Racism and "Homophobia/hate" is it the same thing?

[hotmodelchiq]

Ok so I was in class today in a deep discussion about racism. Ever since Obama decided to run for "THE OFFICE" Race issues have become a very hot topic in almost every forum imaginable... Soooo A guy stands up and some how changes the subject to homosexuality and how a homosexuals fight for rights and protection are equivilant to the Afican American's fight for civil rights... Well I was immidiatley offended (because Im black) and blasted his ass for saying something so stupid... this is why... I was born black and my skin will be black until the day i die... now whether you were born gay or not (which I believe it is possible to be) people dont hate homosexuals immediately upon sight you have to admit to being gay or exhibit homosexual behavior first.... so what do you think is it the same... oh and lets not forget slavery has a BIG part to play in this idea and why I was so mad he said that....

 

[ShugAvery2001]

You shouldn't get offended. I think were we as human beings loose is when we struggle but fail to empathize with the struggle of others. homophobia is just like any other ism....

it's rooted in that majority/minority you're just different dynamic.

It's just easier for some to still hide the fact that they are gay... but many CAN'T hide it because of their own nature may be more feminine/masculine.

so .. while you can't compare the queer liberation movement to say slavery.... you can compare it to the civil rights movement as well as the women's rights movement

 

[chocolategoddes]

Interesting.
I'm torn between the two sides. Obviously, I'm black and though I'm not homosexual, I'm definitely homo-friendly. A "fag-hag", if you will.

Black people have struggled for civil rights in this country for hundreds of years, to gain the right to vote, the right to marry, the right to own property etc.
Gay civil rights have only been in the spotlight for 50 or so years.

Racism and pure hatred for an ethnic race usually stems from another group of people seeing the race as inferior to them. During slavery, white people justified their cruelty towards these slaves by saying these blacks were genetically inferior to whites, and that was just the way it was supposed to be.

I'm sure these days, homophobes probably see themselves as superior to gays because to them homosexuality is sick and wrong.

And we could also go into the use of the words "nigger" and "faggot"...

It's really complicated. I can see where both of you are coming from.

 

[Mabelle]

I think the two are very similar, more than most would like to admit.

Yes, black people are discriminated against instantly. you cannot hide you're race. If someone is racist all it takes is them seeing you to decided that you're less them them or... whatever these assholes think.
I suppose homosexuals get "the luxury" of hiding their sexuality, if you can call it that. But really, there choice is to a; come out. Realize that if they are open about their sexuality they will be hugely discriminated against. That homophobia is socially acceptable and encouraged in pretty much every society. That being homosexual is illegal and punishable by death in some societies. That they are seen as worse than terrorists by some people in there own country (thank you sally kern, you twisted old bitch). Or they B; can lie to themselves and others, keeping this secret, like it's something to be ashamed of.

Gay Rights have only become popular after African American's rights were established. I mean, we don't usually hear people opening using the N bomb (as i call it) in a derogatory way (thank god), but how often do you hear someone use the word faggot to put someone down? I hear it almost every day.
I think they are the exact same thing. By being racist or being homophobic, you are choosing to hate someone based on something they have no control over, whether it's because they're black, asain, mexican, or because they are a man that loves men. These things are one small part of what makes a person. I know my sexuality doesn't define me, neither does the fact that i'm white. If someone were to judge me based on either of those two factors i would be hugely pissed.

Anyway, all i'm saying is that regardless of the history of the hatred, they are both equally wrong. I don't see the point in fighting over who has what worse. Let's agree that racism and homophobia are disgusting, and lets do something to change it!!!

For those who haven't heard Sally Kern's hurtful words here they are YouTube - I'm listening

And here are the inspiring words of Harvey Milk. Harvey Milk, who was an openly gay man who was shot and killed after he was elected for public office.
YouTube - Got Hope?

 

[chocolategoddes]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mabelle And here are the inspiring words of Harvey Milk. Harvey Milk, who was an openly gay man who was shot and killed after he was elected for public office.

Off topic: I'm excited to see the new film coming out about him. And not just because James Franco is in it.

