Wow, I must be working at a good counter or something. We have goals to meet as well, but I wouldn't say that any of us feel pressure about it. Maybe because we don't work on commission???? Also, if I was getting paid just slightly more than minimum wage, I probably wouldn't put up with a retail job either...makeup or no makeup. For the most part, I love my job.
MAC's employee turnover rate
- Thread starter allan_willb
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calbear
Well-known member
Quote:
OH NO!! Just the opposite - it can be worse for freelancers. As long as a reg emp is doing okay - they know they have a job tomorrow. As a freelancer, you have to prove yourself daily. You have to have great sales daily or you don't get called back. They look at the situation as this - as a freelancer you don't have to worry about stock or other housekeeping duties so you better be focusing on sales.
Also freelancers have to worry about ticking off reg employees regarding sales rotations. Certain locations allow freelancers to ring their own sales under a 'freelancer' number but other locations require a reg employee to ring the sale and it must be rotated amongst the staff on duty that day. So if you get a bad sale the person it went under may be a little miffed at you (and vice versa if you get a great sale). there can be mounds of drama - no matter how you look at it.
ps and yes you have sales goals
| Originally Posted by KMEFH But, is being a freelancer for MAC different. Like say, you dont have the goal, and all the sales drama right? How does this compare??? |
OH NO!! Just the opposite - it can be worse for freelancers. As long as a reg emp is doing okay - they know they have a job tomorrow. As a freelancer, you have to prove yourself daily. You have to have great sales daily or you don't get called back. They look at the situation as this - as a freelancer you don't have to worry about stock or other housekeeping duties so you better be focusing on sales.
Also freelancers have to worry about ticking off reg employees regarding sales rotations. Certain locations allow freelancers to ring their own sales under a 'freelancer' number but other locations require a reg employee to ring the sale and it must be rotated amongst the staff on duty that day. So if you get a bad sale the person it went under may be a little miffed at you (and vice versa if you get a great sale). there can be mounds of drama - no matter how you look at it.
ps and yes you have sales goals
giz2000
Well-known member
It all depends on the counters you freelance at. I stuck "close to home" and rotate my shifts between 3 counters where I have previously worked with almost everyone there (when I was at Nordies). If the counter staff knows how you work, knows you can sell and likes you, you have it made. We do have sales goals as freelancers, and sometimes (at 1 particular counter) I outsell the regular staff...funny how when I left Nordstrom to freelance, I started selling WAY more than I did when I was permanent.
Retail is about selling. Just because you're a spectacular MA doesn't mean you are above the sales goals, the pressure to meet numbers, etc. I think it's the opposite: because you're that good, you should be selling everything you put on someone's face. In the end, it's all about the numbers...
Retail is about selling. Just because you're a spectacular MA doesn't mean you are above the sales goals, the pressure to meet numbers, etc. I think it's the opposite: because you're that good, you should be selling everything you put on someone's face. In the end, it's all about the numbers...
Liz
Well-known member
for freelancers, you're coming in to do makeup the whole time. especially during events when they would most likely need you. and you need to be doing those makeovers in 30 mins. i heard that sometimes if you take too long, they'll ask you to leave before your shift is up.
we do have sales goals which is why we don't make commission. it is a business, so we have to make money. sometimes we have bad days with sales when people only want one of two things, but sometimes we have really good sales when people want like 4+ things. my manager always says it "comes out in the wash".
some people do move up in the company or transfer to other stores.
but some people just don't like retail or don't want to make retail selling their profession, especially people who may work part-time, so they want to find another job.
we do have sales goals which is why we don't make commission. it is a business, so we have to make money. sometimes we have bad days with sales when people only want one of two things, but sometimes we have really good sales when people want like 4+ things. my manager always says it "comes out in the wash".
some people do move up in the company or transfer to other stores.
but some people just don't like retail or don't want to make retail selling their profession, especially people who may work part-time, so they want to find another job.
circusflavouredgum
Well-known member
Just to add on to what others have already said about the goals etc. It also boils down to the luck of the draw as far as how busy of a counter you get hired for in the first place.
My old store (although it was over a million a year counter) supposedly was one of the slower stores who never made it's goal since the beginning. The company saw this as a problem of the managers and employees so in the 5 and a half years I worked there, we had 6 managers and countless employees. The store was mainly in a business district with a few large hotels so we had mainly office workers and scattered tourist customers. It was nearly impossible to make goal there and you really had to try and hustle, quantity over quality. You have to make way above your goal or you have no hope to be transferred into a better store.
Some people were lucky enough to just hire into one of the busier stores. In my city, the suburban stores that were the only MAC counter close by did phenomenal business. All of the girls from those moved onto managers, freelancers, MAC freestanding, some to MAC Pro. In our area there were 5 stores within about 10 miles, including MAC Pro on Robertson.
