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SkylarV217
Well-known member
Re: Why do men hurt us, huh? really?
It comes down to the age old fact that men and women are different. Men can be jerks often. The problem is that most often the women they are jerks toward simply let them act that way. If they cheat most of the time the women are like , I love him and he said he wouldn't do it again ... Or if they treat them badly in general the women continues to allow that behavior. If the women of the world would all say . That is unacceptable behavior and I deserve better , Goodbye. The men would obviously adapt and realize if they have a good thing they must hold on to it. Men don't put up with "bad" Behavior from women that is why women bend over backwards to make her man happy... we know that if we don't he will leave.
I know the above statements are general and not correct in every situation I'm simply replying to the above post =) I know some men are with bad women and so on and so fourth. The bottom line is don't allow yourself to be mistreated and you won't be we can all agree that ladies shouldnt be teated that way buy guys, so why do we allow ourselves to be treated poorly
It comes down to the age old fact that men and women are different. Men can be jerks often. The problem is that most often the women they are jerks toward simply let them act that way. If they cheat most of the time the women are like , I love him and he said he wouldn't do it again ... Or if they treat them badly in general the women continues to allow that behavior. If the women of the world would all say . That is unacceptable behavior and I deserve better , Goodbye. The men would obviously adapt and realize if they have a good thing they must hold on to it. Men don't put up with "bad" Behavior from women that is why women bend over backwards to make her man happy... we know that if we don't he will leave.
I know the above statements are general and not correct in every situation I'm simply replying to the above post =) I know some men are with bad women and so on and so fourth. The bottom line is don't allow yourself to be mistreated and you won't be we can all agree that ladies shouldnt be teated that way buy guys, so why do we allow ourselves to be treated poorly
Beauty Mark
Well-known member
Re: Why do men hurt us, huh? really?
While women are just as likely and capable of causing infidelity, I think many of us, either directly or not, think we ought to stand through anything. I think a lot of women grow up seeing their mothers and other female family members set that example; I know I did. It's ridiculous most of the time, and you know better, but- it's harder to see what's right when it's happening to you sometimes.
While women are just as likely and capable of causing infidelity, I think many of us, either directly or not, think we ought to stand through anything. I think a lot of women grow up seeing their mothers and other female family members set that example; I know I did. It's ridiculous most of the time, and you know better, but- it's harder to see what's right when it's happening to you sometimes.
M.A.C. head.
Well-known member
Re: Why do men hurt us, huh? really?
Meh. Goes both ways.
Though my dad did tell me flat out "men are a**holes" and that guy knows everything. LOL
I've been treated badly by men AND women, but I'm with a man now who is very good to me. Granted, he isn't perfect so he can be an a**hole sometimes, but he's never done anything to REALLY hurt me.
Don't lose hope!
Meh. Goes both ways.
Though my dad did tell me flat out "men are a**holes" and that guy knows everything. LOL
I've been treated badly by men AND women, but I'm with a man now who is very good to me. Granted, he isn't perfect so he can be an a**hole sometimes, but he's never done anything to REALLY hurt me.
Don't lose hope!
Brittni
Well-known member
Re: Why do men hurt us, huh? really?
They're just inconsiderate and apathetic. Some people in their human nature, moreso guys, just don't care as much about things such as feelings. I'm sure it has a lot to do with how people are raised.
I believe that there are plenty of fish in the sea, however, and for everyone so many "bad" guys that hurt girls there are decent ones out there.
They're just inconsiderate and apathetic. Some people in their human nature, moreso guys, just don't care as much about things such as feelings. I'm sure it has a lot to do with how people are raised.
I believe that there are plenty of fish in the sea, however, and for everyone so many "bad" guys that hurt girls there are decent ones out there.
Simply Elegant
Well-known member
Re: Why do men hurt us, huh? really?
Yeah, I agree that it goes both ways. More women are cheating now than before as well. Honestly, I find that guys treat me better than girls do in general but that's just been my experience. I don't want to generalize that t anyone else.
