Time to really stir the puddin': Fess up: What do you REALLY think of Cindy Sheehan?

[Hawkeye]

I just want to know your views on her. That's all I really want

Not about the war (God that is exhuasted- the horse is dead)- but about her personally.

I won't hide my feelings on her. I think she's just using her sons death to get attention. I hate to say it but yes, I do.

I mean if she really (IMHO ONLY) felt pain for the death of her son would she really start a protest at a Vietnam Vet memorial? Or would she really let her protesters really spraypaint all over the capital? Or would she really support Hugo Chavez? Or would she really buy property next to President Bush saying she is a Katrina Evacuee then by the time the seller realizes who *REALLY* is buying it is too late?

I"m not even sure she really has a grasp on what she is saying: Here is a sample of a speach she gave back in 2005:

"If George Bush believes his rhetoric and his bulls__t, that this is a war for freedom and democracy, that he is spreading freedom and democracy, does he think every person he kills makes Iraq more free?"

"The whole world is damaged. Our humanity is damaged. If he thinks that it's so important for Iraq to have a U.S.-imposed sense of freedom and democracy, then he needs to sign up his two little party-animal girls. They need to go to this war."

"We want our country back and, if we have to impeach everybody from George Bush down to the person who picks up dog s__t in Washington, we will impeach all those people."

OK Let me tear out two little pieces here just to show why I feel she has no idea what's going on:
1) A parent does not sign up their child to go to war. If this happens then tell me- Why oh why did Cindy sign her son up to go to war? Oh wait! That's right- he CHOSE to go! How silly of me! But it's OK. Because HE chose to go, then President Bush needs to sign up his daughters to go. Gotchya.
2) Impeach everybody from Bush all the way down to the guy who picks up dog S***. Anybody care to tell this woman about impeachments?
3) Her language. The moment the language comes out that discredits everything that woman ever said.


I mean the more this woman opens her mouth the more I dispise her. I feel bad that her son died. That must kill any mother. But then to take that and do all this crazy crap doesn't help matters. And it's even worse when you go so crazy your own family distances themselves from you.

I dunno- I just think she as a person is horrid. I just- yeah. I don't know what she plans on gaining from this- but it's ridiculous with her.

OK I know I'm gonna be torn apart for my opinions but you know I'll respect yours if you respect mine

 

[Beauty Mark]

Re: Time to really stir the puddin': Fess up: What do you REALLY think of Cindy Sheehan?

Just because a woman has a son die in a war doesn't make her a hero or a saint.

With that said- it makes me uncomfortable personally that she so anti-war because she lost her son. Her son chose to be in the army, and even more, he basically chose to be in Iraq. There's nothing to be argued about it. It's sad that he died, but he didn't die under unusual circumstances because of being in Iraq. I mean- he didn't die, because the soldiers were poorly equipped or something that the US gov't has control over. War is ugly and terrible. People die, and it's sad.

Why wasn't she out there from the get-go, being anti-war? Her son, as well as anyone in Iraq, faces the potential of being killed. A mother of a child in the military should know that. I think she initially was feeling pain and upset, but then she discovered how much she really liked being famous and having people interview and talk to her.

I hate when people talk about signing kids up, too. Personally, I think the argument should be, "Would you be willing to go over there yourself to fight, if you were of the appropriate age?" Also, impeaching doesn't kick a person out of office.

I've been against the US's war in Iraq and I still am, but she makes me very uncomfortable and I think she's ruining legitimacy for that view. Some of her initial actions were- kind of crazy but more acceptable to me. Now she just looks like a famewhore. So many people are looking for their 15 minutes of fame. She seems to be one of them, and despite my own views on Iraq, it's really, really disgusting that she chooses her son's death to capitalize on it.

 

[Dizzy]

I can't imagine what she thinks she's doing by campaigning like she is. What is she trying to do- bring home the troops or protest her son's death? I've always thought that she's blurred the lines between the two. I think it's so disgraceful to carry on like she does in her son's name when he was buried for two years without a headstone- then she tried to blame that on the Casualty Officer that was helping them!

She's justified in how she feels, I'm not saying anything about that. But she has handled everything since with such disrespect. I mean, she's got a child whose name will probably be up on a memorial similar to the Wall one day, how can she not understand the inapropriateness of starting a protest there?! I understand the freedom of speech applies to her, too, but doesn't she realize that this isn't going to get her point across, this is just going to piss off all of the AD servicemembers and Vets?

But most of all, doesn't she realize that nothing she does now will bring her son back? All of this protesting, all of this campaigning and rabblerousing, none of it will change his descision to join the military. My brother and I were watching CNN one day and it had a segment about her, he turned to me and said something along the lines of "if you EVER act like she does when I die, I'll come back and break your knees" (He's AD Air Force). It just makes me wonder, what would her son have said to all of this?

It's a shame, but he made his own descision. And she's just tarnishing his memory.

 

[LisaR]

I find it interesting that you wanted to discuss her personality but not within the context of "the war - that horse is dead" and yet, the speech you quoted was about the war. Two of your three main points were about the war and the third is indirectly about it as well.