It's like someone else said, if you know you have to sell $150 an hour and someone really indecisive who says they're not interested in buying today just wondering what would look good or one of your counters "chronic returners" (all counters have them!) walks up and wants a makeup application then you have to figure out a way to either high pressure force the indecisive person to buy loads of stuff or do a really quick application on the chronic returner just to get rid of them. It's very high stressful, and doesn't always result in the best customer scenario.
I have many times defended salespeople on many forums because people think the salespeople are just greedy or on comission (we weren't) but it's because of the companies goals you are sometimes forced to use your own judgement on who you think is likely to buy the most from you and of course sometimes you'll be wrong! Of course there are just some nasty miserable people who have NO business dealing with the public and no business behind a counter but those usually don't last long, cos if they piss off customers chances are they piss off the managers too.
In a dream world the nicest and sweetest people would also be the ones who buy the most, but of course it doesn't work out that way. Sometimes you spend a long time chatting to a customer cos you click with them, they might just be buying one pencil...or you might have to help someone who is nasty with you but they're buying a lot so you fake it till you make it. It's just unfortunate but a harsh reality of business and retail that you have to make that choice all of the time. You have to know how to be diplomatic above all.
As far as the best artists being the best salespeople..hmm, I'm biased because of the amazing people I worked with but I find them to not USUALLY be one in the same. The ones that I found to be incredible artists were sometimes on the quiet and introspective side, sometimes overly emotional. To be a good salesperson, you have to know how to be 'on' all of the time and 'act'. You drop your problems at the door and are bubbly, outgoing, and perky at all times. For some people, this is impossible and those people can't work in retail too log cos they don't enjoy the act. I've know some unbelievable artists who worked for MAC that have either gone on to do freelance for films, musicians, or gone into stuff like graphic arts and teaching cos retail makeup was too confining for them.
Some of the people who were great salespeople were cute, fun to talk to, had appealing style etc. and the reasons customers liked them was because of their enthusiasm, not because their makeup was always perfect.
Anyway sorry I'm writing a book
but to answer your original question..when I first started they told me there was a 7% turnover rate and when I started all of the employees had been with MAC over 5 years! That was in 1999. When I left, there were all new people and as I said countless managers. Most of the people that left, left the company for good. One of the guys I worked with had been with them ten years. He had 5 weeks paid vacation a year and made more money per hour than the counter manager. He went from making way above his goal to suddenly getting written up all of the time (even though his numbers were way higher than everyone else's). He has since been fired. So come to your own conclusions but it is a business, a retail business.
Some people think it's all fun and games and all playing with makeup or that it's a serious artistry job but I would say, judging from the hires before I left, that it's about 70% sales ability and about 30% artistry ability. They even said when they hire new people "WE hire for personality and train for skill" That's why I always encourage anyone who wants to work for MAC, even if they have no makeup experience to apply. As long as you are bubbly, REALLY good at sales, go in with the right 'look', you will probably get hired. You either have the stomach and the patience for retail sales or you don't. It's not for everyone.
My old store (although it was over a million a year counter) supposedly was one of the slower stores who never made it's goal since the beginning. The company saw this as a problem of the managers and employees so in the 5 and a half years I worked there, we had 6 managers and countless employees. The store was mainly in a business district with a few large hotels so we had mainly office workers and scattered tourist customers. It was nearly impossible to make goal there and you really had to try and hustle, quantity over quality. You have to make way above your goal or you have no hope to be transferred into a better store.
Some people were lucky enough to just hire into one of the busier stores. In my city, the suburban stores that were the only MAC counter close by did phenomenal business. All of the girls from those moved onto managers, freelancers, MAC freestanding, some to MAC Pro. In our area there were 5 stores within about 10 miles, including MAC Pro on Robertson.
It's like someone else said, if you know you have to sell $150 an hour and someone really indecisive who says they're not interested in buying today just wondering what would look good or one of your counters "chronic returners" (all counters have them!) walks up and wants a makeup application then you have to figure out a way to either high pressure force the indecisive person to buy loads of stuff or do a really quick application on the chronic returner just to get rid of them. It's very high stressful, and doesn't always result in the best customer scenario.
I have many times defended salespeople on many forums because people think the salespeople are just greedy or on comission (we weren't) but it's because of the companies goals you are sometimes forced to use your own judgement on who you think is likely to buy the most from you and of course sometimes you'll be wrong! Of course there are just some nasty miserable people who have NO business dealing with the public and no business behind a counter but those usually don't last long, cos if they piss off customers chances are they piss off the managers too.
In a dream world the nicest and sweetest people would also be the ones who buy the most, but of course it doesn't work out that way. Sometimes you spend a long time chatting to a customer cos you click with them, they might just be buying one pencil...or you might have to help someone who is nasty with you but they're buying a lot so you fake it till you make it. It's just unfortunate but a harsh reality of business and retail that you have to make that choice all of the time. You have to know how to be diplomatic above all.
