The devil is in the...big box retailer?

[Raerae]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shimmer :shrug:So Cal people DO care

Both the cities discussed in that article, are not in So Cal

NorCal, and SoCal are like two different worlds.

 

[Shimmer]

Of course.

 

[s_prev]

Michael Moore is for lack of better words, a moron. I lost all respect for him after "Bowling for Columbine."quote]

i cant believe what im seeing, you lost respect for him, what about all the ppl that were at the gun conf...he opens ppls eyes....me and some friends went to ohio and were in an ihop and got into a convo with the table next to us after they found out we were canadian...and they were asking us if it was true, and we were explainin the healthcare to them...you pay taxes anyways...if you understood how little taxes we pay, or how much we get back depending then i dont thin you would say that. many americans are clearly in the dark about the situation...you dont wanna pay a cpl hundred a year in taxes, yet your willing to pay out 60000 for a finger etc...i cant believe some of the comments in this place. i dont know you so i cant say your opinions would change but i imagine some might, if you were like me and got admitted to a hospital the minute you walked in the door, spend 3 weeks there with multiple tests and great care, and then leave without paying a cent. its a beautiful thing to have and i wouldnt want anything else

 

[Shimmer]

Most of the people with free public healthcare who have posted in this thread have actually talked about long waits, to the point of imminent death prior to treatment, instead of relating experiences like what you're discussing.
Quite interesting.

 

[Tash]

Plenty of "Ma & Pa" stores compete against Walmart. Hell, my town has a Walmart, Target, Home Depot, and Best Buy and we still manage to have Ma & Pa companies all over our town. From hardware stores, to little boutiques, to family owned electronic stores. Funny thing is, Home Depot and Best Buy are actually about to go out of business in my town because THEY can't compete with the little family owned stores.

 

[Tash]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tash Michael Moore is for lack of better words, a moron. I lost all respect for him after "Bowling for Columbine."quote] i cant believe what im seeing, you lost respect for him, what about all the ppl that were at the gun conf...he opens ppls eyes....me and some friends went to ohio and were in an ihop and got into a convo with the table next to us after they found out we were canadian...and they were asking us if it was true, and we were explainin the healthcare to them...you pay taxes anyways...if you understood how little taxes we pay, or how much we get back depending then i dont thin you would say that. many americans are clearly in the dark about the situation...you dont wanna pay a cpl hundred a year in taxes, yet your willing to pay out 60000 for a finger etc...i cant believe some of the comments in this place. i dont know you so i cant say your opinions would change but i imagine some might, if you were like me and got admitted to a hospital the minute you walked in the door, spend 3 weeks there with multiple tests and great care, and then leave without paying a cent. its a beautiful thing to have and i wouldnt want anything else

And I don't have to pay a cent at all either. There's a BIG difference between bad insurance and good insurance. I have yet to ever pay a single cent for any medical care. Ever.

 

[Beauty Mark]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tash Michael Moore is for lack of better words, a moron. I lost all respect for him after "Bowling for Columbine."quote] i cant believe what im seeing, you lost respect for him, what about all the ppl that were at the gun conf...he opens ppls eyes....me and some friends went to ohio and were in an ihop and got into a convo with the table next to us after they found out we were canadian...and they were asking us if it was true, and we were explainin the healthcare to them...you pay taxes anyways...if you understood how little taxes we pay, or how much we get back depending then i dont thin you would say that. many americans are clearly in the dark about the situation...you dont wanna pay a cpl hundred a year in taxes, yet your willing to pay out 60000 for a finger etc...i cant believe some of the comments in this place. i dont know you so i cant say your opinions would change but i imagine some might, if you were like me and got admitted to a hospital the minute you walked in the door, spend 3 weeks there with multiple tests and great care, and then leave without paying a cent. its a beautiful thing to have and i wouldnt want anything else

While I'm a big believer in universal health care or something like it, MM is notorious for messing up facts or manipulating quotes to seem like they were said at different times. His tactics are often polarizing. There is so much info on how awful his documentaries are. If he wants to help out, he needs to approach it with some dignity. By no means am I a fan of hers, but he needs to behave as Angelina Jolie does when she does her humanitarian stuff. I feel she is having more of an impact in her quiet way than MM does by yelling and adding "humor" to really serious, sad situations. I think he might turnoff the moderates, who are the people he needs to reach out to. The one extreme is on his side (well, the side he supports), the other is totally against. Most people fall somewhere in the middle.

