I honestly at this point am not feeling today's hip hop. It sucks. There is no more lyrical content. People now only talk about degrading women, their money and cars. It just drowns out all the people who acutally have something positive to say. Hip hop didn't start this way. And these new rappers are more and more degrading women and it seems these chicks dont' care. Like it's cool to be a video chick and have dudes disrepcting you.

 

[Raerae]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dizzy It's enough to confuse anyone, really.

Well I think more of it is comming from the kinda thinking, "If you don't want to be treated like an object, dont dress like one." Granted there is a difference imo between sexy/trashy, but regardless, too a lot of people it's the same thing.

I guess I have trouble with the whole, why can't a woman, be a woman, be attractive, be confident in her sex appeal, w/out it being seen as something negative. Wheras men can do all of the above, but it's always positive. And music like this just reinforces that set of ideals.

I dunno, I'm having a hard time getting my thoughts out how I want them on this one.

 

[*Stargazer*]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raerae I guess I have trouble with the whole, why can't a woman, be a woman, be attractive, be confident in her sex appeal, w/out it being seen as something negative.

She can. Sometimes. Unfortunately, the world we live in doesn't always permit you to act who you want without the judgment, right or wrong, of others. In a perfect world, actions would speak louder than appearance, but they don't.


The problem is that this type of music and the attitude that is pervasive among this musical culture encourage misogyny and physical violence. And as much as you can say that its "art" or purely for "entertainment"value, you can't deny that young children ARE impressionable. And honestly, you can't blame the youth of America, whom this type of music is marketed to, for buying into the culture when they see two ways out of poverty and the slums. Become a pro athlete or a rap star. How do you become a rap star? With street cred. Which leads to an emulation of this violent and misogynistic culture. I think Bill Cosby has ranted about this once or twice.

And don't even get me started on the rich white boys that emulate this culture. It makes me cringe, but I think its a different discussion and argument from the one at hand with the problems the rap culture creates within the less fortunate youth.

 

[Dizzy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raerae I guess I have trouble with the whole, why can't a woman, be a woman, be attractive, be confident in her sex appeal, w/out it being seen as something negative. Wheras men can do all of the above, but it's always positive. And music like this just reinforces that set of ideals.

Whether we like to admit it or not, American society is very driven by the media. Think of video's like Snoop's- women get the idea that it's fine to be seen as nothing more than a sexual object and hence believe that dressing like trash, which many in these videos women do, is the way to go about it. Men see this, then see women who emulate this, and feel that it's fine to treat women the way they're asking to be treated with that sort of behavior.

Is this oversimplified? Oh yeah, but I think it's the truth. Fifty years ago could you imagine having the rules (or lack of) we do now? There was uproar over Marilyn Monroe's scene involving the subway grate, can you imagine what their reaction would have been to simulated sex scenes onstage at concerts with music laced with ill-concealed innuendos?

 

[Beauty Mark]

Quote:

I guess I have trouble with the whole, why can't a woman, be a woman, be attractive, be confident in her sex appeal, w/out it being seen as something negative. Wheras men can do all of the above, but it's always positive. And music like this just reinforces that set of ideals.

What I see in music videos and in music isn't women owning their sexuality as much. I don't know how else to put it, but they don't seem to have control over it anymore. It's like all they're doing is working for the guy and not just being "To hell with everyone, I know I'm hot" type sexuality. I hope that makes somewhat sense. That's my personal problem with music/music videos.

Kanye West isn't perfect, but I think he's a step in the right direction. I haven't heard the new Nas or Jay-Z, but I'm hoping they're good.

Probably the saddest thing of all is that there are artists out there who are producing GREAT hip hop, but they're underground. It's rhythmically good, lyrically good. Why do marketing folks want to keep hip hop at this level?

 

[Hawkeye]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beauty Mark Why do marketing folks want to keep hip hop at this level?

because-unfortunately it sells. and it sells very very well.