I'll take the war out of it. Other than her politics and the death of her son, I don't really know much about the personality of this woman. I know firsthand the grief of burying a child. It can make you do or say things you never thought you would. It is a pain that's almost physical. The anger, a rage. MHO is that she is doing whatever she is compelled to do to not face her grief or deal with it. Her son dies...BOOM, she's on the trail to Washington. Avoidance.

I make no judgement on her personality. I don't know her. But I can identify with her and her possible need to escape reality and vent anger in whatever way she can short of physically hurting herself or others.
____________

Regarding the other poster's view on whether or not Sheehan is "ruining the legitimacy" toward the anti-war movement regarding "the US's war in Iraq", with or without Sheehan, it'll never happen. The movement can only grow thanks to George W., Cheney and a whole host of idiots on capitol hill.

 

[macslut]

Re: Time to really stir the puddin': Fess up: What do you REALLY think of Cindy Sheehan?

Lisa I agree with you in that I also feel that she is trying not to deal with the grief that she feels. And I am so sorry that you have firsthand experience of the death of a child. It does give you insight that most probably could not have.

I feel so sorry for her that I really can't dislike her. I think she needs to get some professional help to help her deal with the grief. I can understand being antiwar after the death of a child but to stand outside Bush's Crawford ranch and demand he come out and tell her why her child died is over the top.

That being said, she has gone into politics. She should not be immune from critisim (sp?) which some feel she is. She is not a saint.

As for a son, he was killed on his second tour to Iraq and from what I understand became a hero in the process.

 

[Beauty Mark]

Quote:

I think it's so disgraceful to carry on like she does in her son's name when he was buried for two years without a headstone- then she tried to blame that on the Casualty Officer that was helping them!

That bothers me, too. Her argument about the Casualty Officer- if she would've made that a focus about how the dead are treated, I think she'd have a better platform. That's provided that the story is true, of course. The burial stuff people take very seriously and would have a fit if they knew that a Casualty Officer wasn't helping.


Quote:

Originally Posted by LisaR I find it interesting that you wanted to discuss her personality but not within the context of "the war - that horse is dead" and yet, the speech you quoted was about the war. Two of your three main points were about the war and the third is indirectly about it as well. I'll take the war out of it. Other than her politics and the death of her son, I don't really know much about the personality of this woman. I know firsthand the grief of burying a child. It can make you do or say things you never thought you would. It is a pain that's almost physical. The anger, a rage. MHO is that she is doing whatever she is compelled to do to not face her grief or deal with it. Her son dies...BOOM, she's on the trail to Washington. Avoidance. I make no judgement on her personality. I don't know her. But I can identify with her and her possible need to escape reality and vent anger in whatever way she can short of physically hurting herself or others. ____________ Regarding the other poster's view on whether or not Sheehan is "ruining the legitimacy" toward the anti-war movement regarding "the US's war in Iraq", with or without Sheehan, it'll never happen. The movement can only grow thanks to George W., Cheney and a whole host of idiots on capitol hill.

I don't think we're going to be leaving Iraq, but I don't think having someone on board the anti-war movement who is so ineloquent helps. It's like when PETA does something crazy and makes animal activism look insane. You have a chance to reach out to the moderates a little and then one over the top move changes things from neutral to disgust. I understand grieving is hard and different for everyone. It wasn't a child but my mother died suddenly and when I was quite young. However, I don't know how much that excuses her behavior.

Because I used to be very interested and active in the anti-war movement, I will say that there are people on both sides that make arguments that are so nonsensical and they aren't personally touched by war. Also, activism isn't always noble.

Do you think, instead of questioning her actions because they may be grief-driven, that it's more appropriate to consider the exploitation of the anti-war leaders? She's being enabled by someone, in some way. I think if so many anti-war people didn't give her legitimacy, she would fade away. If someone, anyone, would say "Look, it's great that you want to help, but you need to take time for yourself and your family," she may have stopped already. I cannot imagine that it's healthy to try to throw yourself that much into a cause.

 

[lemurian]

Re: Time to really stir the puddin': Fess up: What do you REALLY think of Cindy Sheehan?

She's an outspoken idiot, which is a horrible combination of qualities. When I see her face or hear her name I turn the channel. She is scum.

 

[Dizzy]

BeautyMark: Snopes.com has the comments and everything about the Casualty Officer.

Quote:

Do you think, instead of questioning her actions because they may be grief-driven, that it's more appropriate to consider the exploitation of the anti-war leaders?

There's definately a boatload of people egging her on and encouraging her. I sincerely doubt that she decided to start this crusade on her own. Those people are the lowest of low by capitalizing on a mother's grief like they have.

She just bothers me so much because, to me, she's letting her son be used as propaganda. He's not fodder for signs and protests, he was a person who did his job admirably, and was killed while helping to rescue American troops.

Also, she uses names of other servicemembers who've died in her crusade. Let her protest, let her grieve, let her do her own thing (even if I don't agree with it)- but leave other families out of it. Quite a few families have requested that she not mention their names or the names of their deceased family members in her demonstration, the fact that they've even had to do that suggests to me that she doesn't really care about bringing our troops home and doesn't respect them or their families, she just wants some sort of revenge on the government. I think she's someone who really needs to just stop for a minute and think of everyone and just grieve for herself, out of the public's eye.

