Blasphemy???!!! *GASP*

[Beauty Mark]

But they are taking a more active stance than complaining about it amongst themselves. They've seemed to figure out how not to use MAC and decided not to promote it, as well as trying to get the word out. It's hard to say what'll happen, but they make a difference, they may not.

I think they have a right to be mad at the company, if they have helped build it up and promote it. They probably didn't expect MAC to come along and undercut them so badly.

Quote:

Originally Posted by FacesbyNiki You make it work for you. That is with any company in any field. People wasting energy on this 'I hate MAC' mess, cracks me up. If you ain't making it work for you, be mad at yourself and not the company.

 

[Beautiful1]

Quote:

Originally Posted by giz2000 Yep...the artistry aspect of the industry has taken a back seat to the financial aspect...and that's too bad. I know a lot of extremely talented MAs (both MAC and non-MAC) who bust their butts doing outside gigs to build their professional portfolio, so when the day comes that they do leave MAC to venture out on their own, they have something to take with them. For instance, one of my old co-workers would take afternoon shifts as often as possible, because she might have had a wedding to do in the AM, show up for work (7.5 hour shift), then leave to do a photo shoot or fashion spread in the evening...her days were 12-14 hours long (or longer) and she worked on her days off as well, but when she left MAC, she had an impressive book and is getting work in the TV and film industry on a regular basis (and I guarantee she gets paid WAY more than $18/hour). MAC is a wonderful stepping stone to a career in makeup, but a lot of the younger MAs don't realize that there IS a world outside of our beloved MAC, and that they need to learn as much as they can in order to take their talents and make a name for themselves. Easier said that done, but it does happen.

Amen to That! This Is Why I So Appreciate True Make~up Artists Who Are Not Shackled To MAC or Whomever. They Are True To The Art Of Make~up. I Thought About Working For MAC But You Know What My Creation I Need To Own It And Not Have A Company Tell Me That I Can't Lay Claim To My Own Work. That Is Total Bull Crap. But Hey If People Want To Work For MAC As Their Stepping Stone So Be It! Just Make Sure You Are Creating Your Own Separate Book So That You Won't Have To Feel Like Your Stuck!

 

[FacesbyNiki]

My thing is, when it's not your company, there is nothing you can do. I guess, I see it differently. Just seems like too much energy wasted on this. I like the company, I've worked for Clinique so I know what it's like to work for an EL company.

<-- this little guy cracks me up.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beauty Mark But they are taking a more active stance than complaining about it amongst themselves. They've seemed to figure out how not to use MAC and decided not to promote it, as well as trying to get the word out. It's hard to say what'll happen, but they make a difference, they may not. I think they have a right to be mad at the company, if they have helped build it up and promote it. They probably didn't expect MAC to come along and undercut them so badly.

 

[Beauty Mark]

I think consumers can have more power than you realize (I have nothing for or against EL, as of now.) You may not be able to control what goes behind closed doors directly, but if enough people don't buy their products (and let them know why) and it hurts their business, the company will have to do something. If MAC gets bad PR from this and hurts the business, they'll have to do something about that, as well. I don't know if MAs have that kind of power to change consumerism, but I think it's definitely within the realm of possibility.

I really don't know if it's a waste of their time, since it is their business. Small towns (very few) have been successful in blocking Wal-Mart from becoming a part of their communities or at least have been succeessful in stopping Wal-Mart from the Super, 24-hr Wal-Mart. They fear what the company will do to the small, local business and spent a lot of time at meetings and protests, as well as staying informed to stop this. To me, it's sort of the same.

 

[idreamincolor]

Quote:

Originally Posted by FacesbyNiki You make it work for you. That is with any company in any field. People wasting energy on this 'I hate MAC' mess, cracks me up. If you ain't making it work for you, be mad at yourself and not the company.

You are soooooooooooo right!!!!!!! 'nough said!!!!!!!!

 

[FacesbyNiki]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beauty Mark I think consumers can have more power than you realize (I have nothing for or against EL, as of now.) You may not be able to control what goes behind closed doors directly, but if enough people don't buy their products (and let them know why) and it hurts their business, the company will have to do something. If MAC gets bad PR from this and hurts the business, they'll have to do something about that, as well. I don't know if MAs have that kind of power to change consumerism, but I think it's definitely within the realm of possibility. I really don't know if it's a waste of their time, since it is their business. Small towns (very few) have been successful in blocking Wal-Mart from becoming a part of their communities or at least have been succeessful in stopping Wal-Mart from the Super, 24-hr Wal-Mart. They fear what the company will do to the small, local business and spent a lot of time at meetings and protests, as well as staying informed to stop this. To me, it's sort of the same.

I totally understand what you are saying. I guess, I'm looking at it from someone who doesn't care.

I'm not passionate about trying to bring this company down or make them change their ways. I see it like this, use them, like they use you. If they get in your way, go around them. There is ALWAYS another way.

I'm sorry, I'm old, I'll be 33 yrs old next wednesday and my out look on things is so different now.

<--- he cracks me the heck up..

 

[ceelovejay]

It seems like MAC is such an easy target, though. Like, are they going on hate crusades of the companies who decide to contract with MAC too (the fashion designers, award shows, etc.)? They need to hit it from all sides for it to really be effective.

(And yes I know I just bumped an old thread. Sue me. lol)

 

[martygreene]

Bumping old threads is fine, we encourage bumping old threads rather than starting new ones on existing topics!

