Last night's other problem

[Eoraptor]

As if the encounter walking home described in my last post wasn't bad enough, something else from last night is nagging me with negative feelings too. This was more personal and less dangerous, and I don't know if I'm overreacting about it, but it's sorta similar in that it involves being treated as a female.

So I was at my friend Holly's party at her apartment, getting pretty drunk (I had almost finished a fifth of rum). This was the first time I'd met her boyfriend- Gino. Now Gino's a pretty large, loud, aggressive guy. Also very 'traditional' when it comes to gender roles and womens' place in society. I actually don't like him very much and think Holly should find someone better. I've told her that numerous times, but she stays with him in part because she has a submissive personality (and yes, that's relevent). So Gino's joking around a lot about my girliness, mostly being an ass, but I'm drunk and don't want to offend my friend's partner, so I don't do much about it. But at one point, he grabs me and holds me close as if I'm a girl he's going to make out with or something. Then he grabs my breast (I don't have actual large breasts, but he grabs that area) and squeezes and twists it very hard before letting me go. I just let him, partly because I'm drunk and can't think of what to do, but also partly because I have a submissive personality. And when I'm drunk, I'm all that more submissive. I don't like men sexually either- I'm straight. So I'm just holding my breast for a while because it hurt, and I didn't think anything of it the rest of the night.

But when I remembered it this morning, I felt really bad. Ashamed that I let him treat me like that, and hating myself for not fighting against it or saying no or something. Really, anything would have been more respectable than doing nothing. I know we're both guys, and thus supposed to be fine with rough-housing (he later playfully(?) threw me to the ground that night, I don't remember why), but I guess I felt like he was mockingly treating me as a girl. Or mis-treating me, perhaps. I know it's too minor to really count as sexual harrassment, and I don't think I feel violated per se. But I feel really bad regardless. Also, how can I tell Holly again not to stand for a partner who treats women badly when I couldn't even stand up for myself against him? I know he has absolutely no respect for me now (if he had any to begin with), so I don't want to see him again. Especially not if I'm drunk - I don't want the same thing to happen twice. Like I said, maybe I'm overreacting, but it doesn't stop the queasy feeling in my stomach.

Thanks for listening. I needed to get those feelings out.

 

[user6]

oh sweetie, if there's one thing I've learned from growing up in a Mexican household (where all the men are machistas) it's that things like that really aren't your fault, you always feel that maybe you should have done something differently, or tried to avoid that situation, but the truth is boys (and I emphasize BOYS!) like him are just stupid a**holes that don't have respect for people in general, and i'm sure he did those things to humiliate you and make himself feel more macho!

This does count as sexual harassment in my book, because it was unwanted touching, but you know I can't help but think that when my best friend was raped, she blamed it on herself. She kept saying to me, 'I should have screamed!' or 'I should have fought harder!' and then she would think, maybe it wouldn't have happened if she drank less, or if she'd gone home earlier, or if she'd worn pants rather than a skirt.........all these things are factors that could have made for a different outcome, but who really knows, right? it's not your fault, just as much as it wasn't my friend's fault, and the fact that you reacted the way you did doesn't make it any less despicable!

Your friend's boyfriend is a complete jackass, and if your friend is still with him despite this display of grotesque behavior towards you, then maybe you shouldn't be around her so much? Whether she approves of his behavior or not, by not standing up for you, she's just as guilty....and if she still cant see that he is not a Man, or even less a man for her, then that's sad and disrespectful. There's got to be some issues for her to choose a boy like this as a partner, maybe scars from growing up. But despite that, I know you probably feel dirty and disgusted by your own inactions, but don't blame yourself sweetie, just learn to stay away from people like him, and don't let him ruin your day, he's not worth it!

I hope this helps you feel better - even if it's just a little bit! *big hugs, and big smooches* Goodnight!

 

[Shawna]

The thing that really concerns me about the whole incident is that if he treated you that horribly, what is he doing to his girlfriend? If she is submissive (like you said) maybe he is beating the crap out of her and she is too scared of him to do anything about it. You are right, she needs out of that relationship fast

And I am so sorry that he treated you that way because of how you choose to dress. You know, it is really sad because women wear men's clothes and it is considered sexy, but get a guy in a skirt and society freaks out. I'd be so proud if my son wore a skirt

And I really hope that I am raising him to never doubt who he is and let him be the individual he wants to be.

