Hate Crime In Cicero

[Dizzy]

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Originally Posted by wolfsong If a man who hated black women raped a black woman, then I can’t believe that the race and gender of the 'victim'* wasn’t an issue or - at least in part - a motivation for such an act.

Yes, but again, they are innocent until proven guilty. So along with proving the other charges, the prosecutor now has to prove that the motive in the case was race/gender/etc. baised, and how that particular bias applied in this case. It can then be used as a precedent and someone who believes in racially separated groups and only sticks to their own group commits a crime, theft for argument's sake, and they happen to find out that the person they stole from isn't of their group. How can we prove that he knew that person wasn't of his group? How can we prove that the motive to take it was group-based and not just a coincidence? And how can we make sure that hate crime statutes don't create a "protected class" of citizens who are so protected that to commit a crime against them would result in the original charges PLUS 'hate crime' charges?

It's a slippery slope here- but like I said, the idea of it is nice, but implementation of it just leaves too much open to debate.

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Its not illegal to be prejudiced, nor is it illegal to voice beliefs. It is illegal to ACT on this prejudice, and to discriminate (outside of legal loopholes).

Yes but it's the ACT that we all have a problem with, the motive is secondary and needs to be proven. The initial charge isn't "You (Gayman1) hate him (Straightman1)"- it's murder, manslaughter, theft, assault, etc.

But you're going to have to PROVE that the bias is what caused the crime, thus making the crime worse, and not just that the person is prejudiced, which would have nothing to do with the crime itself. It's not illegal to be prejudice and it will never be- our Constitution grants us the freedom to free speech (with concise limitations), freedom to associate with whom we please, freedom to choose and abide by our own religion so long as their allegiance with said religion doesn't cause someone else's rights to be violated, etc.

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I agree that its lovely that a group of people with obvious differences in opinions can hold an adult discussion on a serious topic, and raise valid points - rather than slag each other off.

It's part of what makes Specktra great and unique

 

[wolfsong]

I agree about the 'protected class' issue - and that prejudice can come from all sources; black people can be prejudiced against white people, women against men, gay people against straight etc. I guess its just down to population ratio that its more common for it to be against a minority.

Its down to the law system and cops as to whether the act is considered a 'hate crime' or not - and they have the means and skills to hopefully charge for the right thing.
Yes there are circumstances of someone being charged with a crime they didnt commit, or a prejudiced crime when that wasnt the case, but these instances seem to be rare. Someone i know was in prison because a 15 year old pretended they had had sex and got him charged with statutory rape. He had a baby at the time that belonged to an ex, and this falsehood did a lot of damage. This obviously wasnt a 'hate crime' but i can see how being charged as one could be damaging to someone, and the sentence would probably be longer than if it were 'just a crime'.