Early sexualization of children? I hope these people spend a lifetime in Jail.

[M]

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Originally Posted by MarniMac Wow...this is one discussion I thought everyone might agree on. In response to the original question...yes, I think the photographer should be convicted as a sex offender...the girl was underage and taking pics of a minor in their underwear seems like it would be against the law...even if the law states that its ok if the parent gives permission, obviously the mom didn't even know what was happening, so he is guilty. I still think the mom was an idiot for leaving her daughter alone with the photographer though...not to mention staying in the house after learning the guy had a gun.

I couldn't agree with you more!

 

[M]

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Originally Posted by Eoraptor There's almost always a gray area in anything, especially morals. Child porn is a particularily easy case to gray-ify. Think of all the intermediates between what outfit you would consider proper, and what outfit you would consider improper. There's going to be a gray area somewhere. Maybe the top ends a little high, but not quite high enough to be sexual. Or is it? It may depend on how the kid is posed, since fabric moves. Are those heels quite tall or thin enough to be sexual? Is that lipgloss too glossy or too colored? Maybe not quite enough. You get my point. When it comes to morals, your statements really seem to imply a historically stable morality, but that's not reality. Morality is a human property that changes between societies and with time. Things that are considered normal nowdays are by definition moral in our society. Porn used to be something frowned upon, but today the general moral consensus in American society is that using adult porn is a normal healthy action for singles. You're a bit behind this particular wave of change, but there will always be some who lag behind and some who charge ahead. Of course it doesn't mean you're wrong, since morality is subjective. That's something we should keep in mind when judging childrens' actions too. Their society is slightly ahead of ours, so their generations' morals aren't going to be the same. How do our parents feel about the way WE dress, especially when we were younger? Our grandparents? Great grandparents? Yet we think we dress just fine. It's all comparative.

You are reading WAY to much into my statements. People can use any logic they want to support what they think is ok. And that is thier choice. Just because I don't agree with the way societies morals, values or ethics are changing in no way means I'm behind the times. It just means I'm different and I'm ok with that. I don't plan are raising my children based on what the world dictates as normal anyway.

As far as gray areas-to me in most cases it reserved for those who don't want to make a decision. I'm sure there are areas where it applies, but child porn shouldn't be one of them.


And as far as clothing goes-I think there is a big difference between not caring for todays teen fashion-like pants on boys that are 100 sizes too big and seeing a 15 year girl wearing a skirt that barely covers her butt and a shirt that shows all of her chest. Is there any parents out there who want thier daughters to dress this way?

 

[M]

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Originally Posted by Raerae I think with the net though it's not always the parents fault. I've been "on-line" since b4 the internet, before things like AoL were household names. And there was just as much dirt floating around back then as there is today. My parents would have probably flipped had they known what (and who) a PC with a Modem can give a kid access to, and compared to today, the playground back then was like a sterile doctors office. Fast-Fwd a few years, and the internet is even dirtier. But just as many parents are as ignorant today, as my parents were 15 years ago. PC's are harmless right? It's just a computer. The internet will be great for helping them get good grades in school! You have Moms and Dads who barely even know how to use a PC, living with kids who know how to use them inside and out. The parents think they are doing their kids a favor, getting them a PC for their bedroom and a cable modem because it will be good for their education. And instead they purchaced a rabit hole and a one way ticket to wonderland. The sudden attention? The internet can be a very powerful motivator that lets people be anything and anyone they want to be. Without having to worry about the consiquences (or so many people think). Ever gone into a popular yahoo (or any other kind) chatroom with your webcam up and running? You'll be SPAMMED with IM's and requests to view your webcam. And then SPAMMED with requests to, "show your tits!" It's the same reason plenty of innocent girls end up topless on shows like, "girls gone wild." It's a chance to be naughty, where no one really knows your name (so you think). The web also becomes a popularity contest. Wanna be the popular girl on MySpace who gets lots of hot guys and a million friends on your friends list? Then you gotta slut it up. Because if you aren't, they go to the girls who are. Same thing with webpages like, www.hotornot.com wanna score a high number? Take off your top, pose in your bra/panties. No one wants to get a low number, and all the conservative dressed girls score signifigantly lower than the slutty girls. No one who posts on those sites does it w/out looking at the competition beforehand. It's easy to see what scores high and what scores low. Meanwhile Mom and Dad think their darling little girl/boy (guys do it just as much) is being a great kid. She gets good grades in school, doesn't stay out late on weekends (she's at home on MySpace instead). She's not smoking, or doing drugs. And she's getting so much use out of that PC they got her for her birthday, it was such a great gift. Some do, but the vast majority dont. Thats likeley to change though as the tech kids get older. I know what the internet is all about. Why? Cuz I did it all to some degree or another. So I also know what I will and will not allow my kids to have. Were just going through an adjustment phase right now, where the tech jumped WAY ahead of the previous generation. So you have kids who are totally savvy, and parents who are totally ignorant.