Yeah, I agree that it goes both ways. More women are cheating now than before as well. Honestly, I find that guys treat me better than girls do in general but that's just been my experience. I don't want to generalize that t anyone else.
pratbc
Well-known member
Re: Why do men hurt us, huh? really?
You know, I always wondered the same thing. I am 28 years old and have never been in a relationship where I was treated well. After I left my husband last summer, I decided to take a break from men for a while and concentrate on myself and raising my son. Through being honest with myself, I looked back and realized that, in a way, I actually allowed these men to treat me poorly by being a doormat and never standing up for myself and going out of my way to give, give, give when I in turn got nothing but heartache.
Then I started thinking about all the qualities I want in a man. Now, when I get back into the dating scene I am not going to settle for anything less. Although it has taken almost a year, I am finally able to stand up for myself today with men.
I am in now way saying that ANYONE deserves to be treated badly. But now I realize that I do not have to allow myself to be in those kinds of situations anymore.
You know, I always wondered the same thing. I am 28 years old and have never been in a relationship where I was treated well. After I left my husband last summer, I decided to take a break from men for a while and concentrate on myself and raising my son. Through being honest with myself, I looked back and realized that, in a way, I actually allowed these men to treat me poorly by being a doormat and never standing up for myself and going out of my way to give, give, give when I in turn got nothing but heartache.
Then I started thinking about all the qualities I want in a man. Now, when I get back into the dating scene I am not going to settle for anything less. Although it has taken almost a year, I am finally able to stand up for myself today with men.
I am in now way saying that ANYONE deserves to be treated badly. But now I realize that I do not have to allow myself to be in those kinds of situations anymore.
S.S.BlackOrchid
Well-known member
Re: Why do men hurt us, huh? really?
Because we let them. Society tells women to suck it up and deal with their crap in order to be the "cool girlfriend". If women don't like what they're doing and say something, they are bitches, or "just being insecure". And for some reason, we put them on pedestals. Women are catty, and bitchy and this and that, but men are just perfect angels right?
If I don't like what a guy is doing, or if I have a need that is not being met, I'll tell him. If he didn't want a person with thoughts and feelings, he should have bought himself a blow up doll.
I'm not saying that men are the only assholes, but I do think they get away with it more and get praised even though they're being complete dicks.
Because we let them. Society tells women to suck it up and deal with their crap in order to be the "cool girlfriend". If women don't like what they're doing and say something, they are bitches, or "just being insecure". And for some reason, we put them on pedestals. Women are catty, and bitchy and this and that, but men are just perfect angels right?
If I don't like what a guy is doing, or if I have a need that is not being met, I'll tell him. If he didn't want a person with thoughts and feelings, he should have bought himself a blow up doll.
I'm not saying that men are the only assholes, but I do think they get away with it more and get praised even though they're being complete dicks.
preciouscharm
Well-known member
Re: Why do men hurt us, huh? really?
I agree that it can go both ways. I mean it's inevitable men and women have their differences as far as emotions and ways they deal with things. On top of that people's experiences can be different. We girls will always be the sacrifices giving type.
It all comes down to accepting each other differences, and respecting yourself where you draw the line.
Ladies keeps your heads up there are good men out there
!!!!!!!
I agree that it can go both ways. I mean it's inevitable men and women have their differences as far as emotions and ways they deal with things. On top of that people's experiences can be different. We girls will always be the sacrifices giving type.
It all comes down to accepting each other differences, and respecting yourself where you draw the line.
Ladies keeps your heads up there are good men out there
xxManBeaterxx
Well-known member
Re: Why do men hurt us, huh? really?
Yes it goes both ways but.. From what i see in other couples.. what i notice the most is err how do i explain this.. The "men who are jerks" vs "females who are jerks" men tend to treat their gf's even worse than if the girl was the jerk to their bf's did you get that? lol
From my personal knowledge from my friends, men can do a lot of hurtful things, im not saying girls dont do it too, but i feel like the things they do to mistreat/disrespect their gf's are on a completely nother level. But how many boys do you see going into depression and other things because of a bad gf? For me not many... But i sure do see a lot of females going into depression after a bad relationship.