 

[Beauty Mark]

I know it sells, but I don't think most people are listening to hip hop for the lyrics any more. They're listening to it for the beat. If there's other stuff out there with non-misogynistic lyrics and equally good beats, they should get equal airplay/attention.

Unless, of course, it's a grander marketing scheme (geez, this sounds like conspiracy.) Hip hop nowadays is selling a lifestyle of expensive jewelry, cars, clothes, liquor, and so on.

 

[Painkiller]

Ok, be nice to the n00b, now...

Quote:

Originally Posted by youbeabitch Its one thing to want to dress sexy etc and enjoy the attention of men- but it's a totally different thing to dress slutty and do more than get attention from men.

Where do you draw the line between sexy and slutty? It seems like that's a very subjective thing. In my opinion, clothing isn't what matters, it's the intention behind the clothing, otherwise it turns the whole "don't be afraid to be yourself and express yourself" outlook into a hypocritical farce.

What if one woman's personal taste in clothing is seen as slutty by another? What if, say, one woman enjoys walking around in microminis, cleavage-baring tops, and 4-inch heels? What if she does this, not because it garners male attention, but because it's something she loves to wear (yes, I know the odds are, a woman dressed like this is probably a slutalicious attention whore, but bear with me )?

Surely, as makeup lovers, most of you have been called shallow, vain, image-obsessed, or been accused of wearing makeup to impress other people. I know I have. But why do you wear makeup, really? In my case, it's because it's something I love, it's an amazing art form, and it's plain fun.

So basically, I don't see what's wrong with dressing the way one wants to dress, or enjoying attention. What I see as awfully, terribly wrong is conforming to other people's desires, making most of your decisions out of fear of social disapproval, etc. The way I see it, something like this:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dizzy Generally, as little girls we were taught to dress in a certain way [...] We were taught to be "pretty", most little girls are taught to have a certain modesty about them.

[no offense meant to the poster, just highlighting this particular idea which is still quite common thinking among a lot of people]

is almost as bad as teaching little girls (via negative role models) to dress like baby prostitutes. This particular point of view doesn't sexualize little kids, sure, but it teaches them to conform to what other people want from them, and it's just as image-centric as any Bratz doll campaign.

 

[Hawkeye]

First of all,
Welcome to the discussion Painkiller!

This is where you draw the line (or at least where I draw the line)

If you want to wear a miniskirt- then you wear the mini skirt- no problem, and if you want to wear the heels wear the heels but the shirt- make it conservative (IE dont let your boobs hang over the place) and dont wear the fishnets.

Where I draw the line is I look at it like I do the face (believe it or not) if you wear one item that is sexy then downplay the rest. If you should walk out wearing all 3 items I have no qualms whatsoever to saying the person is dressed slutty.

Just as one would wear the face- if one should play up both the eyes and the lips then it would be necessary to say that the person looks like a clown and is competeing for attention. EX: Smokey black eyes and red lips and red blush.= bad makeup.

However, if one wears Smokey eyes and a nude lip = its OK
Red lips and a neutral eye=OK

See what I'm saying? That's where you draw the line.

 

[amoona]

Ok this is why I hate hip hop/rap and don't listen to any of it. I seriously don't listen to the radio because even the edited versions are trashy. The first time I heard of this song (only a few weeks ago) my friend had me listen to it and I felt like I needed to take a shower afterwards!

I really don't see that as art, and it's sad to see what hip hop has been turned into by people like Snoop Dog and this guy Akon. I mean I honestly don't know the history of hip hop nor was I ever into it or anything but I know from watching MTV that at one point hip hop was considered art. I know the lyrics to songs weren't always about wanting to sleep with a stripper.

I don't understand how any woman can be into these songs. To me it seems like if you're a woman and you enjoy this you have no self-respect. And if you're a guy and enjoy this you have no respect for women. BUT I guess people who are into these songs don't see them as disrespectful so those ideas don't apply for them.

Someone said he has children, does he happen to have a daughter? If he does I wonder what he'd think if some guy treated his daughter the way he treats women in his lyrics. Or better yet, what he would think of someone spoke to his mother in that way.