Lobotomy - New Depression Cure - NEXT on 60 minutes!

MxAxC-_ATTACK

Well-known member
I find this really interesting. although, Its definitely not something I would ever do,nor is electro-shock therapy(A friend of a friend had it, and now has some even more serious medical problems)
But a VERY interesting read none-the-less.
 

Hawkeye

Well-known member
This is absolutely fascinating but my fear is playing with the human mind. I almost wonder if we can do more harm than good on this.
 

Janice

Well-known member
Is this a nessecery step in surgical advancement to offer more alternatives to the mentally ill? I wonder, I mean that is horrible. It's not like the dr's would be handing out reccomendations for that procedure. There would be an extensive history to even consider BRAIN surgery as a method of treatment.
 

Raerae

Well-known member
Quote:
Originally Posted by youbeabitch
This is absolutely fascinating but my fear is playing with the human mind. I almost wonder if we can do more harm than good on this.

Thats exactly what I worry about. I'm ok with meds, as those can be stopped if a problem happens.

But the more invasive techniques, and permanent. It's like playing russian rulette with your brain. You might come out ok, or you could end up even worse off than before. Because the people doing this stuff, dont know enough.
 

Beauty Mark

Well-known member
I think, from what I know, it's a treatment has a lot of good that could go along with it, as well as a lot of bad. I definitely don't think it's a treatment for many people, and I think all other options should be exhausted before you do something like that. However, I'm not opposed to it, as long as people handle it responsibly
 

little teaser

Well-known member
i saw a program on tv just last week and this guy had a brain tumor and he was a musician (he sings) so the doctors were trying to figure how to cut around the tumor so it wouldnt damage the part of the brain that controls his ability to sing(which was close to the tumor) so they peform the surgery with him awake and had him sing while they were takeing the tumor out so if they touch the part they werent suppose he would go silent and then they would know not to mess with that area.. i thought it was amazeing how they could do that with him awake.
i have to agree with the above post though, i dont think i would want someone takeing chances with my mind what if something went wrong, could you go back and fix it
 

MxAxC-_ATTACK

Well-known member
yeah its one of those procedures where you must be awake during it. just for those particular reasons. talking , singing,breathing, blinking, smiling.. everything. They must do local anesthesia, and since you cant feel your brain, no pain should be felt.
its really weird.
the brain is such a delicate thing though. I dunno if id want someone poking around.. regardless of their degree.
 

little teaser

Well-known member
yeah, dureing the surgery they ask if he was ok and he said i have a headache. i agree i dont want to poke around either but if its a life or death situation what do you really have to lose.
 

Hawkeye

Well-known member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Janice
Is this a nessecery step in surgical advancement to offer more alternatives to the mentally ill? I wonder, I mean that is horrible. It's not like the dr's would be handing out reccomendations for that procedure. There would be an extensive history to even consider BRAIN surgery as a method of treatment.

The thing I'm most concerned about with this is that the mentally ill, I'm not sure they would be able to handle it and even then it would have to be caught as soon as possible. For example autism- it usually shows up about age 3 when things begin regressing. If you let it regress to much some of the information is unsalvageable and could very easily be damaged.

The thing is that we also don't know what the adverse effects are. Sure at first it may be a good thing but what if it makes the person even worse? What if the fatality rates skyrocket? What if it makes a mentally disabled person even more disabled.

I know this sounds just as bad because I would *LOVE LOVE LOVE* it if we could unlock some of the mental disabilities like Autism because they are brilliant though with the nervous system they aren't able to show it. We would have einsteins all over the place! But at the same time, we're talking about things that could trap them even further back then where they are now. Or make them even more violent etc.
 

sharyn

Well-known member
Quote:
Originally Posted by youbeabitch
This is absolutely fascinating but my fear is playing with the human mind. I almost wonder if we can do more harm than good on this.


Thank you. This is what I wanted to say. Finally someone found the words for me.
 

MissMarley

Well-known member
you know what? after suicide attempt #3, I would have welcomed this surgery. Luckily I'm on medicine combo #353419038 and it's finally working, but when you are dealing with depression that stems from no enviromental/personal issues, that won't even let you move or talk, drastic measures tend to sound great.
 

Raerae

Well-known member
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissMarley
you know what? after suicide attempt #3, I would have welcomed this surgery. Luckily I'm on medicine combo #353419038 and it's finally working, but when you are dealing with depression that stems from no enviromental/personal issues, that won't even let you move or talk, drastic measures tend to sound great.

