Federal Income Tax not required by law

Dizzy

Well-known member
Quote:
Originally Posted by kuuipo1207
My other question is this (which doesn't really pertain to the IRS): Why does the federal reserve exist? Why is it that the government gave this institution the power to create money when the government has the power to do that itself?

Now IIRC (just finished my summer semester so my brain is shot to bits), the Federal Reserve is an independent government agency, but is also defined as an independent corporation. It doesn't get any funding from Congress, but that's probably because it creates money, so it technically gives Congress money.

Anyway, I digress.

The original plan for the Federal Reserve as proposed by Alexander Hamilton was to have one central banking system, much like England's banking system, so that currency could be uniform which would allow for free and easy commerce between states. If you look through the early days of US colonialism (I want to say during the days of the Articles of Confederation, but I could be wrong here) each state was entitled to create its own currency which meant that discerning how much $1 Virginia dollar was against $1 South Carolina dollar was impossible since they were backed by faith, not by anything of real value.

But as time progressed, they needed to back money with something more than faith, which is why sometime in the early 1900s all gold was ordered to be given to the gov't in order to back our money (currently held in Fort Knox, but that's up for debate as there's been many conspiracy theroies that the gold is gone). This was where the Federal Reserve began to truly operate as a corporation (a business that functions as an entity seperate of its owners/creators complete with tax # and subject to certain laws, etc)- now that our money was backed by gold, they could (to a certain extent) control the direction of our economy (either by selling or redeeming Treasury notes, amongst other ways). This also creates problems because our money is made with interest- meaning that from the very first dollar we create, we already owe more than the dollar is worth. Hence the reason for huge criticism here.

Now here's the other problem: Nobody really wants to touch the Fed because of the people who run it. President Kennedy was going to try, but obviously he met his end too soon to really make an impact. Congressman Ron Paul has been a huge opponent to having a Federal Reserve for the sheer reason that we shouldn't have a entity not of our government creating our money, amongst other issues (he has actually written quite a bit about it if you're interested. Very intriguing stuff).

That, essentially, the Fed, its flaws, one reason it's flawd, and people who've tried to change it in a very small nutshell. I'd have gone into more (and probably clearer, lol) detail, but I don't know if Specktra chatter is the place for essays like mine.
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Now on the federal income tax? I have my own issues with that, but the biggest one is that the original creators of our government intended for taxation to be a state's right, not a federal one. Since there is no decree that grants the express right to have the feds tax citizens (even though, IIRC and I could be wrong, people were originally intended to be citizens of their states first and of the country second), I still think that it should be up to the state and not the Federal Gov't.

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kuuipo1207

Well-known member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dizzy
Now IIRC (just finished my summer semester so my brain is shot to bits), the Federal Reserve is an independent government agency, but is also defined as an independent corporation. It doesn't get any funding from Congress, but that's probably because it creates money, so it technically gives Congress money.

Anyway, I digress.

The original plan for the Federal Reserve as proposed by Alexander Hamilton was to have one central banking system, much like England's banking system, so that currency could be uniform which would allow for free and easy commerce between states. If you look through the early days of US colonialism (I want to say during the days of the Articles of Confederation, but I could be wrong here) each state was entitled to create its own currency which meant that discerning how much $1 Virginia dollar was against $1 South Carolina dollar was impossible since they were backed by faith, not by anything of real value.


Yeah, I remember that from History when I took it a year ago.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dizzy
But as time progressed, they needed to back money with something more than faith, which is why sometime in the early 1900s all gold was ordered to be given to the gov't in order to back our money (currently held in Fort Knox, but that's up for debate as there's been many conspiracy theroies that the gold is gone). This was where the Federal Reserve began to truly operate as a corporation (a business that functions as an entity seperate of its owners/creators complete with tax # and subject to certain laws, etc)- now that our money was backed by gold, they could (to a certain extent) control the direction of our economy (either by selling or redeeming Treasury notes, amongst other ways). This also creates problems because our money is made with interest- meaning that from the very first dollar we create, we already owe more than the dollar is worth. Hence the reason for huge criticism here.

