Racism and "Homophobia/hate" is it the same thing?

[ShugAvery2001]

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Originally Posted by flowerhead I don't know if you could call it 'the same thing' because that's a bit simplistic. Racism and homophobia are same in the fact that people discriminate and have a negative perception over something the person has been born with, but racist individuals form judgements straight away and homophobics form judgements once it's obvious the person is gay (With me that's pretty obvious straight away in their eyes because I like to wear silver glitter etc). I remember I had a friend who was fully Sudanese, had faced a lot of opression and moved to London, and she said 'You choose to be discriminated against because you're so flamboyant/camp', but really if I looked/acted what society deems heterosexual, and a homophobe had a conversation with me for 5 minutes, the outcome would be the same, so it's not that different. My style and sexuality are seperate, I've known straight men who wear makeup etc. I don't get angry when people judge me on my style, because that's no different to my distaste for fake tan & tracksuits. The people who say I choose to be gay and have a certain lifestyle so should expect to be judged on it piss me off, because being gay is not a lifestyle, it's an inborn biological preference. I've just rambled, but essentially a racist sees someone's race and not the person, and a homophobe see someone's sexuality & not the individual, so they're exactly the same in that respect, but I still wouldn't call them the same. It's the same concept though, & it's in the same vein and they're both equally vile & intellectually bankrupt.

well... you might be right .. unless your black AND gay

The black GBLT's I know would say it's the same. I go to a church that's GBLT friendly so I like I said I hear the stories.
You know .. what's the difference between denied an apartment because they see you're gay with your partner and being denied a home or apartment because the neighborhood you're trying to move in is predominately white?

 

[HeavenLeiBlu]

It's not the same thing, but it's rooted in the same idiotic environment of exclusion.

 

[hotmodelchiq]

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Originally Posted by NutMeg It always boggles my mind when minorities fight amongst themselves about who is worse off. I honestly think you're shooting yourself in the foot if you argue that such and such a group of people is way more oppressed than another, because you're missing the point. The point isn't that people were hated in the past, the point is that racism and homophobia and prejudice of all kinds exist now. And it needs to stop. Instead of fighting over which cause to direct attention to, direct attention to all hate crimes, to all prejudice, to the fact that people are just people. And they should be judged for who they are, not for anything else. And regarding the point that most gay people aren't as visible as black people... Would you want to be white if you could? Would it make you feel ashamed that you were pretending to be someone you're not? Sure, a number of gay people don't have a huge problem hiding mannerisms that would make them stand out, but gays who are "still in the closet" so to speak suffer a lot of guilt, shame, indecision, and often depression and low self-esteem from not being true to themselves. I just don't think that its a valid point. I don't think a whole lot of this argument is productive. Maybe I'm wrong, but I really think we should be focusing on stopping prejudice in all its forms.

you made good points but this really isnt an argument I was just asking everyones opinion... and No I would NEVER want to be white I am EXTREMELY proud of my heritage and ethnicity, and skin, and lips, and my hair everything so no. I was just asking what the opinions are. I dont feel anyone should be devalued or mistreated because of their beliefs or values. I it just gets on my nerves when people try to compare different struggles... I can NEVER compare the black stuggle to the Holocaust just like I could never compare it to the "gay rights movement" I just wanted opinions. Thanks not bashing you just making sure you understand and even if someone acts gay you dont know if they are...

 

[Beauty Mark]

I'm going to say there are a lot of similarities among every minority group's struggles. Each one has its own unique problems, but there are quite a few similarities.

Gayness is easier to hide, in some ways. However, if you can be perceived as being gay (speaking more femininely, women who wear flannel and have short hair), etc., you can be "identified" as being gay.

I think the hate stems from the same place: fear and ignorance.

I wish that we could unite all minority groups and people who support them; I feel like there are enough similarities that we need to work together. Together it would make a huge group.

I think sometimes people (I don't know if this is how you feel) believe that the comparison of any two struggles are somehow devaluing the other person's struggle, like saying that because everyone struggles, you can't be that angry about it. Personally, I like the comparisons, because I think we realize that we're all fighting against the same evils and we should all unite.

 

[*Stargazer*]

I think the fights are very similar myself.

