Child rearing ethics

[leppy]

Firstly I have to say that I think lovemichelle's stance is well, ridiculously ignorant and misled. She is still entitled to her opinion though. I was raised by a single working mom as well, because my stepfather died of cancer when I was around 12 and just after they had a child of their own. I turned out okay, and so did my sister, however we also had the benefit of grandparents that could help my mom to handle it all. My mom still would have worked even if my stepfather hadn't died, because that is just the type of person that she is. That being said, they both worked because we had grandparents that could help, and both compromised on their hours and shared the responsibility of being there for us. When my stepfather died it was very difficult for my mom to maintain a good family life AND work, but at that point she had no choice.

I believe you can be a single working Mom and be a good mother, however its always easier and a better job can be done when there are two people in the equation. It doesn't matter if its a woman or man who stays at home (yes I think lesbian and gay couples raise kids JUST FINE), or if they simply manage their time in such a way that they share responsibility, it only makes sense that two people would better handle the extra work that having children is better.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Professor Fate as far as your "real women" statement goes. a woman's FIRST PRIORITY is to take care of and parent her children

This, I have to take major issue with. A woman's first priority is whatever the hell that woman decides is her first priority. We are not monkeys in the forest anymore, our purpose is not to pop em out and raise them for you.

A PARENT'S first priority is to take care of and parent their children. A father is equally responsible. I could never ever be with a man who felt it was my job and not his. Not that I couldn't make the decision to be a stay at home mom and be happy with that, but it would be because in our situation that made the most sense, not because I don't have the penis.

Its a wonderful thing when one person in a relationship is able to stay at home to manage the house and raise the kids. Yes, it is way more often the mom, that is part natural instinct, part injustince in society (even if the man and woman have the same job chances are he makes more than her) and partly that our sons are still being raised to be stupid enough to think its a womans job. I believe a real woman is one who does what is right for her and her family, who doesn't let society tell her what her role is, and is strong enough to choose a man who would not try to either. If a traditional role is right for her and works for her family, then screw those that criticize that. If a non-traditional role is more suited to her, same thing.

So in summary, I don't agree with those of you who say a woman SHOULD work, nor with those of you who say she shouldn't.

 

[Patricia]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Professor Fate as far as your "real women" statement goes. a woman's FIRST PRIORITY is to take care of and parent her children.

my god, maybe we are still in 1800 and i haven't realised... i'm sorry but that is so bloody sexist is not even funny...

a real woman's first priority should be whatever she wants. you wanna be a fulltime mum and have 5 children? go for it! you wanna be a working mum? great! if maternity is not for you and wanna make a brilliant career then everybody should feel free to do it! men and women!

leppy i totally agree with you!

 

[Gloriamgo]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lovemichelle I have asked my mom and my mother is a person who loves to work she can't just sit around. She hates even getting two days off a week. I thank her for the way I was raised. I basically raised myself, but I have a lot more respect for her then other people do for their parents. I am 22 so yes I do not have kids. I don't ever want them, but if it ever happens I would still be working. I don't look at anyone else and say oh she's a stay-at-home mom, that's what I wanna be. I take my mother as an example and would show my kids that women work also, not just daddy. Some people rather just stay at home, but I can't just be home all day. I don't think staying at home with your kids is a job, no matter how great it makes you feel. I've seen people who stayed with their kids while they were young then just stayed outta work even when the kids were bigger. I think kids should be taught work ethic along with other things. And you had the kids, so that is not a job. I consider a job, a workplace not your home and taking care of your kids. That's just something you have to do. You choose to open your legs so you knew what could happen. These are my opinions and there is no need to bash me for them.

Wow, never in my post did I bash your opinion...I am able to understand that they are just that, your opinion and I don't have to like or agree with them, I was simply trying to point something out that might help you understand or look at stay-at-home moms differently.

Now, I'm 21 and no I don't have any kids, I never said that I did, but I do understand how hard it is to raise them. However, if I did, you can be sure that I would NEVER regret "opening my legs," I would actually thank God that I had a healthy child. And I know very well what could happen when I choose to have sex, that is why I take precautions to keep that from happening. That said, please keep yourself from judging me, kids or no kids, whatever decisions I make are my own and I am fully aware of the consequences.