 

[Mabelle]

it looks freakin' fantastic! i'm not usually a huge fan of sean penn (he kinda scares me... a little too intense for my tastes) but i can't not watch this film.
i really can't wait until it comes out.
I get optimistic when movies like this come out... i hope they will change people's minds. But then i realize that the narrow minded will never watch this movie, and then i get sad again

 

[NutMeg]

It always boggles my mind when minorities fight amongst themselves about who is worse off. I honestly think you're shooting yourself in the foot if you argue that such and such a group of people is way more oppressed than another, because you're missing the point. The point isn't that people were hated in the past, the point is that racism and homophobia and prejudice of all kinds exist now. And it needs to stop. Instead of fighting over which cause to direct attention to, direct attention to all hate crimes, to all prejudice, to the fact that people are just people. And they should be judged for who they are, not for anything else.

And regarding the point that most gay people aren't as visible as black people... Would you want to be white if you could? Would it make you feel ashamed that you were pretending to be someone you're not? Sure, a number of gay people don't have a huge problem hiding mannerisms that would make them stand out, but gays who are "still in the closet" so to speak suffer a lot of guilt, shame, indecision, and often depression and low self-esteem from not being true to themselves. I just don't think that its a valid point. I don't think a whole lot of this argument is productive. Maybe I'm wrong, but I really think we should be focusing on stopping prejudice in all its forms.

 

[M.A.C. head.]

I think that gay rights are just as important as rights for blacks, whites, trannies, dwarfs, and anyone who is just trying to live their lives happily and with equality.

No, gays were not enslaved. But gays have been oppressed. Gay people have been murdered just for being gay, just as blacks have been murdered for being black and so on.

I wouldn't say that the circumstances are the same, but the issue definitely is. Innocent people being mistreated and not being afforded certain rights that "everyone else" is getting is NOT cool.

 

[M.A.C. head.]

Quote:

Originally Posted by NutMeg And regarding the point that most gay people aren't as visible as black people... Would you want to be white if you could? Would it make you feel ashamed that you were pretending to be someone you're not?

I agreed with you all the way up to this point; because the "wanting to be white" concept is a HUGE issue in the black community. I don't want to turn the tide of the OPs thread, but I think that you should look into the subject more, if you're interested. If you're not interested, that's cool, but your statements about that are misinformed.

 

[OfficerJenny]

There are people who most definitely DO hate homosexuals upon sight, and I have been victim of such things.

I don't think the gay rights shit is any more important than black rights, but it is a very similar issue, and thinking that your minorities issues are worse/more important is just ignorant.

We should be coming together to stop this not telling the other they aren't as worse off as we are.

 

[revinn]

Racism, homophobia, prejudice against any religion, and hate of ANY kind are completely equal in my mind. Hating black people, white people, gay people, or Muslim people are all wrong, and no one form of hatred is worse then another. There is no difference. Period.

 

[NutMeg]

Quote:

Originally Posted by NutMeg And regarding the point that most gay people aren't as visible as black people... Would you want to be white if you could? Would it make you feel ashamed that you were pretending to be someone you're not?

Quote:

Originally Posted by M.A.C. head. I agreed with you all the way up to this point; because the "wanting to be white" concept is a HUGE issue in the black community. I don't want to turn the tide of the OPs thread, but I think that you should look into the subject more, if you're interested. If you're not interested, that's cool, but your statements about that are misinformed.

I hate to nit-pick, but I didn't make a statement. I asked two questions, which I have quoted. Yes I was trying to illustrate a point, but I wasn't making a misinformed statement. What I was trying to do was get the OP to reflect on the fact that just because you have the ability to conceal your identity, be it ethnic or sexual, it is not without psychological ramifications. I certainly wasn't intending to imply that "wanting to be white" as you put it isn't an issue, although I realize in re-reading my post that it was somewhat ambiguous. I admit that issues in the black community is not an area in which I am particularly knowledgeable, but I don't think I overstepped my bounds too much in implying that assuming a false ethnic identity would cause some psychological discomfort, if only because it implies that you are ashamed of your true ethnic identity. If I'm completely off base with that, then I apologize.

 

[yodagirl]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mabelle For those who haven't heard Sally Kern's hurtful words here they are YouTube - I'm listening

People like Sally Kern need to be locked away....The words that came out of her mouth made me absolutley sick to my stomach. Its disgusting trash like her that keep fueling the hatred fire

 

[SkylarV217]

My problem with this is that while there is racism and homophobia, there will always be people that are ignorant enough to dislike or hate people based upon such things.

Members of the homosexual community have been denied rights. To date members of the black community while still discriminated against have the right to marry and adopt among other things. I think we should ALL WORK TOGETHER until all people are equal Men ,Women, White, Black, Red, Yellow, Brown, Gay,Straight , little, big Ect. Ect .... I believe if we continue to stive towards equality for all people rather than focusing on one group things would fall into place more quickly .... but maybe thats just my idealistic view.

