Revised Mac animal testing policy? :-((

[katred]

I know that this isn't a make-or-break issue for many cosmetic fans, but since it's something I take seriously and I know that others here do, I thought I'd share this piece from phyrra.net:

http://www.phyrra.net/2012/03/heartbroken-by-mac.html

A few months back, Mac's parent company, Estee Lauder, reversed their long-standing policy of not conducting animal tests in order to speed their growth in the Chinese market. Sadly, it seems that several of the companies they own, including Bobbi Brown, Clinique and now (seemingly) Mac have chosen to follow suit.

I've written to Mac to ask for some clarification on whether or not they have started testing on animals, because the post that Phyrra links to as her source has some factual errors (Mac has used animal-derived ingredients- although ones that could be produced without requiring pain or death- and never claimed to be vegan), so I want to be really sure about what's going on. I haven't heard back from them.

I did notice that Bobbi Brown and Estee Lauder have modified their statements about animal testing to indicate that it is done under certain circumstances.

Personally, I think I'm pretty fair when it comes to cosmetics companies- the history and structure of the industry means that everyone is using products or ingredients that have likely been tested on animals at one time. All I ask is that the companies that I buy from don't actively continue to test or request that others do so on their behalf, given that there are more effective means available. I'm happy to say that this doesn't limit my options as much as it used to (a lot of companies have dispensed with animal tests as public pressure has grown).

If anyone has more information on this, please feel free to add it. If/ when I hear back from Mac, I'll post the response in full here. Hopefully, it's just one of those bad internet rumours that will be dispelled shortly.

 

[paparazziboy]

all i can say is that the company is still cruelty free unless the country by law requires the testing then they have no say so in the matter since it is law. we have got a memo about this. it was not something that the company liked but had to follow because of that countries laws

 

[Mac-Guy]

When a cosmetic company exports to China, it can not claim to be cruelty-free anymore as animal testing is required by law in China.

In the recent years, the Chinese market saw a fast expansion of cosmetic lines, as the spending power of consumers rapidly grows. There is a huge demand of (Western) medium to high end cosmetic brands in China and the business potential is huge. It is now up to the individual consumer (in the West) to decide if they agree with this development or if they look into alternative brands.

 

[katred]

Thankns Paparazzi Boy and Mac Guy- this is pretty much what I understood to be the case. I hope that some companies will work with the Chinese government to change the legislation that requires animal tests or to allow exemptions for those who have proven the safety of their products in other markets (as I understand is happening now with certain brands).

I realise for companies who want to expand their business and maximize profits, it's a compromise they have to consider very carefully- the Chinese market has massive potential and is a prize for any brand. Like you say, it's an individual choice on the part of consumers.

 

[Mac-Guy]

Thankns Paparazzi Boy and Mac Guy- this is pretty much what I understood to be the case. I hope that some companies will work with the Chinese government to change the legislation that requires animal tests or to allow exemptions for those who have proven the safety of their products in other markets (as I understand is happening now with certain brands).

I realise for companies who want to expand their business and maximize profits, it's a compromise they have to consider very carefully- the Chinese market has massive potential and is a prize for any brand. Like you say, it's an individual choice on the part of consumers.

I don't think there will be any changes soon in Chinese legislation, at least not in the near future.

 

[katred]

Possibly not. I know that PETA has said that from their discussions with the Chinese government, they seem open to the idea of revising their policy (although it's not something they want to discuss with the cosmetics companies themselves), but no idea what the timeline would be. I know that Avon, which is one of the companies that started testing in order to export to China, is at least working with animal rights organisations (PETA and others who might be less controversial) to try to implement changes.

 

[deidre]

Interesting.

Thanks for the info!

 

[katred]

FYI, for those interested in discussing Mac's change in animal testing status, I started a thread here:

Revised Mac animal testing policy? :-((

The Chinese government (along with a few other countries, but China is the main one) requests skin and eye irritation tests be performed on animals in order for them to be imported into the country, even if other tests have proven that the products are safe in other markets.

@Pinkdollface- Funny, I was just checking that the other day about MUFE. They are still non-testers.

 

[Eleentje]

I find it ironic that the country that is flooding the western markets with inferior or even hazardous cheap/counterfeit products (not just cosmetic products, think the baby food that was polluted with melamine) imposes such requirements upon even most well-established western companies. I obviously understand that chinese government doesn't support the black/ counterfeit market, but it's not like they are trying really hard to stop the export of such products.

 

[Mac-Guy]

I find it ironic that the country that is flooding the western markets with inferior or even hazardous cheap/counterfeit products (not just cosmetic products, think the baby food that was polluted with melamine) imposes such requirements upon even most well-established western companies. I obviously understand that chinese government doesn't support the black/ counterfeit market, but it's not like they are trying really hard to stop the export of such products.

