Homeschooling...

[xxsgtigressxx]

I dont think homeschooling is all bad, but I would have hated my parents if they homeschooled me. Im sorry, but I went to a private all girls hs and as much fun as I did have, I still got sad missing out on not having my own school have a football team so i could go to the games, I got sad that we didnt have a prom or homecoming queen or not having a huge awesome graduation, we had such an "elegant" one that was nice and all but there were definitely times where I was jealous at all the things everyone else was doing. Thats just my take on it. The kids might be socialized and all, but in my opinion there are certain rites of passage that one can only experience going to an actual hs, and as much as some might say they dont care about missing those things, I cant help but thing that every single homeschooled child is ok with missing out on certain things.

 

[lovekrumpet]

In terms of homeschooled children "missing out on rites of passage" in most areas that's just not true. If the child wants to be involved in those "rites of passage" they tend to have ample opportunity to participate.

For the four different events you mentioned - prom, homecoming, football games, and graduation - I have seen homeschool groups put on every single one. I've been to three homeschool proms, one winter formal, one valentine's dance, two football games at the local highschool, and the graduation of a couple of friends (I chose to not have any sort of ceremony). These sorts of activities are quite common in most areas, mine isn't an exception or anything =)

Personally I find conformity to be bad in every single case. Choices, from the every day ones we make to the monumentally important ones, should be made for the right reasons and not for "trying to fit in" or "following the set standards". I think that decisions should be based on the individual and not on a group of individuals (and certainly not one so wide as children).


And lastly, as for Beauty Mark's post about her experiences with being a TA. I'm sorry if you've really and truly never had a good experience with a homeschooled child. You can't expect them to act like every other child in a classroom, however. That doesn't give them a right to have an attitude, but they haven't been raised in a regular school curriculum so they're having to adjust to a new system, something you might want to keep in mind ^.~
As for your saying a student "must" learn ____ so that they don't get screwed when they go to college, most children do learn that. Unschoolers don't learn solely from their parents knowledge, they learn on their own and their parents support them and help to learn and understand. My parents bought me the Saxxon Math (a respected math book, used in public/private school curriculum) series of books when I was interested in math in order to help my learning, but when I grew tired with it they never forced me to keep going.
I am in college now and I don't feel "gimped" or like I don't have the education the other students have, on the contrary, I feel gifted. Not in terms of intelligence, but in terms of desire. I want to be in college. My parents didn't force me into the institution, and so since it's my own desire, I choose the classes I need for my degree as well as the ones I'm interested in, I study and do my homework, I have the desire to succeed as compared to some of the people I know who are simply there because their parents want them to be there.

 

[mreichert]

I was home-schooled throughout high school, and I turned out fine

I scored 1200 on SAT's and had an excellent GPA with a VERY full load throughout college.

My parents decided to home school me as the violence and disrespect that was going on in the public high school was getting horrible, and some things that were being taught went against our personal beliefs.

It really does depend on the parents- I have known some parents that got lazy about teaching, and their children were far behind in their education.

It's a decision that each parent has to make based on what's best for their children.

 

[Nikki_L]

this is an awesome thread. i actually researched and considered homeschooling because we live in an area where the schools are poor, and my husband and i were very well educated. we are also very religious, but share the same ideas as many as far as socializing and exposing kids to things. life will not always be as cozy as our little "womb." however, we decided to send the kids to a good private school. i support homeschooling done well, though. the ca case saddens me b/c govt. is getting too much of a heavy hand in our lives. oh well! great thread, though.

 

[xsnowwhite]

i would love to be unschooled. I hate school.

I dont see any problems with either at all but I know many people that do.

 

[Beauty Mark]

Quote:

Originally Posted by persephonewillo in an effort to keep this objective... you've been a TA for two terms, how many homeschooled kids have you worked with? personally, i have a feeling you see them as all those negetive things because they might not be happy to just follow like sheep (correct me if i'm wrong). i don't see anything wrong with children having say in their education and lives. they are people too. why do we assume children would feel content to constantly be told what to do, when to do it, what to learn and when, etc, when the majority of adults would go insane being treated that way? sorry... i think the statement you made that you'd rather have less intelligent children to deal with who didn't have attitudes rubbed me the wrong way. i thought the goal of schools was to create intelligent human beings... not sheep.