I know people who live in countries with state health care. There's red tape and long wait lines. It's by far from a perfect system. Perhaps better than the current one in the USA, but I know it's not perfect. That's one of the problems with Michael Moore; he idealizes things and makes it so extreme. Perhaps show that while things aren't perfect in other countries, they're still better

 

[frocher]

Life is imperfect. I think looking for a perfect healthcare system is futile. I would settle for one that would cover most of our citizens most of the time, regardless of what tax bracket you are in.

It angers me to hear of a hard working family who has gone bankrupt because they must pay for a child with cancer, or some other grave illness. There has to be more we can do to reform our system to make it more equitable.

 

[Tash]

Quote:

Originally Posted by frocher Life is imperfect. I think looking for a perfect healthcare system is futile. I would settle for one that would cover most of our citizens most of the time, regardless of what tax bracket you are in. It angers me to hear of a hard working family who has gone bankrupt because they must pay for a child with cancer, or some other grave illness. There has to be more we can do to reform our system to make it more equitable.

I blame the insurance companies for that sort of thing. I understand they're a business and just trying to make money, but it still irritates me to no end.

 

[Tash]

Quote:

Originally Posted by s_prev While I'm a big believer in universal health care or something like it, MM is notorious for messing up facts or manipulating quotes to seem like they were said at different times. His tactics are often polarizing. There is so much info on how awful his documentaries are. If he wants to help out, he needs to approach it with some dignity. By no means am I a fan of hers, but he needs to behave as Angelina Jolie does when she does her humanitarian stuff. I feel she is having more of an impact in her quiet way than MM does by yelling and adding "humor" to really serious, sad situations. I think he might turnoff the moderates, who are the people he needs to reach out to. The one extreme is on his side (well, the side he supports), the other is totally against. Most people fall somewhere in the middle. I know people who live in countries with state health care. There's red tape and long wait lines. It's by far a perfect system. Perhaps better than the current one in the USA, but I know it's not perfect. That's one of the problems with M

Taking this from a post in another message board I made. But yes, I agree with you about him.

Quote:

MOORE: I offered $10,000 to anybody who could find a single fact in Fahrenheit 9/11 that was wrong. MOORE: No, of course not. Every fact in my films is true.

http://www.davekopel.org/terror/59Deceits.pdf
http://www.hardylaw.net/Truth_About_Bowling.html
http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/i....asp?indid=899
http://www.slate.com/id/2102723/
http://www.spinsanity.org/post.html?...3689806628 37
http://moorewatch.com/index.php/weblog/f911
http://www.mooreexposed.com/911.html
http://www.spinsanity.org/columns/20031016b.html

 

[Kimberleigh]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tash Plenty of "Ma & Pa" stores compete against Walmart. Hell, my town has a Walmart, Target, Home Depot, and Best Buy and we still manage to have Ma & Pa companies all over our town. From hardware stores, to little boutiques, to family owned electronic stores. Funny thing is, Home Depot and Best Buy are actually about to go out of business in my town because THEY can't compete with the little family owned stores.

Well, I guess your town is either a) really big and offers more than what you are suggesting in "big box" stores, b) a college town that HATES big box stores. At any rate, I'm guessing your town is an anomaly. However, good for your town! It's too bad more towns aren't like this by fighting back.