 

[mzcelaneous]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shawna The thing that really concerns me about the whole incident is that if he treated you that horribly, what is he doing to his girlfriend?

and it is sexual harassment. I suggest you check in with your local social service's domestic violence/sexual harassment liason. Two of my best friend's were involved with either a violent partner or family member and the liason was a great big help.

 

[Raerae]

Quote:

Originally Posted by medicredfearn This does count as sexual harassment in my book, because it was unwanted touching

I dunno, seems about par for the course from what I've see when guys who know each other get drunk lol... I think I've seen more strait men grope each other when drunk than gay guys LOL...

God we had these two guys in our circle of friends who were always grabbin each other nipples giving titty twisters (actually a lot more guys i knew did stuff like that now that I think about it, but these two stand out). Slapping each others asses, and having pretend sex if they caught one of the others bent over picking something up off the ground. Thats just the tip of the ice burg, they did worse lol, and a lot more of it included their private parts lol...

They probably got more action from each other than from their girlfriends lol...

 

[Eoraptor]

Thanks so much for the long caring reply, medicredfearn! I do see the parallels to how rape victims can feel, but I know rape is FAR worse than the little touching I went through. I wouldn't want to demean rape victims by claiming my experience was similar. I don't think Holly knows how Gino's actions affected me, since I didn't even realize it until the next morning. As for how Gino treats Holly, from what I know he's only rough with her in bed and/or in a sexual way they both like. Masochism and such. (Of course I wouldn't be saying any of this if it wasn't a private forum) And Raerae's point is exactly why I feared I was overreacting. Guys (especially drunk ones) can get very physical with each other. It's just on Saturday I felt like he was treating me as a girl, and not as a guy. I wouldn't have liked it as a guy either of course. I'd feel really stupid (and whiny, weak, etc.) officially reporting it as sexual harrassment. But thanks for the support, people! At least my breast stopped hurting where he squeezed it today.

 

[Shimmer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by eroraptor Guys (especially drunk ones) can get very physical with each other. It's just on Saturday I felt like he was treating me as a girl, and not as a guy.

You don't say (that I saw) how you were dressed during this encounter...and that, or the guy's knowledge of how you dress, might be a consideration in his actions.
That said, it's not sexual harassment nor sexual attack, it was assault, one person on another. If you had your makeup on and all that, it could be considered the beginning of a hate crime.

 

[Hawkeye]

MAN-lord thats....*HUGS*
That is very much sexual harrassment and NOBODY boy or girl should ever have to deal with that! It's embarressing!!

*HUGS*

 

[Eoraptor]

Quote:

You don't say (that I saw) how you were dressed during this encounter...and that, or the guy's knowledge of how you dress, might be a consideration in his actions.

Blue Victoria's Secret bootcut jeans, gold sparkly girls tee, brown hiking shoes (they don't get ruined at work), foundation, mascara. I wasn't sure who would all be at the party, so I didn't want to embarrass Holly by dressing up too much. Furthermore, it was a 100 degree day and I went to the party after closing at work, so unless I wanted to apply my makeup after work it would have been a mess by the time I got to the party.

Gino certainly knows how I dress, as Holly's told him. At one point during the party he said that he wished I would have worn my pink VS jeans, and he would have kissed me if I had. I replied I thought he wanted to ENcourage me to wear the jeans, not DIScourage me. But I wasn't very drunk yet, so I was still capable of quite a bit of thought.

 

[Shimmer]

assault's assault bro. Do as you feel you need to but remember that in the process you may lose a friend because she's not ready accept what he is.

 

[user79]

What Gino did to you wasn't really sexual assault, but it can certainly be grouped under harrassment or a mild form of assault. In any case, his behaviour is unacceptable and your friend should have stood up for you as well.

Now another part I want to address -

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eoraptor I don't like men sexually either- I'm straight.