Actually none of the students I TA are homeschooled, best of my knowledge. They may be, they not be. I generally talk to them about whatever they're majoring in, if they have jobs, etc. These are kids I knew through activities, through other means in high school, gone to college with them, family friends. I've known them for years; this isn't the result of me seeing students for about 7 months or so. I don't care for them as people, and I haven't seen any growth in their character. It's not a huge sampling, but I also don't actively seek to befriend or know people because of their education. I feel like their intellect is deeply stunted because of their inability to understand an opposing argument, such as why some people vote Republican and to see that they aren't evil, just Republicans. I actually do have a particular person in mind in this argument regarding Republicans. I have one person in particular in mind with this example about Republicans; she is actually quite intelligent (I believe she went full ride to a good school), but I feel like her parents not exposing her to different thoughts and having such a black and white view of an ideology isn't good for her. I feel like she and to a lesser extent, her brother, are the epitome of sheep.

When I talk thinking about education lately, I've been thinking about it in all contexts. Grading vs. grading, open curriculum vs. curriculum with gen requirements...

I don't feel like you should follow the crowd, and I also feel like a lot of things you learn at school are not necessarily education-related but life lessons. I think you can get them other places, but I believe a lot of the time, public school forces you to deal with things you do not want to but are unfortunate parts of life. While school exists primarily to educate people in the main subjects, I think people also get a lot more out of it. I learned how to work with unmotivated people at a young age, I learned to hold my head high up against teasing, I learned how to assert myself. I'm not pretending these lessons are unique to public or private school, but I know my parents would have tried to shield me from that or not place me in situations where people would be that way. Education-wise, science labs are difficult to run unless the parents are particularly organized or utilize the schools.

I don't think homeschooling necessarily creates independent thought (for instance, people who homeschool their children to shield them from considering evolution as a viable explanation), nor do I believe going to a typical high school does, either. I think it largely depends on the individual, the parents, etc.

Regardless, if I were to have children, I'd rather have a retarded child who was loving and kind than a child who was a jerk but genius. Ideally, you'd want to have a nice, smart intelligent child (and no, I do not believe those things are independent of each other), but if you had to make a pick, I'd pick a nice but not bright child.

I really do believe ultimately that it boils down to the individual and the parents. I honestly have not had a good experience with someone who has been home-schooled. I don't have a prejudice against people who are home schooled, I'm just stating a fact, much like I have not seen an episode of Criminal Intent that's interested me. I'm open to it, and I believe it's possible, but it simply has not been my experience as of today. It may change tomorrow, it may never change.

 

[AppleDiva]

Quote:

Originally Posted by elegant-one As this is being posted today, I believe the California Court has ruled that the person doing the home schooling must be an accredited teacher not just a parent. I don't have all the details, just heard it on the fly this afternoon. Once again, the Government just cannot stay out of personal lives. The more options all of us have, the better off we are to make our own decisions with our own lives.

I think this may be a good idea. I am familiar with home correspondence programs (online as well) where students can learn @ home and they send their homework to an accredited teacher to grade, which is probably the best of both worlds. There are also great online tutorial programs, so as long as there is room for flexible with the parent, homeschooling should not be too restricted.

At the same time,poor education is a societal problem (not just a personal issue), so I am ok with a state government creating some type of regulation.

 

[persephonewillo]

thanks for the clarification Beauty Mark

i thought, in your original post, you were talking about kids you were TAing. my apologies for reading that wrong

 

[SparklingWaves]

Questions -

1) When someone choses to home school their child, who is making up for the lost income?

Example - My mother said her church was collecting money for this lady that was homeschooling her children. They were doing this every month.

2) Is the parent required to have a four year degree?

3) What other requirements are made of the parent?

 

[pumpkincat210]

Quote:

Originally Posted by SparklingWaves Questions - 1) When someone choses to home school their child, who is making up for the lost income? Example - My mother said her church was collecting money for this lady that was homeschooling her children. They were doing this every month. 2) Is the parent required to have a four year degree? 3) What other requirements are made of the parent?