Best thing to do in a relationship espeically during the first "honeymoon stage" is be cautious, dont fall head over heels to the sweet and kind words they say to you. If they are assholes, their true colors will shine eventually. And if you do notice they are jerks, dump him, unhealthy relationships can cause all sorts of emotinal problems for you in the future.
Yes it goes both ways but.. From what i see in other couples.. what i notice the most is err how do i explain this.. The "men who are jerks" vs "females who are jerks" men tend to treat their gf's even worse than if the girl was the jerk to their bf's did you get that? lol
From my personal knowledge from my friends, men can do a lot of hurtful things, im not saying girls dont do it too, but i feel like the things they do to mistreat/disrespect their gf's are on a completely nother level. But how many boys do you see going into depression and other things because of a bad gf? For me not many... But i sure do see a lot of females going into depression after a bad relationship.
Best thing to do in a relationship espeically during the first "honeymoon stage" is be cautious, dont fall head over heels to the sweet and kind words they say to you. If they are assholes, their true colors will shine eventually. And if you do notice they are jerks, dump him, unhealthy relationships can cause all sorts of emotinal problems for you in the future.
mona lisa
Well-known member
Re: Why do men hurt us, huh? really?
Quote:
I joined the site some time ago and have occasionally read various posts/threads while not contributing anything myself. But this subject seems of particular interest so pardon me please if I get a bit lengthy in this response and try to write it in as fair a fashion as I can.
There are certain factors which involve differentiation between the sexes and others which are cultural. The ones involving differences are significant because men as a rule approach things differently than women do. For example, men do not like to talk about feelings or go into the sorts of "why did this happen" sort of rehashes that women do. They view a problem as something to be solved not something to be empathized with -which explains why a woman confides in her man with a problem and then she at times gets annoyed at his attempts to solve it. As we know, she does not want him to solve it (usually) but men are problem solvers and they view a "problem" as something not to be empathized with (well, for the most part anyway) but to be solved.
And once a "problem" is solved, as far as they are concerned, there is no need to rehash the matter. But a woman who wants empathy on the problem finds that expressing her feelings on it is as natural as anything and rehashing a subject is part of how she deals with it. This goes into another area where there can be problems: men do not need a lot of details but women like to give details. This is why a woman can talk at length on a matter and then she gets annoyed that the man is not "paying attention." The lack of needing a lot of details makes a man literally shut down the attention factor in those situations. Then, because he cannot recall all the details, this can make a woman mad because in her mind he was "not paying attention", "does not care", etc. The woman rarely stops to ask herself if perhaps the problem is her communication approach with the man.
Just because a particular approach works with other women does not mean it will work with men. I saw a bit from a comedian named Bill Engvall where he gave the example of a guy who in talking with his workout partner finds out about the workout partner and his wife getting a divorce. The man's response was basically "that is a bummer man, can you spot me?" and that was their whole conversation. But when Engvall in his routine related it to his wife, she started asking him a whole bunch of questions and he mimicked her annoyance that Engvall kept saying "I do not know" to her questions. In her mind, he needed to "ask more questions" but in his mind, he knew enough on the matter after the exchange noted above. It was a funny bit but it also highlights a key difference: women like details but as a rule men do not feel the need to get them. Unless I suppose the subject is cars or sports: men can be all into statistics on those matters. But generally speaking, they are not.
As far as cheating goes, it is as a rule a symptom of a much deeper problem and not an isolated incident. The reasons for it are many but oftentimes after the initial "honeymoon" stage of a relationship when things settle down a bit, a woman can treat her man in some ways as if he is a child. And culturally this is reinforced to some extent where we see in society and in media a lot of shows that portray men as idiots who cannot do anything right but "depend" on some perceived "strong woman" to make everything right. (Some of those shows are quite funny but when you look at the collective message they send, it is pretty clear.)