 

[sigwing]

Thanks DSG! *s*

At least this is now in its own branch.

Some moms work, some don't. It's not always a choice, but a necessity to afford everything they need for themselves and their children. Just because some mom works her ass off & makes a ton of money to buy everything for her kid doesn't make her "good." And there are plenty of moms who sit at home addicted to internet or soaps or whatever...so they're home for their kids but are not necessarily "good." There are so many sides of this "mom issue" that are absolutely unique to the individual and their circumstances that this argument cannot be "won" by anybody.

If a stay-at-home mom wants to use some money to buy herself some MAC, what the hell is wrong with that? If her husband is going along thinking she's managing the household & she's letting the lights get shut off, or getting sued for the mortgage because she is addicted to collecting everything MAC comes out with, and he doesn't have the salary to keep up, then yeah, that would be a problem.

I'm sure everyone here, including myself, could launch into their personal experiences of their upbringing, or share what they've observed of others, or of moms we all know who both work & are at home. The main thing that would be learned is how vastly different everyone's circumstances can be, and arguments can be made to attack or defend them all. The other thing that would be learned is that maybe we're all more alike than we even realize.

I violated my own advice about letting this go without posting again, but I just had those thoughts. I also wish all the single moms out there a rich life with their children, whether they're in charge of the household or a cosmetic counter or a boardroom. I myself fell through the cracks and have never been able to be blessed with even one child, and I would have always had to work, even now that I'm married, but I always knew I'd have been devoted to the core in making sure I was doing what was right. I got married 6 years ago and apparently we can't conceive. I suppose there are people who think anyone who waits past their 20's to have kids is an idiot, too. It's not always a matter of waiting, and not always a choice....in anything.

Feel blessed with wherever you're at.

 

[Professor Fate]

Quote:

Originally Posted by leppy A PARENT'S first priority is to take care of and parent their children. A father is equally responsible. I could never ever be with a man who felt it was my job and not his. Not that I couldn't make the decision to be a stay at home mom and be happy with that, but it would be because in our situation that made the most sense, not because I don't have the penis.

what are we talking about here? ...parents,right!? i was saying that the woman's priority is her children........when she has children!

you took this way out of context.i don't believe that women are here for children and that's it, like you obviously think.

 

[Professor Fate]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patricia my god, maybe we are still in 1800 and i haven't realised... i'm sorry but that is so bloody sexist is not even funny... a real woman's first priority should be whatever she wants. you wanna be a fulltime mum and have 5 children? go for it! you wanna be a working mum? great! if maternity is not for you and wanna make a brilliant career then everybody should feel free to do it! men and women! leppy i totally agree with you!

when a woman has a child...her first priority is the well being of her children, same with the father.we are talking about parenting not single women.

 

[Cruella]

Wheeee! This went from being a passionate debate about the merits of MAC to a conversation about what makes a good mum! Loves it!

There are plenty of stay-at-home moms that sit around watching TV all day while the house is in shambles and the baby is wearing a dirty diaper. That would probably be me, which is why I don't have kids

However, there are tons of stay-at-home mothers that work their asses off. As someone mentioned, you are never off the clock. My next door neighbor is married with 2 young boys, one 8 and one 3. Her house is spotless, she cooks amazing meals from scratch, takes the older boy to and from school and is always makes sure that the kids get their exercise, either by playing or going for walks with them. On the weekends, she helps her husband with various house projects. She is amazing! I work a full-time job and I work less than she does - for real!

I consider myself a feminist (a hush falls over the board) and what we fought for was the right to choose for yourself what you want out of life. There used to be a time when a woman with kids couldn't work outside of the home. Now, we can do what we want. There is nothing wrong with being a stay-at-home mum (or dad) - it is a tough job.

My only fear regarding stay-at-home wives or mothers is that something should happen to your spouse/significant other. We don't like to think about things like that, but we should always be prepared. An education, some work experience (outside of the home) are really good things to have - just in case. There are things like divorce/break-ups as well as death or disability that can affect a situation.