The laws differ from state to state, but i have heard of plenty of homeschooled children that were also on welfare.

 

[pumpkincat210]

Quote:

Originally Posted by AppleDiva I think this may be a good idea. I am familiar with home correspondence programs (online as well) where students can learn @ home and they send their homework to an accredited teacher to grade, which is probably the best of both worlds. There are also great online tutorial programs, so as long as there is room for flexible with the parent, homeschooling should not be too restricted. At the same time,poor education is a societal problem (not just a personal issue), so I am ok with a state government creating some type of regulation.

I agree to some extent that there should be regulations concerning homeschooling. I don't think you should have to be an accredited teacher though. Don't you have to have a 4 year degree to be a teacher? Some people are smart and capable of teaching their children but don't have degrees.
I think some sort of competency test should be given to the parents that are going to be homeschooling their children.

 

[taiwanesegurl]

I've never gave homeschooling much thought, but this thread has got me thinking.

Personally I'm a product of a OK public school system. I did well on the standardized tests including the SATs, had a decent GPA, went to a good school, graduated, etc. But I don't think it was my school that carried me throughout, since I did have extra tutoring through out almost my entire education. My parents were also very supportive of me learning, not just by paying for the extra tutoring, but also buying more educational books for me.

I am very 50/50 about public schooling because I did get very bored with certain subjects by my junior year in high school, and by my senior year, I thought time spent in school was a joke. My goal was to pass the AP exams, which I did by studying during my own time. I got Cs in the AP classes where I ended up scoring 4s or 5s on the test! I however, ended up getting an A in AP Literature, the only AP test I didn't pass.

However, being in the public school environment did teach me a lot. It taught me how to handle competition since everyone was competing against each other, and that did help throughout college. It also taught me how to interact with a diverse group of people. I also got to test my leadership abilities by joining different clubs on campus.

But in all honesty, my parents and I had no idea about other schooling options. We are first generation immigrants, with my dad still working overseas and my mom working full time. We just did what other people we know did, which was attend the local public school. Had I known about all the other options (homeschooling, unschooling, independent schooling), I would have wanted to try it out.

Maybe I'll homeschool my kids in the future if I somehow become very stinky rich and don't have to hold a full time job!

 

[pumpkincat210]

Quote:

Originally Posted by persephonewillo personally, i have a feeling you see them as all those negetive things because they might not be happy to just follow like sheep (correct me if i'm wrong). i don't see anything wrong with children having say in their education and lives. they are people too. why do we assume children would feel content to constantly be told what to do, when to do it, what to learn and when, etc, when the majority of adults would go insane being treated that way?

I don't agree with this. Kids going to regular school aren't "sheep". Just because they are being taught in a larger group doesn't make it bad. For many people homeschooling is not an option because of the laws or the fact they have to work to support their family instead of having to be on state money.
In school we weren't constantly told what to do but we did have structure. Structure is a fundamental and sometimes intangible notion covering the recognition, observation, nature, and stability of patterns and relationships of entities.(definition) The kids that went to my school were very diverse. Some people conformed to certain ideas, some didn't. Plenty of productive and independent people graduated in my class. I considered myself to be non-conformist for the most part and be a free thinker.
Most adults in today's society have to conform at some point in their life. it's just life. Conformity is not necessarily a bad thing all the time, sometimes we need it to get things done, plain and simple.
I don't agree with unschooling. I believe children need a pattern set out for them especially at a young age. They need to be able to learn to take direction from others. What if they become unmotivated and bored? Gaps in skills can occur, finding a job may be more difficult, they don't get experience with people of other cultures, if the child is the leader in teaching how are they to know essential skills? Is their social behavior going to be behind or are they going to be ahead and still be at a disadvantage because they don't have true peers?
I can see how unschooling would work but it would take extreme devotion and highly intelligent parents to pull it off.