I do not want to appear to be advocating specific roles for each sex but back in the "old days" -whatever one wants to say about the merits or demerits of those approaches- the idea of specific roles along with a societal frowning upon those who would not keep to their commitments made for a stabler society. But now we have the idea that women can "have it all" which is a myth though that is not considered "politically correct" to say. And we have a culture that does not put value on notions such as "commitment" indeed the "no commitment" slogan is in many an advertisement on TV, radio, the internet, etc. And we also have so-called "no-fault divorce" which erodes the notion of commitment further along with some who consider it "progress" when the rates of women cheating on men come closer to approximating that of men cheating on women rather than viewing that as a bad sign. (Not because it is good for men to cheat on women more but because cheating itself is wrong and not to be encouraged no matter who or what sex is doing it.)
There is in other words, a society where fidelity and commitment are not reinforced by societal standards but indeed are eroded. The old societal constraints despite certain flaws had the benefit of making men more accountable to their families. I am not saying a return to it is the solution but some of what it embodied seems in my mind to be of use or at least considering carefully rather than dismissed in a reactionary fashion.
In response to one point "Alias" made about "gorgeous beautiful ladies, being treated not the best way by their boyfriends" some of the problem for this is the woman's fault in her selection of men. If you peruse the internet, you will find many guys who claim to be "nice guys" who whine about being rejected by women who go for the "jerks" who then wonder why the "jerks" act the way they do.
As far as whether any of "Alias'" friends "did anything wrong" I cannot comment because I do not know anything about the specific circumstances of any of their cases. But is is possible in at least some of those cases that the problem involves to a degree the fact that men and women are different in more ways than it is commonly admitted to. In the other examples, the men were probably jerks.
As far as a woman "treat[ing] him good" where he "get used to the fact you love him and do whatever he wanna do" this is a broad statement in and of itself. If the woman is treating the man like a child or badgering him about certain things, she may think she is helping but it is anything but. He is not with her for her to act as another mother to him and the "mothering" approach is not "treating him well" but indeed is smothering him. Men hate to be smothered and they like their freedom even if that "freedom" is more illusionary than real.
But then again, there are guys who are oblivious to the fact that they can often say or do things that hurt their women. Part of this as I said is perception: men are not as a rule detail oriented but are usually big picture oriented. They can often approach things that way and the neglect of what to them are trivial details can be cause for hurt because to a woman, some of those details can be important.
Take the various anniversaries -men do not take notes on many of what women view as the "landmark anniversaries" in a relationship. (The anniversary of "when we met", "when we had our first date", "when we had our first kiss", "when we first made love", "when we were engaged", etc.) Those sorts of details are important to women but to a man the bigger picture is what he sees and he thinks he is doing great if he remembers the anniversary of their meeting or dating/marriage anniversary. And if he forgets those, he does not view it as a sign of "disrespect" or "lack of love" or whatever. But to a woman, such negligences can be viewed far more seriously and this is why men will go to extra lengths at times to try and "make up" for those lapses: because once they realize what happened, they then have a "problem" they need to try and "solve." I realize the natural question is "well, he should have remembered anyway" but again, there is a difference in how these matters are viewed by the different sexes.
As far as ladies being "able to spend the whole life with one man" and "[w]ith no cheating, just making his days better", "[p]leasing her man","eing with him through thick and thin" this is all true. But men can do this as well. They may not be as good at it naturally as women (because woman are better at making sacrifices than men are historically) but that was the value in days past of certain societal conventions and approaches I noted earlier that now are either ignored or downplayed.
I noticed "Alias" asking if "as soon as their girl is going through tough times, or at least looks not hot, they gonna rush to another one?" Without attempting to answer for all possible situations, as a rule "tough times" are not going to be a time for bailing out for a guy. (Those who would are scumbags because all persons and relationships no matter how good will have tough times or problems.) As far as "at least looks not hot" that is a tougher one because men are very visually oriented -much more so than women are. The difference may lie in whether it is something that can be corrected or not.
Both sexes tend to "settle in" during a relationship and let things go a bit -partially due to the factors of getting older and partly out of a sense of comfort and/or other factors. The problem is, looks are higher on a man's "selection chart" than a woman's. It would be jerk of a man indeed who would leave a woman who for reasons beyond her control had a decline in the looks department. But so often these things are correctable and to a man, a woman who lets herself go for reasons not beyond her control is sending messages subconsciously to the man which are not good. It may sound simplistic and it probably is but remember: men are visually oriented more so than women are. As far as why they are or can be "rude", society itself is a much ruder place overall than in past generations. There are other reasons but that one itself is not insignificant.