Are you absolutely sure about that, or are you maybe afraid of exploring your sexuality to find out if maybe there isn't something else behind your penchant for dressing up in a feminine sort of way? I mean I don't know where exactly you are from but some communities are really closed-minded to gay and transgender issues, is it maybe that your environment is holding you back from expressing your true self? My own sister is a lesbian and recently married a woman, but it took her many years to come to terms with her own sexuality and she didn't come out until she was in her 20s. Don't be afraid of discovering what may lie beneath.

 

[Eoraptor]

Quote:

Are you absolutely sure about that, or are you maybe afraid of exploring your sexuality to find out if maybe there isn't something else behind your penchant for dressing up in a feminine sort of way?

Er.. that's sorta off-topic, but here goes...

Umm... sexuality isn't a simple hetero/homo choice for many people, and I'm no exception. The simple answer is I'm straight. The more complex answer is that I'm only sexually attracted to the feminine bodytype/face/style. Now, there are a very small number of men who I find sexually attractive, but they're always very feminine men. Just like I could find a convincing male crossdresser attractive - because they look like a female. I did have a crush on this guy for several years, but it was a romantic thing, not a sexual one.

Now I've done my share of experimentation *blush* , and er... it's really embarrassing to talk about. I'm rather shy about sexual things. But basically I'm not sexually aroused by men, so sex with them isn't enjoyable in that sense and is impossible in certain combinations. It is slightly enjoyable in the sense that it's a 'girly' thing to do (though the discomfort overrides that). Not that someone has to have sex with men to be femme, but it's a thing FAR more girls do than guys. Regardless, I can't picture being in a relationship with a guy, and the thought of making out with a guy or snuggling up close to one is distasteful. So unless there's some huge mental block, I'm pretty close to being straight.

Nonetheless, is it possible I didn't care about Gino's actions while drunk because I liked getting the kind of attention a girl could get from a guy? Even if it was hurtful attention? Perhaps, but that's not something to be proud of either, and wouldn't help my shame.

Quote:

I mean I don't know where exactly you are from but some communities are really closed-minded to gay and transgender issues, is it maybe that your environment is holding you back from expressing your true self?

I'm from Seattle, which is pretty liberal. I have a few local bisexual friends. My boss is gay. I don't think it's my environment, though that could be holding me back transgender-wise.

Thanks for asking though.

I know my apparent combination of girliness and heterosexuality has confused several of my friends.

 

[Hawkeye]

*HUGS* sweetie, you didn't have to explain all that. We love ya just as you are on here

 

[Raerae]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eoraptor At least my breast stopped hurting where he squeezed it today.

Can i ask why you call it your boob or breast? Are you on hormones or somrthing? Just curious heh...

 

[Eoraptor]

Noo! I'm not on hormones.

I dunno what else I'd call it besides a breast. I mean, saying he grabbed my chest wouldn't be quite right, because that's the entire upper front of the torso. He just grabbed the fatty area around one nipple though, which is the breast, right? Even if they are AAA cup or whatever.

 

[Another Janice!]

They are called breasts on men too.

They can be called pecs (pectoral) too, but that is usually referring to the chest muscles...not the tissue.

My little nephew calls my grandpa's "Man Boobs" lol!

 

[Raerae]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eoraptor Noo! I'm not on hormones. I dunno what else I'd call it besides a breast. I mean, saying he grabbed my chest wouldn't be quite right, because that's the entire upper front of the torso. He just grabbed the fatty area around one nipple though, which is the breast, right? Even if they are AAA cup or whatever.

lol i guess so. Just never heard a guy refer to his chest that way heh...

 

[Raerae]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Another Janice! "Man Boobs"

heh i almost typed that LOL

 

[caffn8me]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Another Janice! My little nephew calls my grandpa's "Man Boobs" lol!

Which I have sometimes heard shortened to "moobs"

 

[Eoraptor]

I don't think I'm muscled enough to call them pecs. I mean, I'm sure the pectoral muscles are in there, but not developed at all. I picture man boobs as being what fat guys have, and I'm not fat at all. I'm determined never to have moobs, even if I one day get boobs.

Ironically, on Monday, I was wearing a tight shiny gray tank to work, and my coworker commented on my bra. And I was like 'what?'. He's cool regarding my crossdressing and said "don't you have a bra on?". I didn't have anything on underneath my top, but he apparently thought my breasts were somewhat prominent. Which is flattering(?), I guess.