Yes, those of us in the industry who are disappointed with Estee Lauder and its subsidiaries with their practices in the industry are also making our displeasure known to those who contract with them. Particularly those of us who traditionally worked Fashion Week, have been lobbying the designers and everyone to get independant artists back in, and the corporate take-over out.

 

[MisStarrlight]

I don't know if this has been said or not, but MAC has taken over 59 of the 90-something shows at this upcoming fashion week.

I dunno what to make of it, but figured it was worth noting.

 

[LineausBH58]

wow...so do i hate MAC now?? just kidding....eveyone has said it...MAC is a company...and ALL companies #1 goal is to make money...point blank. i do have a few questions
1. what is a tear sheet?
2. Is it now fair to say getting into MAC might not be the best way for an artist BUT the only way?
3. The guy with the blog....does he really think that MAC MA only have MAC in their kits?
4. Who only has MAC in there kits and why?

i think thats it...i think i am re-thinking my thoughts on MAC... as far as even trying to work there... just because... the blog guy said something right... they are more sales people...(please no one take offence) I mean the counters I go to(not every counter in the world)... most of the counter people... are not even wearing makeup...and i don't mean they are looking "nat." i mean they do not have makeup on... and i'm at the counter at least 3 days a week...

thats it... this is a good topic

 

[Beauty Mark]

If you're working for MAC and handed out as a MAC artist, I doubt the company would let you use anything but MAC. It's promotion for their company. If you had a kit with more- Nars than MAC, it would look questionable. I imagine they're given makeup for free to use, too.

I've been reading more about the MAC issues, and they make sense to me why the makeup artists are upset. Undercutting sucks and it should be a concern if you're a makeup artist (in other fields, I've noticed people who charge much less than going rate aren't very good.) You can argue all you like that quality work will always mean you will have work, but some people are sated with crappy quality or worse, they feel no reason to hire anyone if the quality is that bad. If doing makeup is not only your livelihood but as your life passion, I can totally understand what they're saying.

Paying people off seems shady, too.

 

[redambition]

it happens everywhere, not just the fashion shows.

here in australia, mac is still fairly exclusive and not that easy to get - only a couple of department stores carry it (at select sites, not every store), and there are only a few mac stores. in fact, here in aus we see napoleon perdis doing what mac seems to be doing in the USA. stores everywhere, in house makeup courses (that i doubt the value of sometimes as they are all about napoleon product) saturation of the market, taking over fashion week etc. at the end of the day, the company is trying to make a buck and they will do whatever they can to get it.

for me, as a consumer, i will buy the makeup that i like and that i feel is of decent quality and that suits me. LEs, rare items etc are of no interest unless i actually like the colours and textures. so far i've had better results with mac than with other brands. im not against trying other brands, but i do hold several mac products dear.

edit: another thought.

I have a friend studying a basic make up course so she can do a bit of part-time freelancing (special occasion make up, small weddings etc). discussing kit with her, we and her teacher all came to the conculsion that for something like she is doing, it's important to use brand names that customers would know and trust, as well as mixing in professional products, maybe some low end products if colours are suitable and then some stage/tv style makeup. it's all about perception and availability. for what she will be doing, if she used crazy high end, hard to get pro stuff it could hurt rather than help - because her clients may not be able to get a tube of the lippy or gloss she used to touch up, or they wouldn't recognise what she was using and might not trust the quality. sure, if you're an artist that does high end stuff, fashion shows, television and stage then you can use whatever you want... but if you're making over someone for a special day or night, you want them to feel comfortable and safe with the products that you are using... and you want them to feel that they could maintain the look they have for the time period they need it for. that's my opinion in any case.

 

[amoona]

I know I maybe a little late getting into this topic but I just wanted to put my two cents in. A lot of self-absorbed people, in many different industries, like to be "different" and trash people who fall into a trend. I always find it funny that all those "different" people tend to be the same. I just find it really snobbish that there are people who trash others because of the make-up product that they use, because the product is "trendy". Well duh, of course people are going to use the trendy and affordable product. I'd love to purchase Nars and other high end cosmetic lines but I'm a starving college student! haha

No, I don't plan on making make-up artistry my career but it is so fun to do. MAC makes it fun as well! I use MAC because I had to go to a wedding and I was tired of seeing all my cousins with this beautiful elaborate make-up so I went into a MAC store at my local mall. The artist was one of the most helpful sales person I ever met. He not only sold me the product, he showed me how to apply it as well as taking the time to give me a face chart and write it all out just incase I forgot.

I've never experienced that type of service at any other make-up counter, even Estee Lauder. That is why I began to use MAC, I continue to use it because it's fun!

If people want to seem superior to the average joe because they're supposed to be professional then fine but it makes it hard for the average joe to feel compasionate for your cause when you're trashing us. haha I just always find it funny, like I said before, how people try so hard to be "different" when their form of being different becomes popular.

 

[whitnie]

Quote:

Originally Posted by amoona If people want to seem superior to the average joe because they're supposed to be professional then fine but it makes it hard for the average joe to feel compasionate for your cause when you're trashing us. haha I just always find it funny, like I said before, how people try so hard to be "different" when their form of being different becomes popular.

couldn't have said it better.

 

[aziza]

Bump!

 

[martygreene]

Quote:

Originally Posted by SumtingSweet Bump!

Actaully, since there is a stickied thread about this, I think I'm going to go ahead and close this thread, and copy it's contents into the sticky.