Despite what I have written above, I do not have any hard or fast solutions to any of it. Men and women are different and that is part of the problem. But the solution means each needs to give in to the other to make it work out and society is far more "me-centered" than ever before: something that does not help. And (of course) women are less willing than they were in the old days to play the game of letting the man think he was "king of the castle" publicly.
To give one example from my own family, I remember my mother would let my father think he was king. And on the major decisions she would defer to him -though he always valued her consultation on matters of course. They fought so infrequently that when they did it was a major matter -and they never went to bed angry with one another. (Something my father told me was very important to remember.) And if my father had not passed away, they would be celebrating 42 years together this year.
My mother told me that if my father ever strayed that she was not doing her job. And to my knowledge, my father never strayed -indeed he deferred to her a lot and rarely insisted on getting things "his way" preferring the "yes dear" or "sure honey" kind of response. I think for that reason when he did insist with significant matters on doing it his way she was glad to yield. But then again, their marriage involved a good part of the "old days" approach with few exceptions. (Though one was my father deferring the bookkeeping of the checkbook and budget to my mother: her more detail-oriented approach made her a much better bookkeeper than dad was.)
I noticed that "Alibi" mentioned that she did not "wanna sound feministic" and while she did not, there is also the issue of feminism and how in some respects it made interaction between the sexes a lot harder while in others it contributed to improvements. But then again, "Alibi" sounds like the kind of woman that men on the web often claim they want to find but who similarly do not like the "nice men" types. Of course "nice guys" have their own problems which could be listed here but I have written enough already. Thanks in advance to those who managed to wade through it all
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alibi
Damn, give me some good examples? Or at least explain my why they sometimes hurt us so bad, being rude, not caring at all etc. 
|
I joined the site some time ago and have occasionally read various posts/threads while not contributing anything myself. But this subject seems of particular interest so pardon me please if I get a bit lengthy in this response and try to write it in as fair a fashion as I can.
There are certain factors which involve differentiation between the sexes and others which are cultural. The ones involving differences are significant because men as a rule approach things differently than women do. For example, men do not like to talk about feelings or go into the sorts of "why did this happen" sort of rehashes that women do. They view a problem as something to be solved not something to be empathized with -which explains why a woman confides in her man with a problem and then she at times gets annoyed at his attempts to solve it. As we know, she does not want him to solve it (usually) but men are problem solvers and they view a "problem" as something not to be empathized with (well, for the most part anyway) but to be solved.
And once a "problem" is solved, as far as they are concerned, there is no need to rehash the matter. But a woman who wants empathy on the problem finds that expressing her feelings on it is as natural as anything and rehashing a subject is part of how she deals with it. This goes into another area where there can be problems: men do not need a lot of details but women like to give details. This is why a woman can talk at length on a matter and then she gets annoyed that the man is not "paying attention." The lack of needing a lot of details makes a man literally shut down the attention factor in those situations. Then, because he cannot recall all the details, this can make a woman mad because in her mind he was "not paying attention", "does not care", etc. The woman rarely stops to ask herself if perhaps the problem is her communication approach with the man.
Just because a particular approach works with other women does not mean it will work with men. I saw a bit from a comedian named Bill Engvall where he gave the example of a guy who in talking with his workout partner finds out about the workout partner and his wife getting a divorce. The man's response was basically "that is a bummer man, can you spot me?" and that was their whole conversation. But when Engvall in his routine related it to his wife, she started asking him a whole bunch of questions and he mimicked her annoyance that Engvall kept saying "I do not know" to her questions. In her mind, he needed to "ask more questions" but in his mind, he knew enough on the matter after the exchange noted above. It was a funny bit but it also highlights a key difference: women like details but as a rule men do not feel the need to get them. Unless I suppose the subject is cars or sports: men can be all into statistics on those matters. But generally speaking, they are not.
