Gunmen with hostages at a high school

Beauty Mark

Well-known member
What that school (and other schools) needs to do now is have a lockdown policy and install cameras. You can only enter the school through one or two entrances and cameras are monitored everywhere so that a group of trained persons can observe what's going on in the school.

Arming teachers would be foolish, unless they went through training. I think schools should have police on campus to handle things like this.
 

Raerae

Well-known member
I think there is currently ANOTHER school on lockdown because of a gun threat. Saw it on breaking news on HLNews.
 

Hawkeye

Well-known member
However, if guns were removed-stabbing would get a mention. As would hanging onself, jumping off of a building, car wrecks etc.

What many people do not realize is that a gun is nothing more than a tool.

It is nothing more than a knife, a pair of scissors, a pen. If you know how to use it properly then it can indeed be very helpful. I have guns, I go to a shooting range every now and then and I enjoy it. However, I also know how to use it and the proper way to handle it.

It's called Personal responsibility.

The problem that lies within many peoples opinions of how bad guns are etc is that they fail to take into the account of personal responsibility. The government-any government should not be allowed to tell you if you can or cannot own a gun. They should not be allowed to put regulations on gun control etc.

The person who is holding the gun is the one that is taking responsibility. Not the gun itself.

Think of it this way. A gun is an inanimate object. It cannot think, it cannot move it cannot do anything except sit there. It cannot say one day-oh i think I'm going to just randomly go off and see if the bullet inside of me will hit someone or not.

Guns-the actual object cannot do that. What can? Who can? Man. Man is the only one who can sit and rationalize. It's not the guns fault some guy decided he wanted to shoot people. It's the guy's fault.

Also everyone is quick to say guns cause accidental deaths! Again it's not the gun its the improper handling of the gun. I tell the folks on here I have a knife, I carry it around with me, I know how to use it if need be. However someone who doesn't know how to use it chances are it will get turned on them and they can get hurt if in a struggle.

Accidents happen every day of our natural lives. You get in car accidents, you get in poison control accidents, heck you even can get into an accident by tripping over your dishwasher drawer and landing on a knife pointed up.

The moment the government decided to say-ok guns are outlawed in America, I will guarentee the same amount of deaths will occur because #1 of the black market and #2, again its the thought process of the crazy guy who likes to kill people. He doesn't have a gun ok what else can he use?

You gave two good websites and I applaud you for actually giving websites (SEE PEOPLE-when I hammer in to do your own research?!-LOL) ! I am very THRILLED you did actually it shows you did your homework
smiles.gif


I'm a huge fan of the CDC so I'm not going to sit here and argue with that. I agree that guns should NEVER EVER EVER be used unless you know how to handle them. But the moment our government goes and takes away the guns-it will begin the decline of the American freedom that the Americans hold so dear.

And one website you stated in Austrialia-I realize you were making a comparison but we also got to realize that in Austrailia there are a lot fewer people there than in the US which will skew the numbers drastically but also it's hard for either one of us to understand where the other stands.

Obviously case in point: I'm from the South Eastern U.S. We use guns. We know how to use them. We go hunting. We can defend ourselves. We use it for how it is intended to be. We sleep with guns by our bed in case we get broken into.

You are from Austrailia where I have never been. I have no idea what conditions are like in your country, I have no idea your daily life. I have no idea your culture except what I've read in books or from what other people have told me.

So even though you gave me the comparison (and again you did great by giving me resources!) We're looking at 2 very seperate countries with different population and different cultures.

AND believe it or not there are very different cultures here in the US. Many will agree with you where as many will agree with me. Again it's the different cultures. I'm from the South we live like this. Many in the west live like this. New York, California probably not so much esp. in the Major cities where you're right they have no use for guns unless it is a hobby to collect and they go hunting every now and then.

It's a catch 22 situation.
 

