Revised Mac animal testing policy? :-((

[OctoberViolet]

I agree wholeheartedly with you xasperadastra. Animals can't speak for themselves. When they feel pain we can't understand. I have never understood the need to test on animals when in fact, it's us humans who buy & use the stuff that are being tested on animals. Why not just test on a human? I'm sure it wouldn't be as cruel as it is for an innocent animal because humans can speak and say, hey this isn't feeling right or I'm getting a rash.

I'm sorry, but this is equally bad (or worse) than animal testing. The prison industry, especially in the US, is cruel and inhumane, and there is certainly no need to make it worse by imposing testing on prisoners. I'm sure you didn't mean it that way, or at least, on a second thought, will reconsider your statement.

 

[Eleentje]

I respect your opinion, but what about the people that may be wrongfully accused as murderers? Not only would they be deprived of their freedom for the crimes they didn't commit, but they would be put through all those tests as some kind of "human waste material". I think that just like with medicines, there should be some kind of volunteer programme, where people get paid high amounts of money for being test subjects, just like with pharmaceutical products. And I think that companies would then be a bit more careful with their sensitivity tests, since the results will be clearly visible on humans with sensitive skin. So no need to administer ridiculous amounts of the tested ingredient to poor animals, who greatly suffer and sometimes even die in the result just to see if humans *may* be sensitive to it.

Mac-Guy, I do understand where you are coming from. My mom is with you. I, however, believe the jail system in the US is quite good to our inmates. They get three square meals a day, exercise room, library, schooling, good medical, get to learn the computer & get to work inside the prison. Some of them even teach within or become lawyers & help their fellow inmates. My brother who suffers from schizophrenia & has never hurt a soul, can't even get a decent job, good medical or even get good schooling to learn the computer. This is because whenever the government needs to cut down on stuff, they take it away from the less fortunate. It's a shame! I'm definitely not saying I believe all prisoners should be used as testers. I was just saying the murders who aren't good in society can be used a the guinea pigs instead of the innocent animals. I also just want to say, this is my opinion & I do apologize for bringing this up on a public board & I hope I didn't insult anyone's belief contrary to my own.

 

[OctoberViolet]

Agreed! & point taken!

 

[Mac-Guy]

With all my respect, but your conception of the prison system does certainly not reflect reality. In fact, I would compare the environment of incarcerated people with those of animal farms, i.e. extremely tight spaces, minimum health care, and certainly very little educational opportunities. The goal of imprisonment should be rehabilitation rather than focus on punishment.

There are more Americans who were in prison or jail than in any other country in the world. For example, one in four black males in their 20s has some sort of prison experience! Yes, (most) people are locked up for good reasons, but if you don't improve the prison conditions and focus on rehabilitation, they will just end up in prison again as they do not know better and the system does not provide enough support. The individual stories how people end up in prison can be touching, and certainly the social environment and upbringing of each individual has a lot to do with it. Just think of a woman who is a victim of domestic violence, who, one day, stands up and attacks her perpetrator. If this person dies, the woman will be incarcerated for murder. So, is it now completely her fault because she picked the wrong man for a relationship? Should we punish her even further by using her for the testing of cosmetics "because she isn't good for society?"

I do not want to lecture you, but rather encourage you to do more research on the prison industry before jumping to quick conclusions. There are many volunteer opportunities/prison initiatives if you want to engage in social activism.

I strongly believe that nobody deserves to be used a guinea pig, no matter what they might have done in the past - and certainly not for the benefit of a cosmetic company.

I'm stepping of my soap box now, but as a person who believes in social justice and volunteers in social activism and human rights projects, I really had to speak up when someone suggests to use prisoners as guinea pigs for cosmetic testing.

To come back to topic, if someone feels really strongly about animal testing, the only way to have an influence is to stop buying from companies that test on animals. While this might be hard, it is probably the only way to make a real difference, but of course, it will be a difficult decision.

 

[ILoveMakeup84]

I agree 100% with you Mac-Guy specially on this point: nobody deserves to be used a guinea pig, no matter what they might have done in the past - and certainly not for the benefit of a cosmetic company.

 

[OctoberViolet]

Understood. I feel the same way about animal testing. They don't deserve this treatment either. Animals deserve far better respect in my opinion.

I agree 100% with you Mac-Guy specially on this point: nobody deserves to be used a guinea pig, no matter what they might have done in the past - and certainly not for the benefit of a cosmetic company.

 

[Pinkdollface]

I was wondering since you also feel so strong about animal testing. What are you going to do with mac?

 

[OctoberViolet]

Pinkdollface, I honestly don't know.