As far as cheating goes, it is as a rule a symptom of a much deeper problem and not an isolated incident. The reasons for it are many but oftentimes after the initial "honeymoon" stage of a relationship when things settle down a bit, a woman can treat her man in some ways as if he is a child. And culturally this is reinforced to some extent where we see in society and in media a lot of shows that portray men as idiots who cannot do anything right but "depend" on some perceived "strong woman" to make everything right. (Some of those shows are quite funny but when you look at the collective message they send, it is pretty clear.)
I do not want to appear to be advocating specific roles for each sex but back in the "old days" -whatever one wants to say about the merits or demerits of those approaches- the idea of specific roles along with a societal frowning upon those who would not keep to their commitments made for a stabler society. But now we have the idea that women can "have it all" which is a myth though that is not considered "politically correct" to say. And we have a culture that does not put value on notions such as "commitment" indeed the "no commitment" slogan is in many an advertisement on TV, radio, the internet, etc. And we also have so-called "no-fault divorce" which erodes the notion of commitment further along with some who consider it "progress" when the rates of women cheating on men come closer to approximating that of men cheating on women rather than viewing that as a bad sign. (Not because it is good for men to cheat on women more but because cheating itself is wrong and not to be encouraged no matter who or what sex is doing it.)
There is in other words, a society where fidelity and commitment are not reinforced by societal standards but indeed are eroded. The old societal constraints despite certain flaws had the benefit of making men more accountable to their families. I am not saying a return to it is the solution but some of what it embodied seems in my mind to be of use or at least considering carefully rather than dismissed in a reactionary fashion.
In response to one point "Alias" made about "gorgeous beautiful ladies, being treated not the best way by their boyfriends" some of the problem for this is the woman's fault in her selection of men. If you peruse the internet, you will find many guys who claim to be "nice guys" who whine about being rejected by women who go for the "jerks" who then wonder why the "jerks" act the way they do.
As far as whether any of "Alias'" friends "did anything wrong" I cannot comment because I do not know anything about the specific circumstances of any of their cases. But is is possible in at least some of those cases that the problem involves to a degree the fact that men and women are different in more ways than it is commonly admitted to. In the other examples, the men were probably jerks.
As far as a woman "treat[ing] him good" where he "get
But then again, there are guys who are oblivious to the fact that they can often say or do things that hurt their women. Part of this as I said is perception: men are not as a rule detail oriented but are usually big picture oriented. They can often approach things that way and the neglect of what to them are trivial details can be cause for hurt because to a woman, some of those details can be important.
Take the various anniversaries -men do not take notes on many of what women view as the "landmark anniversaries" in a relationship. (The anniversary of "when we met", "when we had our first date", "when we had our first kiss", "when we first made love", "when we were engaged", etc.) Those sorts of details are important to women but to a man the bigger picture is what he sees and he thinks he is doing great if he remembers the anniversary of their meeting or dating/marriage anniversary. And if he forgets those, he does not view it as a sign of "disrespect" or "lack of love" or whatever. But to a woman, such negligences can be viewed far more seriously and this is why men will go to extra lengths at times to try and "make up" for those lapses: because once they realize what happened, they then have a "problem" they need to try and "solve." I realize the natural question is "well, he should have remembered anyway" but again, there is a difference in how these matters are viewed by the different sexes.
As far as ladies being "able to spend the whole life with one man" and "[w]ith no cheating, just making his days better", "[p]leasing her man","eing with him through thick and thin" this is all true. But men can do this as well. They may not be as good at it naturally as women (because woman are better at making sacrifices than men are historically) but that was the value in days past of certain societal conventions and approaches I noted earlier that now are either ignored or downplayed.
I noticed "Alias" asking if "as soon as their girl is going through tough times, or at least looks not hot, they gonna rush to another one?" Without attempting to answer for all possible situations, as a rule "tough times" are not going to be a time for bailing out for a guy. (Those who would are scumbags because all persons and relationships no matter how good will have tough times or problems.) As far as "at least looks not hot" that is a tougher one because men are very visually oriented -much more so than women are. The difference may lie in whether it is something that can be corrected or not.