 

[Hawkeye]

Re: Time to really stir the puddin': Fess up: What do you REALLY think of Cindy Sheehan?

Quote:

I find it interesting that you wanted to discuss her personality but not within the context of "the war - that horse is dead" and yet, the speech you quoted was about the war. Two of your three main points were about the war and the third is indirectly about it as well.

Lisa-
The reason for this is because there are so many discussion on the board regarding the war and the fact that emotions can run pretty high on it. I don't mind someone expressing their dislike for it (Like beauty mark did) or their pro opinions of it- I just don't want it to really get into an all out brawl over the war and not about the topic (which is Sheehan).

Quote:

Lemurian- She's an outspoken idiot, which is a horrible combination of qualities. When I see her face or hear her name I turn the channel. She is scum.

Won't argue with you there

Quote:

I've been against the US's war in Iraq and I still am, but she makes me very uncomfortable and I think she's ruining legitimacy for that view. Some of her initial actions were- kind of crazy but more acceptable to me. Now she just looks like a famewhore. So many people are looking for their 15 minutes of fame. She seems to be one of them, and despite my own views on Iraq, it's really, really disgusting that she chooses her son's death to capitalize on it.

Beautymark-
That's how I'm feeling. I dunno. I mean it's only natural to grieve in different ways- you know? I mean in the beginning I could understand-genuinely how someone loosing their son would be placing the blame on the one who sent them there. I would to! But then she just got crazier and crazier.

I think you also said (and I am blind I can't find it

Or maybe someone else said it) but she is really really doing a bad thing for the anti war movement. It's so funny to me because you have one side full of crazy, defacing, disrespectful (painting steps on capital building), cruel (starting a march at the Vietnam vet memorial) people on one side, then on the other side you have people who are just as crazy and fanatical? But we never hear anything about them.

I mean I guess it's just strange to me because we're seeing this and to me it's like if these people want peace why are they doing this? Why can't they try to do things in - I dunno- a peaceful manner? That would make the most sense? But I dunno I personally feel that she is undermining the entire thing she wishes to accomplish. And I also feel that if she acts like this- we're all seeing it-is it going to show others that it is acceptable to do this? I mean I dunno. It just makes me question the entire movement.

I mean she does some pretty crazy things. NO regard for anyone but herself it seems. And I seriously wonder if she will go so far one day to cause a major disaster all in the name of bringing the people home and bush lied people died propaganda. I dunno.

 

[Shimmer]

Re: Time to really stir the puddin': Fess up: What do you REALLY think of Cindy Sheehan?

I loathe Cindy Sheehan on a number of levels.
She claims to want to revere the memory of her son...yet...her son, as BM said, CHOSE the army. They aren't kidding in BCT when they say, particularly to males, but also to females "This is not a joke. This training is for you and your survival. You WILL eventually use it." I went to BCT back in 2000, before Iraq, Afghanistan, 9/11, etc. They said it then, and I guarantee they said it to her son.
HE CHOSE THAT LIFE.
Honor him and his memory by honoring his choice, and quit spitting on me, my family, and others like us by saying and doing the things you're doing.
She'll never read that, nor hear it, nor honor it, because it's not something she's open to hearing. If it was in support of her, she'd be all about it, but because it's against her, she ignores it.
Bush met with her. Bush spoke with her, she was glad for that.
Something changed, she wasn't happy about it. You can't claim to be a "family for peace" when the very REASON for being a soldier is war. Soldiers aren't bred for pretties y'all. They're there as a line of defense for war.
The President has stated, repeatedly, that she has the right to say as she wishes, and that's what the Constitution guarantees her, which, for him, I think, is the best way to handle it.
Her logic is faulty because pulling all the soldiers home, while something I'd love to do, would TOTALLY negate everything because it would leave Iraq in shambles. Anyone who can't see that is blind.

 

[*Stargazer*]

Re: Time to really stir the puddin': Fess up: What do you REALLY think of Cindy Sheehan?

The fact that she can, knowing that her son supported what he was doing, misrepresent his feelings and use his death in a manner that he probably wouldn't have supported is a disgrace.

I understand grief and how it affects people differently, but she has all but abandoned her other children and her husband (ex now, I think) to go on this crusade and I think that is shameful.

 

[MAC_Whore]

Re: Time to really stir the puddin': Fess up: What do you REALLY think of Cindy Sheehan?

Her son chose that life. Her son chose that career. A difficult and noble career. Her son even had the option of being a conscientious objecter if he wanted to, but he did not take that course of action. He believed in what he was doing. Cindy Sheehan is ignoring that.

Her son was a man. A man with a heart and mind capable of making the decisions he made. Cindy Sheehan is not honoring that.

Cindy Sheehan is using her son. Plain and simple. What a way to dishonour the life and death of her son. She makes me want to retch every time I see her. Whilst she may have started with the best of intentions, her behaviour has metastacized into a circus show that has her inability to deal with grief in the center ring.

Her behaviour is akin to her dumping garbage on her son's grave. They are both equally disrespectful IMO.