 

[Raerae]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kimberleigh Well, I guess your town is either a) really big and offers more than what you are suggesting in "big box" stores, b) a college town that HATES big box stores. At any rate, I'm guessing your town is an anomaly. However, good for your town! It's too bad more towns aren't like this by fighting back.

An anomaly? Realistically, I think more of it has to do with a towns overall disposable income than anything else. I lived in Santa Barbara for several years, and we had ALL of those stores there. Home Depot, Walmart, CostCo, Linens'N'Things, Bed Bath and Beyond, Borders and Books, Best Buy, Circut City, etc, etc, etc... And there was plenty of local Mom and Pop , only 1 location, stores that sold the same stuff you can get at Walmart. And then there were lots of higher end stores.

Santa Barbara is a college town. But I really don't think that college towns are inherantly opposed to big box stores. If anything, they embrace them because a large portion of the student body has very little disposable income (anyone remember top ramen for breakfast/lunch/dinner?). So big box stores are perfect for letting poor college students working 2 jobs to pay off student loans, while going to school full time, to get things on the cheap. I know i picked up a DVD player/surround sound sterio for our house for like $100.00 back when I lived there from like Target. And we'd do roomate trips to CostCo/Target to buy staples for the house in bulk to save $. Not suprising, most all the Big Box stores were located in Goleta, which is just a few minutes from Isla Vista, which was the local college city slum.

But on the flip side, there are also a lot of college students that have a lot of disposable income, they don't work, and get lots of money from Mom and Dad. Combined with the tourists that come to Santa Barbara, there was a healthy economy in downtown SB on Statestreet and all the side streets around it. These streets were lined with Mom and Pop stores local to just Santa Barbara, selling local SB stuff. Not to mention higher end chain stores like BeBe, Limited, Nordstroms, Macy's, Cache, Express, Nine West, etc. Stores that cater to the crowds that don't mind spending $100+ on a pair of pants, or shoes. Or in some cases $2-$300+ on their denim jeans.

It just comes down to money. Towns that are poor, and have no outside money comming into them from tourists (who wants to visit some po-dunk farming town with a population of 5000 in the middle of farmland USA anyways?) are going to lose out to big box stores. Since there just isn't enough money for people to shop elsewhere, when most people living there are just scrapping by. And in towns where there is a lot of money, Big box stores will have little effect, other than helping out the towns low income families.

 

[Tash]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kimberleigh Well, I guess your town is either a) really big and offers more than what you are suggesting in "big box" stores, b) a college town that HATES big box stores. At any rate, I'm guessing your town is an anomaly. However, good for your town! It's too bad more towns aren't like this by fighting back.

College students LOVE cheap stores. And my old town is only around 40,000 people or so. BUT, it's a very wealthy town with a lot of politicians and semi-famous (in Wisconsin) people live.

 

[Kimberleigh]

You know, at this point, I'm just going to have to agree to disagree. I've lived in Indianapolis (not NYC, but a large metropolis that can have the big box stores and the independent stores), my hometown of Greenwood (a fancy-schmancy suburb where all the Eli Lilly corporate employees live, where the median house price is well above "normal"), the rural Indiana town where my husband teaches (whose claim to fame is supplying the limestone to pretty much every building in DC and NYC and the population is around 15k-20k), and a state college city (where the population skyrockets by about 40k when school is in session). The only place that I've lived that couldn't maintain mom & pop stores in the same community was the rural place because when a big box moves in, the mom & pop's can't compete. Period. And I just can't EVER see this being a good thing nor will I ever try. We can go 'round and 'round about why this is, and how you (collectively) disagree with this assessment. Basically all we're doing is throwing out our anecdotal stories and beliefs.

 

[Raerae]

I don't think anyone was disagreeing with you that rural area's have a hard time maintaining Mom and Pop type stores when a BigBox retailer moves in. I think that was the point. You need to have a certain amount of people with enough money to keep spending at smaller shop's vs haveing EVERYONE shopping at the BigBox. And when most people are broke, it's pretty obvious they are going to shop where price's are lowest.