As far as the best artists being the best salespeople..hmm, I'm biased because of the amazing people I worked with but I find them to not USUALLY be one in the same. The ones that I found to be incredible artists were sometimes on the quiet and introspective side, sometimes overly emotional. To be a good salesperson, you have to know how to be 'on' all of the time and 'act'. You drop your problems at the door and are bubbly, outgoing, and perky at all times. For some people, this is impossible and those people can't work in retail too log cos they don't enjoy the act. I've know some unbelievable artists who worked for MAC that have either gone on to do freelance for films, musicians, or gone into stuff like graphic arts and teaching cos retail makeup was too confining for them.
Some of the people who were great salespeople were cute, fun to talk to, had appealing style etc. and the reasons customers liked them was because of their enthusiasm, not because their makeup was always perfect.
Anyway sorry I'm writing a book
Some people think it's all fun and games and all playing with makeup or that it's a serious artistry job but I would say, judging from the hires before I left, that it's about 70% sales ability and about 30% artistry ability. They even said when they hire new people "WE hire for personality and train for skill" That's why I always encourage anyone who wants to work for MAC, even if they have no makeup experience to apply. As long as you are bubbly, REALLY good at sales, go in with the right 'look', you will probably get hired. You either have the stomach and the patience for retail sales or you don't. It's not for everyone.
Lorelai
Well-known member
Quote:
My friend recently expressed her desire to work for the company simply because she loves the idea of playing with Mac products (not to mention her biggest motivation is the employees discount). The concept of personal and company goals is foreign to her, as is the sales ability.
Thank you for your detailed post, circusflavouredgum! I fully intend on linking her to this thread, in hopes of her understanding a bit more about what employees deal with daily.
| Originally Posted by circusflavouredgum Some people think it's all fun and games and all playing with makeup or that it's a serious artistry... |
My friend recently expressed her desire to work for the company simply because she loves the idea of playing with Mac products (not to mention her biggest motivation is the employees discount). The concept of personal and company goals is foreign to her, as is the sales ability.
Thank you for your detailed post, circusflavouredgum! I fully intend on linking her to this thread, in hopes of her understanding a bit more about what employees deal with daily.
aznmacboi
Member
Quote:
PREACH IT, hun! Everything you said was on the nose, especially about that one person who does outrageous sales and brags about their AUS/IPT and creates so much drama due to their immaturity but coincidentally, is the same person who shows up a lot on the return log.
| Originally Posted by pinkfeet Retail - that says it all. I cant tell you how many of my friends complain to me about working there, they thought it would be so much better on the "other side " ( vs working at Clinique or Estee or Lancome ) and while some bennies are better its still the same, you have to book, do makeover, deal with bitchy clients, teenage girls who come with - can you do my eyes? and buy nothing but take up tons of time, clean all day, work crap hours and esp at holiday times and depending on your location it can be til 11 or 12am! And it is about selling, not always about makeup, you have to sell more than one item, you have to link and bridge the sale, the brushes, the skincare, the new stuff, etc etc. and put on a whole bunch of foundation on someone for an hour and they still hate it. Its not glamourous at all, not even at mac unless maybe your doing runway and even then I am sure the models are bitchy. And your sales goals well, sometimes you will do anything to meet them, your managers riding your ass, some days are awesome, some are bad. Sure a lot of your co-workers will help - and then you always have the ones that dont, the ones that create drama. There is one at every counter. For some reason they get away it and they stay there for 20 years too. |
PREACH IT, hun! Everything you said was on the nose, especially about that one person who does outrageous sales and brags about their AUS/IPT and creates so much drama due to their immaturity but coincidentally, is the same person who shows up a lot on the return log.
glamella
Well-known member
I didn't work for MAC, but I did for Lancome. I loved the makeup and talking to people, BUT I hated having pre-sell can call for sales. Everytime Lancome had a GWP (which was always) you had to pre-sell products. The problem was that the products weren't LE, so people didn't see the value of it since the GWPs never ran out, and were basically al the same. I made good commission, but I left because it was too much about sales and not enough about do makeup.
allan_willb
Well-known member
circusflavouredgum your post was very well stated.Thank you.
Okay guys I have another question!!!!So If you just want to do freelance or be on the pro artist team (in other words just be on the top and only do make-up NO RETAIL) and don't want to stay with mac for 5,6,7,8 years and move up and up from on-call, perm MA,product specialist,counter manager,store manager or even a trainer....could you just go to some make up school for a few years and apply like on the pro artist team?