Yeh but you finally found your pharmacutical cocktail that worked. As all of our bodies are different, woulnd't you just suggest more research into providing better prescription solutions, rather than irreversible surgery?
 

lemurian

Well-known member
Members of my family have received both shock treatment and lobotomies, and I feel pretty confident in saying that this sort of treatment is just quackery. Psychology is not a sound science; doctors have no business trying to address emotional or behavioral problems by physically manipulating the brain. I'd consider anyone subjected to such "treatment" basically a labrat. And I don't mean that in a demeaning way, I think the way that psychiatric patients are treated is a crime
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Hawkeye

Well-known member
But many emotional and behavioral problems are based on sound science that it does affect the brain.

I do agree that sometimes the psychology idea is a bunch of craziness but there are some sound scientific proof.
 

lemurian

Well-known member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shimmer
There's a LOT of MEDICAL proof regarding the brain and how it works.

Neurology is wholly different than psychology.
 

moonrevel

Well-known member
Having received my psychology degree from a university that prided itself on having a humanistic/phenomenological program that rejected medical intervention, and at the same time, having needed medical intervention for my own depression, I find myself sort of torn on this issue. In fact, whether you realize it or not, we're playing out an age-old debate in the world of depression treatment between the more scientifically minded and the more philosophically minded.

I think that the social view of depression has changed dramatically in recent years, and some of that has been for the bad as well as the good. On the one hand, our culture (and by "our" I mean American, as I can't speak for other countries) no longer attaches quite so much of a stigma to depression as it once did, and it is more accepting of those who seek treatment. On the other hand, the explosion in medications to treat it has, to a certain extent, undermined the psychological aspect of depression and encouraged many who experience it to take a pill and be done with it.

I know many staunch humanists who say, "someone suffering from depression should step away from the pills and deal with their problems in therapy!" Well, the issue here is that if someone can't get out of bed long enough to face their problems, this isn't going to do much good. I have a problem with any treatment that ignores either the psychological or the medical side of depression, so I feel no different about more radical interventions like surgery or brain implants. I think that the duty of medical intervention is to see that someone with depression is safe from harm and functioning. After that's accomplished, then talk therapy should be applied.

When we imagine things that sound like lobotomy, I think that we envision it like our psychology textbooks explain it: the state orders someone to have a part of his or her brain crudely chopped off to keep him or her from being violent. I don't think that exploring brain surgery to treat depression now is at all akin to that. I would hope that any treatment such as this now would keep the best interests of the patient in mind, and would seek, at all costs, not to mess around with any part of the brain that would affect one's fundamental personality (and on this I feel very strongly: no treatment should seek to cure someone's depression at the risk of losing some part that makes them the person that they are - but I don't know enough about the workings of the brain to speak intelligently on how this looks in brain surgery). But, if medication doesn't work, if therapy isn't working, someone who is deeply frustrated with crippling depression will want to try something, anything else that could help. As long as extensive research is done into any medical intervention (and I still would like to see plenty more work done on this particular treatment), and psychological treatment is still a part of it, I say that we should investigate every avenue possible to help those suffering from depression. Anyone who is depressed will tell you: sometimes it just doesn't make any sense why we feel depressed, and even after years of therapy, I still couldn't tell you with 100% certainty where mine came from. Even without fancy scientific studies, one who feels this way knows in their gut that something more is wrong than "my mother didn't breast-feed me" or "no one understands me," and that wrong is something biological. Talk therapy is GOOD, and it helps you learn how to deal with situations that might trigger a depressive episode, or work out any deeply-rooted problems you have, but you need to be able to get out of bed first. I don't think everyone should be lining up to get their brains operated on, but if someone is seriously out of options, more drastic measures can, and I think must, be considered.

I apologize for this lengthy treatise, but it was something I had to get off my chest. The long and the short of it is: depression hurts. There is a long way we still must go in treating it. If we can help those who really need it by operating on their brains without harming them or altering who they are fundamentally, we should investigate those possibilities while at the same time remembering that we are dealing with real people with real emotions and not just test subjects.

*steps slowly off soapbox*
 

MissMarley

Well-known member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raerae
Yeh but you finally found your pharmacutical cocktail that worked. As all of our bodies are different, woulnd't you just suggest more research into providing better prescription solutions, rather than irreversible surgery?

Honestly, some people never find their cocktail. There were different medications that made me hallucinate, pass out, etc- and that's just my body. Some people can never adjust to psychological medications. And if the surgery can be well researched and proven effective, why not?
 
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