Beauty Mark

Well-known member
I think you're correct about personal responsibility with a lot of situations. I've known careless gunowners (leaving the cabinets unlocked, letting their kids know where the key is), but I've also known really responsible ones.

I think guns, to a certain extent, make it a lot easier to kill someone. I know I'm being idealistic, but I'd prefer to get to the root of the problem (people being nuts) vs. the means (weapons.)
 

Bre

Well-known member
Ok I don't want to go on about it too much but.. I don't believe the cultures in Australia and US are that different, we are both Multi-cultural, we seem to value the same things, enjoy the same kinds of entertainment, fight for the same "in-justices"... or our governments do but I'll leave that one.

One major difference (IMO) is the gun laws that exist in the two countries. I hate to get statistical but if I have too

US Population - 299 858 644

(http://www.census.gov/)


Aust. Population - 20 671 535

(http://www.abs.gov.au/Ausstats/[email protected]!OpenDocument)


Given that Australia represents 7% of the American Population
(20 671 535 / 299858 644 x 100 = 6.89%)

And that US firearm fatalities are statistically 35 000 per annum (ref. in previous post)

7% of US firearm fatalities can be represented as 2450
(35000 / 100 x 7 = 2450)

Therefore the comparison:

Australia 290 firearm fatalities (ref in previous post)
USA 2450 firearm fatalities

I don’t want to harp on but I do want to say within in a nation where firearms are so easily and frequently obtainable would you expect to find more firearm fatalities? Absolutely
 

kimmy

Well-known member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beauty Mark
What that school (and other schools) needs to do now is have a lockdown policy and install cameras. You can only enter the school through one or two entrances and cameras are monitored everywhere so that a group of trained persons can observe what's going on in the school.

Arming teachers would be foolish, unless they went through training. I think schools should have police on campus to handle things like this.


there's a police shortage in 80% of the country as it is. having a police presence at schools would be ideal, but it just isn't very realistic. neither is arming the teachers, i know. BUT, armed (and obviously trained, i'm not saying just give everyone and their mother a firearm) teachers would be able to take care of something like this if it were to happen again.
 

*Stargazer*

Well-known member
I think, that in this case, the argument about gun control and about bullying of students is entirely irrelevant.

This guy was an old man. A pervert who wanted to sexually assault some young women and probably realized that the best place to find them in numbers was at a school. This had nothing to do with being bullied in school and taking it out on classmates, nor does it really have anything to do with access to guns. If this guy intended to sexually assault a woman that day, he was going to get it done regardless.

Count me among the people that aren't sad that he offed himself. Would have been nice if he'd done with before molesting all of the girls and sexually assaulting at least two of them.
 

Hawkeye

Well-known member
Bre, I am *LOVING* the fact that you are giving me websites. I LOVE IT!
smiles.gif


I dont think anyone is disputing the fact that is common sense though. If you have more guns you will have more gun related fatalities. That's common sense. The moment you take away the guns other forms of murders will go up.

And again the cultures-on the surface they are not that different. On the grand scheme of things they look pretty equal . However on a much smaller scale it is very different. The cultures (as indicated in a previous post) are much different within the US. EX: I'm from a small town in Georgia. We let our dogs sleep outside, we all own guns, we go hunting etc. It's just a different culture, I wear jeans and a t-shirt on a daily basis, my hair is always up. I go into ATL or if I fly up to NYC I'm going to wear makeup and dress a little bit nicer and I'm also going to be watching everyone around me. They are a very different culture to me.

And then even looking inside NYC is going to be a bunch of different cultures. You will have the upperclass, you're going to have those who go to a club, you're going to have the art culture you're going to have a culture in Harlem etc. So it's one of those things. I know it seems strange but the cultures really do influence the use of guns.

Another intresting thing is the CDC report you gave was from 93 we can both agree the fatalities are much higher.
 

JULIA

Well-known member
There have been 4 school shootings since the school year began. Three of those in the last two weeks. There was one on Wednesday and one today in Wisconsin.
What a world.
 
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