 

[persephonewillo]

Quote:

They need to be able to learn to take direction from others. What if they become unmotivated and bored? Gaps in skills can occur, finding a job may be more difficult, they don't get experience with people of other cultures, if the child is the leader in teaching how are they to know essential skills? Is their social behavior going to be behind or are they going to be ahead and still be at a disadvantage because they don't have true peers?

you have a very strange view of unschoolers

as if they're kept hidden and locked in the house 24/7 with no rules whatsoever and no social contact with the outside world at all.

we unschool. there IS structure to it and to our lives. unschooling does not mean there are NO rules, etc. my kids have chores, etc, they have tasks they must do even if they don't want to. it's part of life

as for not experiencing people of other cultures... how is that even possible in today's world? people of other cultures are all around us. in our everyday lives we talk to people of multiple ethnic backgrounds

and not having true peers? personally, my kids have friends. they deal with the same issues that arise with friends in public schools. there are the usual arguments, there is the competition between friends, there is sharing, taking turns, etc, etc, etc. my kids also socialize with people in other age groups... my daughter (11) attends a weekly knitting night where everyone is over 30. (i'm not saying kids in public schools don't socialize with people in other age groups... i'm just giving examples of how unschooled kids aren't as socially deprived as you might think they are

)

becoming unmotivated and bored? everyone goes through that. adults, children, publicly schooled kids, people in steady full time jobs. it's also part of life. when it happens in our house we let it happen for a day or two and then one of us (my husband or myself) will jumpstart things again by pulling out new books, etc, or things they haven't done in a while... or putting on a new documentary... or discussing an issue in the news together... etc, etc, etc. yes... they lead their education. but that doesn't mean they have the option to slack off for weeks on end just because they feel like it.

a big part of unschooling is trust. i trust that my kids have a natural urge to learn, they trust that i will be there and provide resources when they ask for help. people seem to assume kids will not learn if they aren't made to learn. this isn't true. kids don't want to be stupid. they want to fit in, they want to KNOW.

 

[persephonewillo]

Quote:

Originally Posted by SparklingWaves Questions - 1) When someone choses to home school their child, who is making up for the lost income? Example - My mother said her church was collecting money for this lady that was homeschooling her children. They were doing this every month. 2) Is the parent required to have a four year degree? 3) What other requirements are made of the parent?

1) we live pretty simply. we don't own our house. we take advantage of a lot of sales. we don't go on yearly vacations. it's something everyone wants, so do what we can to make it work financially

not every household needs two incomes.

2) and 3) laws and requirements vary from place to place. we're lucky to live in Ontario, where the laws are very open and the government has placed trust and responsibility on the parent (as it should be, in my opinion).

 

[pumpkincat210]

Quote:

Originally Posted by persephonewillo you have a very strange view of unschoolers as if they're kept hidden and locked in the house 24/7 with no rules whatsoever and no social contact with the outside world at all. we unschool. there IS structure to it and to our lives. unschooling does not mean there are NO rules, etc. my kids have chores, etc, they have tasks they must do even if they don't want to. it's part of life as for not experiencing people of other cultures... how is that even possible in today's world? people of other cultures are all around us. in our everyday lives we talk to people of multiple ethnic backgrounds and not having true peers? personally, my kids have friends. they deal with the same issues that arise with friends in public schools. there are the usual arguments, there is the competition between friends, there is sharing, taking turns, etc, etc, etc. my kids also socialize with people in other age groups... my daughter (11) attends a weekly knitting night where everyone is over 30. (i'm not saying kids in public schools don't socialize with people in other age groups... i'm just giving examples of how unschooled kids aren't as socially deprived as you might think they are ) becoming unmotivated and bored? everyone goes through that. adults, children, publicly schooled kids, people in steady full time jobs. it's also part of life. when it happens in our house we let it happen for a day or two and then one of us (my husband or myself) will jumpstart things again by pulling out new books, etc, or things they haven't done in a while... or putting on a new documentary... or discussing an issue in the news together... etc, etc, etc. yes... they lead their education. but that doesn't mean they have the option to slack off for weeks on end just because they feel like it. a big part of unschooling is trust. i trust that my kids have a natural urge to learn, they trust that i will be there and provide resources when they ask for help. people seem to assume kids will not learn if they aren't made to learn. this isn't true. kids don't want to be stupid. they want to fit in, they want to KNOW.