 

[Shawna]

I just have to say that when I was pregnant, I was very very sick. The baby and I almost died. He had to be delivered a month early and stay in the neonatal unit. I didn't get to hold him until 36 hours after he was born. I can't have any more children and he is my heart and soul. As far as being a mostly stay at home mom goes, you would have to beat me to death to stop me from spending as much time as possible with him. That said, I go to work part time because it is a break from parenting (even though I look after other people's kids at work) and I feel that it makes me a more well-rounded parent. It is very difficult to balance a life with my husband (because I hardly see him) and a life with my son (who I see all the time) I continually miss holidays because I am always working. I missed xmas last year and it broke my heart, but I also realise that I was with other children who were unable to be with their parents. I made sure the kids at work had a good christmas whether their parents were there or not. I feel that I have made mostly good parenting decisions. Graham has a roof over his head, food to eat, he is healthy (and alive) and he is an intelligent little guy who is curious and always willing to learn about stuff.
I don't really know what I am trying to say with this other than everyone has a different story. You should not judge somebody else based on what you would do in a situation because you truly cannot completely understand someone else's situation. I don't want people thinking I am a real woman for working and raising a child. I don't want people thinking I am a bad parent because I work. I just want people to know that I am a person doing the best that I can with the cards that I have been dealt. And that is how I try to view other people as well.

 

[moonrevel]

Reading this thread has been interesting, and while I initially wasn't going to comment, I decided I just want to give my own anecdotal explanation of my feelings. When I was growing up, both of my parents worked full time, so during the day I went to a babysitter, a relative, or day care until one of my parents was available to take care of me. My mother loved her job (she was a teacher, now retired), and when I talk to her about it, she tells me that she was always committed to being a working mother, whether we needed the extra money or not. I have great respect for her for that, and I never felt I was lacking in anything. Getting some socialization from daycare and other babysitters was, I maintain, very good for me. My boyfriend, on the other hand, had a stay at home mom, and she was always committed to being one, whether they needed extra money or not, and I have just as much respect for her as I do for my own mother.

I want to have children, and I want to work. I am currently getting my Master's degree, and I intend on starting a PhD next year, and I know I want to be able to work with the things I have loved studying, as well as having a family.

The beauty of all that women have fought for with regards to this issue is that we have the ability to make the choice between working, having kids, and any combination thereof. Of course, if you decide to have kids, you have a (legal!) responsibility to take care of them. Whichever choice you make, I think as long as you, your partner, and your children are happy and healthy, it is YOUR CHOICE to make. Everyone is different, and everyone will make a different choice and have a different level of success. My boyfriend and I were raised totally differently and both ended up very happy, healthy, and successful in what we are doing...I have great respect for whatever a woman decides to do. I, for one, want to do both, but I don't at all look down on women who make a different decision.

 

[leppy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Professor Fate what are we talking about here? ...parents,right!? i was saying that the woman's priority is her children........when she has children! you took this way out of context.i don't believe that women are here for children and that's it, like you obviously think.

I don't obviously think that, I was just stating my opinions on it and being clear that I didn't agree with the implication that its the womans job and not the mans, which your post suggested though obviously, that could be interpreting it in the wrong way. If that isn't what you meant, then we really don't have anything to argue about as we seem to be on the same page..

 

[lah_knee]

lovemichelle, the only problem ive had with your opinions thus far is the narrowminded aspects of them. sure you keep telling everyone you are entitled to your own opinion but no one is taking that away from you, people just think your opinion sucks or is stupid. and honestly some of them are. just because people dont agree with your opinions doesnt mean they dont respect you. and you keep implying that.

you dont know people's personal situations. you shouldnt act like you do... for instance telling someone that they know the consequences of opening their legs is just rude. you dont know that persons personal life... what if that person was raped? and to throw it in their face like that is just disrespectful dont you think? also to tell people who have kids when you clearly dont, how to raise them and how to be a mom, is just so incredibly stupid. since you dont have kids you really dont know what its like, no matter how much you think you've "raised yourself" stay at home moms DO have jobs and thats to tend to the house and the kids. theres nothing wrong with that and just because some moms choose to work doesnt mean they are more hardworking or better. i dont think its a good idea to judge people when you dont even know their situations. thats my point.