And it's not just MAC. There are other companies I need to check out as well. Sometimes they are on the animal testing list & sometimes their not. I am feeling guilty. How about you?

I was wondering since you also feel so strong about animal testing. What are you going to do with mac?

 

[ILoveMakeup84]

Yes I agree with that also. Its a really difficult position we are in you know?

 

[OctoberViolet]

 

[Pinkdollface]

Yeah me too. I don't know if i can trust any brand right now. But they are trying to make a worldwide law that forbids any testing on animals for cosmetics. So i guess it doesn't matter as much what we do, because people are taking care of it.

 

[MACcrazy]

UGH! I'm more mad about how china is forcing animal testing rather then MAC for now doing it (tho I'm still annoyed) It's understandable that MAC would want to go to china but I don't think that it should be required by law to test on animals!

 

[OctoberViolet]

This!!!! I sooooooo agree with you MACcrazy!!!!!!

UGH! I'm more mad about how china is forcing animal testing rather then MAC for now doing it (tho I'm still annoyed) It's understandable that MAC would want to go to china but I don't think that it should be required by law to test on animals!

 

[MACcrazy]

if countries wouldn't require animal testing, then everyone would be happy and companies that wish to expand can do so without having to go back on their values and making us, the consumers, angry and hurt.

 

[Babylard]

I am also against forcing people to be guinea pigs. It should always be voluntary and people have the right to know all the risks, etc. If prisoners didn't have rights, then whats stopping people from forcing women to have no rights? You don't know why these people have gotten there in the first place. Ask yourself, what does it take for you to have to kill someone and put yourself in that situation. You'd have to be very desparate and these people may come from poverty and broken homes. My cousin told me a story about a friend she had. I warn you that this is graphic/horrifying and to skip past if you do not want to hear it. This friend had been on psychological medications for a long time and is "fucked in the head" her words, not mine. This friend and her brother was living with the father who was very abusive. Eventually, the brother snapped and murdered the father, cut him up and dumped it somewhere. Of course, this brother was found to be a murderer. but with other psychological issues and needed help. Maybe he took the fall for his sister, maybe they couldn't see a life for themselves if this person continued to exist, I don't know. If a man attacked me, I wouldn't hesistate to defend myself. Rather him be dead than me right? Doesn't make me a bad person, but just the circumstances that life puts you in. I think everyone deserves basic rights (health care, housing, nutrition, decision making and control over their own body - including rights to abortions etc).

Decades ago (1960's), humans were used as science experiments and that has ceased today because it was cruel and ihumane. They tested on mental patients and intentionally induced vitamin deficiencies to see what would happen. Several people died this way. We learned a lot from those studies, but it doesn't make it justified. If prisoners lost their rights, whats stopping mental patients, elderly, etc from losing their rights too? It's dangerous and can lead to so many other things. Its a complex matter, but I see that it would act as a doorway to other populations losing their rights in the same manner because they're gonna die anyway, don't know whats going on anyway, etc...

I respect all your opinions and this is how I feel. You have to consider the impact on society.

 

[Babylard]

Yes. Damn you China, they are just so freaken extreme. Is facebook still banned there?! =___=

UGH! I'm more mad about how china is forcing animal testing rather then MAC for now doing it (tho I'm still annoyed) It's understandable that MAC would want to go to china but I don't think that it should be required by law to test on animals!

 

[MACcrazy]

I think so. It seems crazy, but at the same time makes me stop and realize how luck I am to live in a place where everyone has freedoms that, while we don't appreciate it enough, we use each and every day. We at least we can be thankful that we can make the choice whether to buy animal cruelty free products or not!

 

[Mac-Guy]

Yeah me too. I don't know if i can trust any brand right now. But they are trying to make a worldwide law that forbids any testing on animals for cosmetics. So i guess it doesn't matter as much what we do, because people are taking care of it.

This will not happen any time soon. The biggest power still has the consumer: if one feels strongly about animal testing, don't buy [insert animal testing brand here]. The upcoming MAC collections will be a good test to see how much people care about the recent developments.

 

[xasperadastra]

I guess the point was to test on really bad people .. not prisoners because we know that not only bad people goes to prison.. and of course is a surreal option, nobody wants such cruelty but, in a certain way in a nation such mine where nobody gets punished a cosmetic test on phedophiles or rapers maybe would stop such shame... it's only a though I'm not telling they really should

(But let's talk about make up which is a better topic ^^
I misunderstood the Beautyscene article.. Lip set with lipstick nail polish and lipglass are not part of Hey Sailor, right?) Edit* this was in the early buzz thread previously

 

[pemily]

I would rather see testing on a person who has commuted crimes against children, rather than animals. Pure and simple....