 

[silverbelle282]

i think that the above posters who have stressed that if you allow hate to flourish in any way, it will spread, are correct.

i think that all minorities should unite against their oppressor/the oppressive political or social system in question, so that they can take control and create an environment which fosters an appreciation of difference, and actually embodies core values like love, compassion, and service to ones community.

i think that it is fairly obvious when the totality of the circumstances is taken into consideration that the struggle towards rights for blacks and rights for lgbts are not identical historically (we can also compare rights for women, etc), but that this is a moot point which in the end, serves the majority/racist/patriarchal agenda, as it detracts from the real issue of change that we need to band together to accomplish.

i'm indian, and i often see my indian relatives or friends subscribing to this ideology of racism/sexism, and it bothers me. a lot. my personal motto is "we're brown, and we're next," lol

 

[ashleyisawesome]

I think any kind of hate is the same. Equality is equality. Black rights are no more important than gay or women's rights. We all deserve to be treated with respect no matter what our race, gender, or sexual preference might be. To think that anyone's rights are more important than anyone else's is only feeding on to the superiority certain people feel over other groups, which just feeds the vicious cycle.

 

[carandru]

As an African American, I can honestly say that I would not be offended if ANY oppressed group compared their fights for equality and rights to the civil right movement of African Americans. B/C guess what? These people face the same type of oppression. Just b/c we may or may not have struggled longer or cannot "hide our race" doesn't make our fight more important or harder or better.

I would hope that a person who has struggled and had to deal with the "isms" of the world would be a bit more understanding and encouraging of others facing such things. A fight for equality for homosexual is a fight for equality for african americans is a fight for equality for the mentally challenged or physically disabled is a fight for equality for womens rights etc. Each groups fight only highlights the fact that YES we are all human and yes WE all deserve the rights listed under the constitution.

If you prefer to focus on your own particular struggle, that's fine as well. Just don't get upset with or bash a fellow person who is in the same type of fight as you.

 

[flowerhead]

I don't know if you could call it 'the same thing' because that's a bit simplistic. Racism and homophobia are same in the fact that people discriminate and have a negative perception over something the person has been born with, but racist individuals form judgements straight away and homophobics form judgements once it's obvious the person is gay (With me that's pretty obvious straight away in their eyes because I like to wear silver glitter etc).
I remember I had a friend who was fully Sudanese, had faced a lot of opression and moved to London, and she said 'You choose to be discriminated against because you're so flamboyant/camp', but really if I looked/acted what society deems heterosexual, and a homophobe had a conversation with me for 5 minutes, the outcome would be the same, so it's not that different. My style and sexuality are seperate, I've known straight men who wear makeup etc. I don't get angry when people judge me on my style, because that's no different to my distaste for fake tan & tracksuits. The people who say I choose to be gay and have a certain lifestyle so should expect to be judged on it piss me off, because being gay is not a lifestyle, it's an inborn biological preference.
I've just rambled, but essentially a racist sees someone's race and not the person, and a homophobe see someone's sexuality & not the individual, so they're exactly the same in that respect, but I still wouldn't call them the same. It's the same concept though, & it's in the same vein and they're both equally vile & intellectually bankrupt.

 

[ShugAvery2001]

I really think we could all benefit from learning the history of other cultures. You begin to realize that there is always struggles because people are both good and evil.

My understanding of my own history was made clearer by studying the history of others. And while the methods of oppression are sometimes different, the results are usually the same.

Justification for murder
Justification for incarceration\suspicion
Justification for refusal of employment

I don't know why but when I had my own son I really gave the issue some thought, cause you know parents always have dreams for their kids. My dream was of course that he'd grow up to be a lawyer or doctor or president or something right with a great african american wife he meets in college yadda yadda yadda......
but the fact is.. I don't have total control over these things and it could be that .. he turn out to be gay .. or hell we're in the suburbs he could end up having a mixed marriage...

If he were gay would I like to see him ostracized by society or targeted or outcast. I mean even effeminate males who are straight are teased and bullied etc. I have gay friends and they've shared their struggles.

If he were in a mixed marriage would I want to see him ostracized for his decisions??

The answer is no! So of course I think it wise to err on the side of tolerance.

 

[blindpassion]

Discrimination is discrimination is discrimination.

That person is still being discriminated against for something about themselves that they cannot change - and should never want to change, diversity is what makes this nation great.