Fort Knox--This is one of the conspiracy theories that's talked about in the videos. Also talked about, is the idea that no knows who the exact "owners" are of the Federal Reserve.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dizzy
Now here's the other problem: Nobody really wants to touch the Fed because of the people who run it. President Kennedy was going to try, but obviously he met his end too soon to really make an impact. Congressman Ron Paul has been a huge opponent to having a Federal Reserve for the sheer reason that we shouldn't have a entity not of our government creating our money, amongst other issues (he has actually written quite a bit about it if you're interested. Very intriguing stuff).

Aaron Russo interviewed him in his video about the Federal Reserve and where the gold is that's supposed to be at Fort Knox, etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dizzy
Now on the federal income tax? I have my own issues with that, but the biggest one is that the original creators of our government intended for taxation to be a state's right, not a federal one. Since there is no decree that grants the express right to have the feds tax citizens (even though, IIRC and I could be wrong, people were originally intended to be citizens of their states first and of the country second), I still think that it should be up to the state and not the Federal Gov't.
soapbox.gif


I thought I was taught this too, which is why the whole Fed Income Tax being unconstitutional thing made sense to me.
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Dizzy

Well-known member
Quote:
Originally Posted by kuuipo1207
Fort Knox--This is one of the conspiracy theories that's talked about in the videos. Also talked about, is the idea that no knows who the exact "owners" are of the Federal Reserve.

That's the thing though- since the Fed is considered a corporation it's not owned by anybody, it's its own entity onto itself, complete with tax number. It's basically a non-functioning person that has business capabilities, so it can't have an owner, per se. It usually just has a board (here defined by the I believe it's 9 region's presidents) that decides its goals (fiscal amongst others as well) etc.

Which, onto itself, is something to think about. Why is it we create money thorugh a third party (here the Fed) and have to pay interest on it as soon as its created when our own gov't has the authority to create money without interest? I'll see if I can find it (I'm not sure if it was in a book or online), but there have been studies done that suggest if our monetary system was rehauled that not only would we be able to get out of the red zone economically, but also be able to have a more stable currency. I'll see if I can find it, that's another one that was quite interesting.
 

Raerae

Well-known member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shimmer
Indeed. Paying taxes sucks when the taxes aren't used for what we as constituents necessarily WANT them to be used for, but for the *most part* we benefit from them.

Thats my only gripe with taxes. I am happy to pay my taxes, but wish they had the option of letting you put your money in places that you actually benefit from. I think this would make the govt more accountable for it's spending, and in turn make better decisions.

Pipe dream, i know =p
 

MAC_Whore

Well-known member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raerae
Thats my only gripe with taxes. I am happy to pay my taxes, but wish they had the option of letting you put your money in places that you actually benefit from. I think this would make the govt more accountable for it's spending, and in turn make better decisions.

Pipe dream, i know =p


Sounds good, but the world would probably be full of government-runned, state-of-the-art animal shelters that never euthanize and zero paved roads.

Who would want to pay for a road when you can save a puppy?
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kuuipo1207

Well-known member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raerae
Thats my only gripe with taxes. I am happy to pay my taxes, but wish they had the option of letting you put your money in places that you actually benefit from. I think this would make the govt more accountable for it's spending, and in turn make better decisions.

Pipe dream, i know =p


That's another thing. There was something like $3 trillion or $23 trillion that was missing in the Fed Govt's report on money that they get form the US citizens. That's a whole hell of a lot of money to just be missing. I don't mind paying taxes (for the most part) but I'd like to know where it's going to.
 

astronaut

Well-known member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Emma_Frost
The country takes a loose interpretation of the constitution, not a strict one :p

Yeah
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hehe Sorry I had to use it!

My boyfriend told me about this. Whatever, just don't take me to jail. I'll do as you say!
 

Raerae

Well-known member
Think of the constitution as the Pirates Code... It's more of a guideline than strict rules... lol
 
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