Both sexes tend to "settle in" during a relationship and let things go a bit -partially due to the factors of getting older and partly out of a sense of comfort and/or other factors. The problem is, looks are higher on a man's "selection chart" than a woman's. It would be jerk of a man indeed who would leave a woman who for reasons beyond her control had a decline in the looks department. But so often these things are correctable and to a man, a woman who lets herself go for reasons not beyond her control is sending messages subconsciously to the man which are not good. It may sound simplistic and it probably is but remember: men are visually oriented more so than women are. As far as why they are or can be "rude", society itself is a much ruder place overall than in past generations. There are other reasons but that one itself is not insignificant.
Despite what I have written above, I do not have any hard or fast solutions to any of it. Men and women are different and that is part of the problem. But the solution means each needs to give in to the other to make it work out and society is far more "me-centered" than ever before: something that does not help. And (of course) women are less willing than they were in the old days to play the game of letting the man think he was "king of the castle" publicly.
To give one example from my own family, I remember my mother would let my father think he was king. And on the major decisions she would defer to him -though he always valued her consultation on matters of course. They fought so infrequently that when they did it was a major matter -and they never went to bed angry with one another. (Something my father told me was very important to remember.) And if my father had not passed away, they would be celebrating 42 years together this year.
My mother told me that if my father ever strayed that she was not doing her job. And to my knowledge, my father never strayed -indeed he deferred to her a lot and rarely insisted on getting things "his way" preferring the "yes dear" or "sure honey" kind of response. I think for that reason when he did insist with significant matters on doing it his way she was glad to yield. But then again, their marriage involved a good part of the "old days" approach with few exceptions. (Though one was my father deferring the bookkeeping of the checkbook and budget to my mother: her more detail-oriented approach made her a much better bookkeeper than dad was.)
I noticed that "Alibi" mentioned that she did not "wanna sound feministic" and while she did not, there is also the issue of feminism and how in some respects it made interaction between the sexes a lot harder while in others it contributed to improvements. But then again, "Alibi" sounds like the kind of woman that men on the web often claim they want to find but who similarly do not like the "nice men" types. Of course "nice guys" have their own problems which could be listed here but I have written enough already. Thanks in advance to those who managed to wade through it all
NutMeg
Well-known member
Re: Why do men hurt us, huh? really?
I think if you're calling the "good guys" the ones who never hurt their girlfriends, then you are actually talking about spineless guys who put their girlfriends feelings above everything else. Maybe that's what you're looking for, but sorry, I'm looking for a partner. I can handle that there are things in my bf's life more important than my feelings, like his education (issue we're dealing with right now). When it comes right down to it, he loves me and wants the best for me, but he's got to put himself first, just like I put myself first. Does it hurt that we have to be in different provinces for another year, and do I sometimes feel like he doesn't really want this as much as I do because he put the brakes on this for his piloting license? Yes. But then I remember that this relationship may not last for the rest of our lives, and if that's the case, we will still have our educations. Neither of us is willing to sacrifice our educations and our financial security for this relationship, because we're realistic enough to know that it may not last forever. I think it's unrealistic to expect that no one will get hurt in an adult relationship dealing with adult issues, like finances, kids, life goals, lifestyles, etc. So yes Alibi, I agree with you that even the good guys hurt their girls sometimes. But unlike you, I don't think that makes them jerks. I know I've hurt my bf just as much as he's hurt me, and I would venture to say that when he hurt me, more was accomplished for our relationship (education, improving financial situation) than when I've hurt him, which has mostly been out of anger or spite.
Maybe that's the difference between women who get their hearts destroyed and those who come out only partially broken. When you're just dating, you should be putting yourself above your boyfriend... If you're married with kids, with a life together, it becomes a little different. I adore my bf, and I hope to be with him for many years, but if it looks like the relationship is starting to cost me more than it gives, you bet your ass I'm going to cut and run. At this point, I'm only in it as long as I can see a future that promises to pay me back for all the hell I'm going through now. As soon as it starts looking like it won't, devastating as it will be, I'm gone. Just because I trust and love him doesn't mean that I'm going to stop looking out for myself and my best interests. I can't expect him to be doing that for me when he's got to be doing it for himself.