Okay guys I have another question!!!!So If you just want to do freelance or be on the pro artist team (in other words just be on the top and only do make-up NO RETAIL) and don't want to stay with mac for 5,6,7,8 years and move up and up from on-call, perm MA,product specialist,counter manager,store manager or even a trainer....could you just go to some make up school for a few years and apply like on the pro artist team?
giz2000
Well-known member
The people on the PRO team (Gordon Espinet, etc) have been with MAC for years...they worked their way from counter person to trainer to senior trainer, etc. and now strictly work as artists. MAC doesn't hire directly for the PRO team. As I understand it, it is a privilege to be on that team, and the people who are there put in their time (on top of being amazng artists!).
If that's what you want to do (just artistry) you might want to consider "doing your time" at a counter or as a freelancer (which, by the way, I prefer WAY over being permanent, except for no gratis or discount...but you have flexibility) for experience and then apply with an agency...there are a lot of MAC freelancers that I work with that are with agencies and they are always working on fashion shoots, movies, videos, etc. (this being Miami, there's always something going on here).
Circusflavoredgum nailed the whole retail thing on the head...that's exactly what it's like working retail, and it's not for everyone...
If that's what you want to do (just artistry) you might want to consider "doing your time" at a counter or as a freelancer (which, by the way, I prefer WAY over being permanent, except for no gratis or discount...but you have flexibility) for experience and then apply with an agency...there are a lot of MAC freelancers that I work with that are with agencies and they are always working on fashion shoots, movies, videos, etc. (this being Miami, there's always something going on here).
Circusflavoredgum nailed the whole retail thing on the head...that's exactly what it's like working retail, and it's not for everyone...
galvanizer
Well-known member
Quote:
Wow, that sounds like me, lol!
I work for Lancome right now and that's exactly my beef too (and on my first MAC interview I commended them for NOT having GWP which trains customers to only buy when there's a gift and take you away from the counter making phone calls ~ blah! I'm not in with MAC yet, but I haven't lost hope.
I do notice that a lot of the staff at my store have been the same for years, while other counters seem to have an even higher turnover rate. IME, MAC's 'employee satisfaction' appears higher than other counters. The ones that have left did so to move elsewhere within the company or to have a family/maternity leave.
| Originally Posted by glamella I didn't work for MAC, but I did for Lancome. I loved the makeup and talking to people, BUT I hated having pre-sell can call for sales. Everytime Lancome had a GWP (which was always) you had to pre-sell products. The problem was that the products weren't LE, so people didn't see the value of it since the GWPs never ran out, and were basically al the same. I made good commission, but I left because it was too much about sales and not enough about do makeup. |
Wow, that sounds like me, lol!
I work for Lancome right now and that's exactly my beef too (and on my first MAC interview I commended them for NOT having GWP which trains customers to only buy when there's a gift and take you away from the counter making phone calls ~ blah! I'm not in with MAC yet, but I haven't lost hope.
I do notice that a lot of the staff at my store have been the same for years, while other counters seem to have an even higher turnover rate. IME, MAC's 'employee satisfaction' appears higher than other counters. The ones that have left did so to move elsewhere within the company or to have a family/maternity leave.
circusflavouredgum
Well-known member
Quote:
Thanks everyone, I am glad if my post was imformative.
Giz2000 is completely right, the guys I knew on the West Coast Pro Team have been working for MAC for at least 10 years. One of them was a manager at my store, then a trainer, then a part time salesperson at Robertson MAC Pro and is now part of the PRo Team.
As far as I know, they don't ever hire someone new from the outside for those positions (and from the outside I mean freelancers too) It seems to me like those positions are for people who have put in a lot of time and it's like anything else...lots of office politics.
| Originally Posted by giz2000 The people on the PRO team (Gordon Espinet, etc) have been with MAC for years...they worked their way from counter person to trainer to senior trainer, etc. and now strictly work as artists. MAC doesn't hire directly for the PRO team. As I understand it, it is a privilege to be on that team, and the people who are there put in their time (on top of being amazng artists!). If that's what you want to do (just artistry) you might want to consider "doing your time" at a counter or as a freelancer (which, by the way, I prefer WAY over being permanent, except for no gratis or discount...but you have flexibility) for experience and then apply with an agency...there are a lot of MAC freelancers that I work with that are with agencies and they are always working on fashion shoots, movies, videos, etc. (this being Miami, there's always something going on here). Circusflavoredgum nailed the whole retail thing on the head...that's exactly what it's like working retail, and it's not for everyone... |
Thanks everyone, I am glad if my post was imformative.
Giz2000 is completely right, the guys I knew on the West Coast Pro Team have been working for MAC for at least 10 years. One of them was a manager at my store, then a trainer, then a part time salesperson at Robertson MAC Pro and is now part of the PRo Team.
As far as I know, they don't ever hire someone new from the outside for those positions (and from the outside I mean freelancers too) It seems to me like those positions are for people who have put in a lot of time and it's like anything else...lots of office politics.