It sounds like you have it under control, sounds fun actually. The amount of responsibility you must take on is overwhelming to me. I personally couldn't unschool my kids because I don't want to be a teacher and don't have the patience all the time, haha. How do you feel about being with them most of the day? I like having time in the day when my kids aren't home and there is peace and quiet.
I don't think I could have been unschooled by my parents and know there are alot of parents that shouldn't be teaching their kids but do anyway. I was really surprised that in Texas you don't have to notify anyone you are teaching your kids at home, but you have to teach them reading, spelling, grammar, math, good citizenship. And there are no qualifications needed. That scares me that some kids might be not learning anything. On the other hand i don't want the government involved. IDK

 

[persephonewillo]

Quote:

I personally couldn't unschool my kids because I don't want to be a teacher and don't have the patience all the time, haha. How do you feel about being with them most of the day? I like having time in the day when my kids aren't home and there is peace and quiet.

i'm not always patient... neither are my kids. there are days when we ALL want to run away from each other! LOL

but we're lucky in that my parents usually take my daughter for a sleepover on Fridays (my son is welcome too, but generally prefers to stay home to get a break from his sister).

on Wednesday afternoons i go to a knitting class/social without the kids. they stay home "alone" (we live in a duplex with my MIL. we moved in to help her in her ailing health, but she's turned out to help us more! there is a door between our two houses that stays unlocked so we have easy access to each other if needed. the kids use the door on Wednesday afternoons when MIL is watching them. they're 9 and 11, so they keep themselves occupied but know they can run over to MIL if they need help).

so yeah. most of the time we enjoy each other's company, but like any other relationship, we do need to get away too

 

[AppleDiva]

Quote:

Originally Posted by pumpkincat210 I agree to some extent that there should be regulations concerning homeschooling. I don't think you should have to be an accredited teacher though. Don't you have to have a 4 year degree to be a teacher? Some people are smart and capable of teaching their children but don't have degrees. I think some sort of competency test should be given to the parents that are going to be homeschooling their children.

I agree that is why I said there should be some level of flexibility for the parent. There are some k-12 online options, so parents have to do their homework.

 

[lizardprincesa]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beauty Mark]... Regardless, if I were to have children, I'd rather have a retarded child who was loving and kind than a child who was a jerk but genius. Ideally, you'd want to have a nice, smart intelligent child (and no, I do not believe those things are independent of each other), but if you had to make a pick, I'd pick a nice but not bright child.

Please say you are kidding about the generalizations you've written here.

 

[lizardprincesa]

Thanks for a fascinating thread, one which I ponder almost daily, as my son approaches the Age of School. Many of you have quite enlightened points of view, which have encouraged me to consider my options further. I have been planning on at least partial home-schooling, while being sure to allow my son to explore his potential & to learn socialization with a diverse group of children of his age. I would love for him to be involved in sports, Music, the Arts, (none of these will take a bit of coercion) & possibly even a soft martial art, to help build self-confidence (if all his other interests don't keep him too occupied.)

I have received teacher certification for English 7-12,; I didn't enjoy classroom teaching one bit. I do, however, enjoy teaching my son (he teaches me so much, as well

(Right now, he's playing scales on his piano, while listening to David Bowie

I do not think a parent must be a certified teacher in order to be a great home-schooler! However, I do think I'll need more break time, in order to be patient and energetic (I've had about zero break time since my son was born.)
I believe a parent needs to be a good *parent,* in order to be effective at home-schooling. While children need room to explore, while learning, they also need rules and structure.

I know very little about unschooling, but it is a word. From various posts,
especially yours, persephonewillo, I see unschooling probably receives
undeserved criticism, by uninformed people...

I'm terrified of the violence which occurs in schools, and for that reason, alone,
I may never let my son out of my sight

..but he will want to be out of my sight sometimes;
he is a person!

This thread has inspired me further to explore all options. Thanks to all who've voiced many interesting opinions.
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