I totally agree with you. I just think it's sad that girls feel the need to get attention this way. 15-20 years ago I was in plenty of trouble without the interenet-it just scares me to think of what will be out there once my kids are teens. I mean 15! I don't care how mature a 15 year old thinks they are-they are not.

 

[Eoraptor]

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Just because I don't agree with the way societies morals, values or ethics are changing in no way means I'm behind the times. It just means I'm different and I'm ok with that. I don't plan are raising my children based on what the world dictates as normal anyway.

Doesn't it mean you're behind the times, by definition, if your values match those in recent history, but not those of the present generation?

Again, not saying your values are wrong or bad.

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As far as gray areas-to me in most cases it reserved for those who don't want to make a decision. I'm sure there are areas where it applies, but child porn shouldn't be one of them.

I stand by my previous example you didn't address. A kid in a micro miniskirt and bikini top is child porn. A kid in a sweatshirt and sweatpants is not child porn. But there will be SOME intermediate fashion where you won't have strong feelings either way. That doesn't mean we can't or shouldn't draw a line in the gray to establish laws, it just means it's not obvious exactly where the line should go. Apparently the present case is in the gray area for society, as the vote was 49% vs. 41% last time I checked.

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And as far as clothing goes-I think there is a big difference between not caring for todays teen fashion-like pants on boys that are 100 sizes too big and seeing a 15 year girl wearing a skirt that barely covers her butt and a shirt that shows all of her chest. Is there any parents out there who want thier daughters to dress this way?

Apparently there are at least parents who allow their children to dress that way (even if they don't personally want it), or the fashions wouldn't be sold. But I was referring to how sexily older teens and young adults dress nowdays. Miniskirts, crop tops, etc.. Would your grandma approve?

And I hope no one thinks I'm just trying to be disagreeable or promote child porn (ha!). I just think there are a lot of issues involved with anything like this, and want to raise peoples' awareness of them.

 

[kaliraksha]

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Originally Posted by Raerae So a photo spread in Maxium is porn now?

No, but staying on the subject of age... I know plenty of older boys who have informed that in their younger days (10-14) they umm made a little "hand party" to magazines such as Maxim or Victoria Secret Catalogs...

 

[Raerae]

Boy's dont need an escuse to have a "hand party" lol... It could be a pic of a girl in a full length sweater and baggy pants and it's enough =P

 

[amoona]

I'm a lil late on this but E! had a THS Investigation show on the internet, this was one of the topics. However the girls were much younger then "young teens". Most of them had parents trying to get them into modeling and stuff. Or they were being sexual abused.

It's disgusting but sadly there is a loop-hole in the law that makes it ok. I'd love to see this loop-hole closed.

 

[kaliraksha]

I agree that I would like to see the loop hole closed. However, look at where we are heading? My little cousin who is 8 has a frilly pink bra and she loves it... she begged for it... what is seen as "cute' to some may be seen as "wrong" to someone else. I know my aunt is at fault for buying it for her, if I had kids, I would say "honey, these are for grown up women" and not buy it.

I hate seeing 11 or 12 yr old girls at the mall looking more trendy than myself... I just hate that clothes are made in that style for girls that age. I saw a 12 yr old (at most) at the mall in full on make up, curled hair, cute outfit, expensive purse carrying a bag from Victoria Secret and I was so weirded out.