I actually think that homosexuals face a more insidious fight in some instances. There are many mainstream accepted institutions (like churches) who teach that homosexuality is evil, while presenting the idea that they are an institution based on love. Most, not all of course, of the groups that are racist aren't accepted by the general population the way that a church is. I think the acceptance of institutions, like churches, that actively seek to "change" homosexuals is very disturbing. I also don't know many minorities who are ostracized by family for being a minority, the way that many gays are ostracized by the people who should love them the most simply because they are gay.

I don't necessarily think anyone has it any harder than anyone else, though.

 

[flowerhead]

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Originally Posted by ShugAvery2001 well... you might be right .. unless your black AND gay The black GBLT's I know would say it's the same. I go to a church that's GBLT friendly so I like I said I hear the stories. You know .. what's the difference between denied an apartment because they see you're gay with your partner and being denied a home or apartment because the neighborhood you're trying to move in is predominately white?

Denied an apartment because of your sexuality or race?! That's shocking. It's the same thing then, but I've never heard of anything like that. I've never lived a mainstream life working in an office etc, so I can't share any experiences there, and we are quite a liberal country. It'd be very rare/shocking that you'd get denied anything like jobs or housing based on ethnicity or sexuality here...I think. I live in a very 'bohemian' part of London, so day to day I'm thankful to say I don't experience much homophobia, but I used to live in a shithole middle of nowhere town and experienced a lot.

 

[NutMeg]

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Originally Posted by hotmodelchiq you made good points but this really isnt an argument I was just asking everyones opinion... and No I would NEVER want to be white I am EXTREMELY proud of my heritage and ethnicity, and skin, and lips, and my hair everything so no. I was just asking what the opinions are. I dont feel anyone should be devalued or mistreated because of their beliefs or values. I it just gets on my nerves when people try to compare different struggles... I can NEVER compare the black stuggle to the Holocaust just like I could never compare it to the "gay rights movement" I just wanted opinions. Thanks not bashing you just making sure you understand and even if someone acts gay you dont know if they are...

I agree, you asked for people's opinions and you got mine. It wasn't my intention in either this post or the first to be argumentative, but generally that's what happens when people disagree. It's not intended to be personal or hurtful, but I do disagree with you.

As far as the rest of your post, I understand that there is a difference between the Holocaust and an isolated gay bashing. However I think the differences between the oppression and hatred experienced by minorities is far less important than the similarities. Maybe someday when prejudice doesn't exist anymore there will be a point in sitting around debating who had it the hardest, but until then I just think it's completely irrelevant.

 

[Mabelle]

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Originally Posted by *Stargazer* I think the fights are very similar myself. I actually think that homosexuals face a more insidious fight in some instances. There are many mainstream accepted institutions (like churches) who teach that homosexuality is evil, while presenting the idea that they are an institution based on love. Most, not all of course, of the groups that are racist aren't accepted by the general population the way that a church is. I think the acceptance of institutions, like churches, that actively seek to "change" homosexuals is very disturbing. I also don't know many minorities who are ostracized by family for being a minority, the way that many gays are ostracized by the people who should love them the most simply because they are gay. I don't necessarily think anyone has it any harder than anyone else, though.

That's because those religious institutions believe homosexuality is a choice.

This nature vs. nurture debate is a pile of shit imo. No offense to any homosexuals, but seriously, who choose to be a part of a "group" that is vilified, ostracized, targeted in every culture, in most religions and in almost all countries? No one would wake up one morning and say to themselves "ya, that's for me!"

Major organized religons views on homosexuality is the main reason i cannot stand them. I think we'd be better off without them. just my opnion though. obviously not all religous peopleare homophobic. I am SO thankful for that.

 

[cupcake_x]

I think basically, it is the same thing. It's hate and ignorance, no matter how you slice it.

The thing I hate more than people hating someone else for the color of their skin, their sexuality, religion, gender, age, etc., is when that same person who just said something hateful gets offended when someone hates them. At least if you're gonna hate, don't get butthurt when someone turns around and calls you something. But really, I just want us all to get along and stop the hate!!! Unless it's hate over something legitimate, of course.

Being of so many races and having gay friends and family and stuff makes this topic really interesting. Thanks for posting.