Girl Dies After Parents Pray for Healing Instead of Seeking Medical Help

[Kalico]

Quote:

Originally Posted by purrtykitty IMO, I think this is even worse that the Jehovah's Witness situtation because at least there, the people were part of an organized religion that they practiced regularly, even if in many people's opinions the were mis-interpreting the bible. Here, these people didn't regularly attend church, nor were they a part of any organized religion...they just felt like praying. In my mind, that's just unacceptable.

Just because they don't go to church doesn't mean they don't have very extreme/strong beliefs. I only feel I can speak because my parents fall into this group. Seems backwards, I know. But trust me. Sometimes the fact that they don't go to church just means that their beliefs are even crazier/more extreme than you would suspect!

Poor girl. This is so sad. People are friggin nuts...

 

[purrtykitty]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kalico Just because they don't go to church doesn't mean they don't have very extreme/strong beliefs. I only feel I can speak because my parents fall into this group. Seems backwards, I know. But trust me. Sometimes the fact that they don't go to church just means that their beliefs are even crazier/more extreme than you would suspect! Poor girl. This is so sad. People are friggin nuts...

Yeah, that was kind of my point. I mean, at least with an organized religion, there's some idea of where people are getting their faith-based information. The non-church-going fanatics just seem to make the stuff up as they go along so that it fits the lifestyle they want to live.

There's actually a court case where the court struck down the father's reason for wanting to home-school his children because he wasn't part of a church. He just had his own crazy version of a religion.

 

[athena123]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beauty Mark you have to define what "harm" is. Some people will argue that it isn't harmful to beat their children; why else would they do that? It isn't harmful to them. NAMBLA argues pedophilia is okay and natural and not harmful. Is it harmful not provide proper nutrients, at minimal level to a child? Is it harmful to occasionally starve your kids? Leave them without babysitter? Not send them to the doctor? There has to be some kind of definition, and regardless of it being the government, a group of individuals who have the means to do something about it should be the ones who create and uphold those laws.

Beauty Mark, you've just pointed out the problems that can occur if government takes an "activist" role in child rearing. Different people will have different definitions of harm caused to a child. I would certainly disagree with NAMBLA, pediophilia certainly DOES cause harm what are those people thinking? BOOOOO!

Yet other groups will argue that raising your child as a vegan is harmful, while vegans will argue that raising your child to eat meat is harmful. Some will advocate that allowing your child to drink soda is harmful, climbing trees or riding bicycles is harmful. Yet others will argue that raising your child without some religious basis is harmful, where cases like this demonstrate the dangers of religious fanaticism in all shapes and forms. Where do you draw the line? Will we someday see little Johnny coming home from school with a note pinned to his shirt from the teacher because Mom packed potato chips in his lunchbox instead of carrot sticks and celery?

I tend to a moderate point of view; a few chips, bumps from climbing trees and skateboarding, eating meat are all OK. Anything taken to the extreme will cause harm. The only way the parents can be punished is if these extremes really do cause harm. And yes, it's critical for families to be in a support structure so that friends and relatives can step in when needed. In this case, a sister in law on the other side of the country finally called someone, but the sad things is that it came too late.

 

[Beauty Mark]

But just because you and I (and most people) believe pedophilia is a terrible thing, some people disagree heavily, especially when you get into older children (like 12 or 13).

To me, everyone makes a decision on where to draw the line and in a sense, places their values and morals on others. Some are more extreme than others. But regardless, the government is involved in drawing that line of what is personal choice and what is dangerous. Saying you want absolutely no governmental involvement in parenting/children is dangerous, just as dangerous as having the government control everything. If there absolutely no governmental demands, I know some people wouldn't bother educating their children.Who is going to "punish" these people if they do wrong? Governmental types, not your family and friends.

I'm not a fan of governments monitoring and controlling every aspect of our lives, but I do acknowledge that they can be useful. Ideally, everyone would be born with some kind of moral and common sense that would make most laws pointless. There are a few bad seeds, though.

 

[hotmodelchiq]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dahlia_Rayn People will believe that God gives gifts to everyone, but refuse to believe they blessed some people with the gift of medicine. It's pure ignorance to let a girl die from something that has been treatable for so long. I understand not trusting the medical community sometimes, but sometimes having faith means having faith in the people who God puts here to help us.

This reminds me of a story that we all probably know... A man was drowning in an ocean. He prayed and asked God to save him and suddenly a boat came and threw out a lifesaver. The man refused and said don't worry God will save me. Then a helicopter flew overhead and threw out a ladder. The man refused and said don't worry God will save me. Finally a ship came by and the man refused that help as well. The man drowned and found himself in heaven. He was outraged with God and asked him: I prayed and prayed and I just knew you would save me, why didn't you? God said but I did... I sent you a boat, a helicopter, and a ship but you refused my help.
God tries to send us help all the time but we don't accept it because we are to smart for out own good. God gave different people talents to use them to help his children... us.

 

[vanillaa]

Quote:

Originally Posted by hotmodelchiq This reminds me of a story that we all probably know... A man was drowning in an ocean. He prayed and asked God to save him and suddenly a boat came and threw out a lifesaver. The man refused and said don't worry God will save me. Then a helicopter flew overhead and threw out a ladder. The man refused and said don't worry God will save me. Finally a ship came by and the man refused that help as well. The man drowned and found himself in heaven. He was outraged with God and asked him: I prayed and prayed and I just knew you would save me, why didn't you? God said but I did... I sent you a boat, a helicopter, and a ship but you refused my help. God tries to send us help all the time but we don't accept it because we are to smart for out own good. God gave different people talents to use them to help his children... us.

You know what, I totally agree with this! Couldn't have said it better

 

[Aprilrobin]

Faith, schmaith...

Religion is a choice and this situation was neglect pure and simple, there's no excuse.

These parents need to be charged. Where is the line drawn in the name of faith?

What if my faith told me to throw my kids off a bridge, slowly poison them, give them to adults as sexual servants?

I don't care what adults do in the name of their faith. Go ahead and set yourself on fire, play with dangerous snakes, starve yoursef - have at it.

Children need to be protected by the law. Against your faith? To effing bad I say.

 

[frocher]

......

 

[purrtykitty]

Quote:

Originally Posted by frocher UPDATE The parents have been charged. The Associated Press: Wis. parents who prayed as diabetic daughter died charged ABC News: Praying Parents Charged With Homicide

Awesome...throw the book at 'em. No excuse for stupidity. And I'm really tired of the "but it's our religion" excuse.

 

[frocher]

........

 

[purrtykitty]

Quote:

Originally Posted by frocher Agreed. Their actions were completely negligent. If convicted, they each face up to 25 years in prison.

Again, awesome. At this point, I feel like an example needs to be made out of these negligent parents. Do I feel a bit sorry for them? Sure, the lost their daughter. But I really feel like the magnitude of responsibility that is being a parent has been lost in these past few years and that it would really serve society well to see a jury say, "Hey...you chose to bear children, now it's up to you to provide for every need, emotionally, physically, medically, etc. You did a crap job and your daughter died, so now you must suffer the consequences." I'm praying for an unsympathetic jury.

 

[sofabean]

i don't think they should be convicted. they were only doing what they thought would help (even if i or the rest of us don't agree with it). the only thing i can't imagine is that they let their daughter suffer for 30 days. it says she was probably nauseated, vomitting, and all that jazz. they let her suffer... and that's really sad.