In this case, it's the demand that encourages the production. If no-one would buy these cheap palettes, there wouldn't be a market for it.

On a related note, it will be interesting to see what MAC products will be manufactured in China in the near future given that quite a few of the latest LE brushes came from China.

 

[pemily]

In all honestly, If more Mac products are manufactured in china the quality control will go out the window. Through my line of work we often import and the first few batches are always great then they slip..., Results will include; less LE quantities, delays etc. Most companies that use china/India etc will pass on a price decrease, however as some have stated Mac is pushing into the high end market so that won't happen.... It really is a no win. The other day I was looking at the collection lists from 2008-current. The collections pre 2010 are still raved about!! These days collections come and go, I am starting to see why some people believe Mac has shifted it's morals and creative levels! Very sad

 

[Pinkdollface]

FYI, for those interested in discussing Mac's change in animal testing status, I started a thread here:

Revised Mac animal testing policy? :-((

The Chinese government (along with a few other countries, but China is the main one) requests skin and eye irritation tests be performed on animals in order for them to be imported into the country, even if other tests have proven that the products are safe in other markets.

@Pinkdollface- Funny, I was just checking that the other day about MUFE. They are still non-testers.

Thanks for the confirmation about MUFE! I really like the Matte Velvet+ foundation and i'm thinking about trying the HD next

 

[romi79_2008]

I just saw on facebook some pictures with animals that were used as tests by L`oreal

 

[Mac-Guy]

I just saw on facebook some pictures with animals that were used as tests by L`oreal

There are quite a few pictures going around since the announcement that companies will enter the Chinese market.

 

[MichaelaLou]

Animal testing and it's influence on your purchasing decisions

The animal testing photos are making me feel really guilty.

 

[OctoberViolet]

I can't even look at them. It makes me cry and then my blood pressure will rise too much & then I start to feel worse than I do just thinking about the testing. Why can't companies test on humans, you know, the ones serving time for murder that we have no use for anyhow?! Sorry guys, that is how I feel.

The animal testing photos are making me feel really guilty.

 

[Mac-Guy]

I'm sorry, but this is equally bad (or worse) than animal testing. The prison industry, especially in the US, is cruel and inhumane, and there is certainly no need to make it worse by imposing testing on prisoners. I'm sure you didn't mean it that way, or at least, on a second thought, will reconsider your statement.

 

[xasperadastra]

I'm sorry, but this is equally bad (or worse) than animal testing. The prison industry, especially in the US, is cruel and inhumane, and there is certainly no need to make it worse by imposing testing on prisoners. I'm sure you didn't mean it that way, or at least, on a second thought, will reconsider your statement.

Well, animals are innocent, some people are really cruel, they kill other people and hurt children... I'm against torture but if I should choose which creature deserve pain I would choose human. Of course it would be a terrible thing and also meaningless.. we have everyting we need to test stuff without alive creatures..

 

[katred]

I'll be curious to see how this effects people's decisions whether or not to buy Mac products over here. Unlike a lot of other companies, Mac made their no-testing status a feature of who they were, something that made them a different sort of company along with their sense of environmental responsibility (through things like their recycling program) and their dedication to social causes. I'm disappointed to know that Estee Lauder has made the change, but I'm not entirely surprised. With Mac, I'm disappointed in that I realise they're no longer the company they were when I first "fell" for them. That's not a new thing, of course, it's just that this change really crystallizes it for me.

It reminds me of when The Body Shop were purchased by L'Oreal. They've been able to do far more things and develop far more and better products now that they have that cash behind them, but they've lost most of their original relevance. Nonetheless, others have filled that void and I imagine the same thing will happen in this case.

 

[Mac-Guy]

I'll be curious to see how this effects people's decisions whether or not to buy Mac products over here. Unlike a lot of other companies, Mac made their no-testing status a feature of who they were, something that made them a different sort of company along with their sense of environmental responsibility (through things like their recycling program) and their dedication to social causes. I'm disappointed to know that Estee Lauder has made the change, but I'm not entirely surprised. With Mac, I'm disappointed in that I realise they're no longer the company they were when I first "fell" for them. That's not a new thing, of course, it's just that this change really crystallizes it for me.

It reminds me of when The Body Shop were purchased by L'Oreal. They've been able to do far more things and develop far more and better products now that they have that cash behind them, but they've lost most of their original relevance. Nonetheless, others have filled that void and I imagine the same thing will happen in this case.

Maybe you can add a poll to this thread to see if animal testing will influence people's purchase decisions. Give at least some different options ranging from "I will never buy MAC again" to "I care, but not enough to prevent me from buying" to "I will reduce purchases to a minimum" to "I don't care" (just to give you some ideas - let me know if you need some help).