I'm not trying to suggest that it's women's fault that men are jerks, because I don't believe that. I just think that you have to be careful about your expectations and where the line that separates good guy from jerk lies. There are some real jerks out there, male and female, and as to the idea raised that in general men hurt women more than women hurt men, it's probably because in general men take things less personally than women do. If you're trying to suggest that men as a gender are somehow worse people than women (and maybe I'm wrong but it feels like most of this thread is getting that way) then I have to say I think that is ridiculous. I can't speak for every situation because obviously there are some assholes out there, and women who really are getting stomped all over. But if you're crying because he forgot the anniversary of the first time you kissed... Maybe you need to take a closer look at your definition of jerk.
Sorry if this post was a bit harsh, but the idea that having a Y-chromosome somehow makes you a worse person both kills me and makes me angry.
I think if you're calling the "good guys" the ones who never hurt their girlfriends, then you are actually talking about spineless guys who put their girlfriends feelings above everything else. Maybe that's what you're looking for, but sorry, I'm looking for a partner. I can handle that there are things in my bf's life more important than my feelings, like his education (issue we're dealing with right now). When it comes right down to it, he loves me and wants the best for me, but he's got to put himself first, just like I put myself first. Does it hurt that we have to be in different provinces for another year, and do I sometimes feel like he doesn't really want this as much as I do because he put the brakes on this for his piloting license? Yes. But then I remember that this relationship may not last for the rest of our lives, and if that's the case, we will still have our educations. Neither of us is willing to sacrifice our educations and our financial security for this relationship, because we're realistic enough to know that it may not last forever. I think it's unrealistic to expect that no one will get hurt in an adult relationship dealing with adult issues, like finances, kids, life goals, lifestyles, etc. So yes Alibi, I agree with you that even the good guys hurt their girls sometimes. But unlike you, I don't think that makes them jerks. I know I've hurt my bf just as much as he's hurt me, and I would venture to say that when he hurt me, more was accomplished for our relationship (education, improving financial situation) than when I've hurt him, which has mostly been out of anger or spite.
Maybe that's the difference between women who get their hearts destroyed and those who come out only partially broken. When you're just dating, you should be putting yourself above your boyfriend... If you're married with kids, with a life together, it becomes a little different. I adore my bf, and I hope to be with him for many years, but if it looks like the relationship is starting to cost me more than it gives, you bet your ass I'm going to cut and run. At this point, I'm only in it as long as I can see a future that promises to pay me back for all the hell I'm going through now. As soon as it starts looking like it won't, devastating as it will be, I'm gone. Just because I trust and love him doesn't mean that I'm going to stop looking out for myself and my best interests. I can't expect him to be doing that for me when he's got to be doing it for himself.
I'm not trying to suggest that it's women's fault that men are jerks, because I don't believe that. I just think that you have to be careful about your expectations and where the line that separates good guy from jerk lies. There are some real jerks out there, male and female, and as to the idea raised that in general men hurt women more than women hurt men, it's probably because in general men take things less personally than women do. If you're trying to suggest that men as a gender are somehow worse people than women (and maybe I'm wrong but it feels like most of this thread is getting that way) then I have to say I think that is ridiculous. I can't speak for every situation because obviously there are some assholes out there, and women who really are getting stomped all over. But if you're crying because he forgot the anniversary of the first time you kissed... Maybe you need to take a closer look at your definition of jerk.
Sorry if this post was a bit harsh, but the idea that having a Y-chromosome somehow makes you a worse person both kills me and makes me angry.
Beauty Mark
Well-known member
Re: Why do men hurt us, huh? really?
I don't think they're "mythical" at all... I've been friends with quite a few guys who are good. They don't sit around complaining about girls in general preferring jerks, either.
I've seen quite a few girls complain about there being no good guys, and then they either abuse their boyfriends verbally or place the guys in situations where they cannot win.
I don't think they're "mythical" at all... I've been friends with quite a few guys who are good. They don't sit around complaining about girls in general preferring jerks, either.
I've seen quite a few girls complain about there being no good guys, and then they either abuse their boyfriends verbally or place the guys in situations where they cannot win.
