lafemmenoir
Well-known member
When it comes to race on Specktra I have learned to just keep it moving. Good luck with your paper Devin. I know you will do well.
Racism in cosmetics company ads/products?
- Thread starter deven.marie
- Start date
ShugAvery2001
Well-known member
Quote:
totally......
Originally Posted by lafemmenoir
When it comes to race on Specktra I have learned to just keep it moving. Good luck with your paper Devin. I know you will do well. |
totally......
Aprilrobin
Well-known member
Hmmm well, this is an interesting topic. If you want to take the point that images of standard beauty are racist, then I can't argue there. Frankly, standard beauty is about as discriminatory as anything gets and not only to minorities.
I realize it must be very frustrating to women with darker skintones, but are cosmetics racist? Can cosmetics be racist? Companies have demographics and they cater to those that buy their products, be it foundation shades or packaging or even the type of music they use in their advertisements.. or whatnot. Perhaps the demographic is more apparent with cosmetics since they inherently relate to skintone.
MAC's slogan is "all ages all races" or something like that. However, MAC has a pretty clear demographic.
If there was a worldwide cosmetic regulation board that determined what skintones were suitable for foundation, then the word "racism" might be appropriate.
But if a company like Chanel (random choice) didn't have a foundation to match a particular dark skintone, and you consider that racist...
Then is Black Opal racist because I can't buy foundation from them?
Is a cosmetics company obligated to please everyone?
Eh.
I realize it must be very frustrating to women with darker skintones, but are cosmetics racist? Can cosmetics be racist? Companies have demographics and they cater to those that buy their products, be it foundation shades or packaging or even the type of music they use in their advertisements.. or whatnot. Perhaps the demographic is more apparent with cosmetics since they inherently relate to skintone.
MAC's slogan is "all ages all races" or something like that. However, MAC has a pretty clear demographic.
If there was a worldwide cosmetic regulation board that determined what skintones were suitable for foundation, then the word "racism" might be appropriate.
But if a company like Chanel (random choice) didn't have a foundation to match a particular dark skintone, and you consider that racist...
Then is Black Opal racist because I can't buy foundation from them?
Is a cosmetics company obligated to please everyone?
Eh.
reesesilverstar
Well-known member
I'm lost on this topic... Most of the posts I've read take racism to mean a foundation tone... Will somebody point me to the general tone of this thread, plz. Cuz I'm lost now...
I'm leaning to believe that companies manufacture for a particular demographic... So their ads/products etc will target these groups... I'm not sure that because they don't make foundations in your shade/tone makes them racist... To answer the initial question asked, I can't say that I believe there is racism involved as much as co's have a niche market that they cater to...
I'm leaning to believe that companies manufacture for a particular demographic... So their ads/products etc will target these groups... I'm not sure that because they don't make foundations in your shade/tone makes them racist... To answer the initial question asked, I can't say that I believe there is racism involved as much as co's have a niche market that they cater to...
user79
Well-known member
Quote:
That's taking it a bit far. I think most drugstores have sections for different specialty products, like body waxing products in one place, beauty in another, etc. The ethnic haircare products cater to a smaller portion of customers (usually) than most of their customers, so isn't it easier to have it in once place so the customer will find it easier? It's easier than if those specialty items were just mixed in randomly with shampoo etc. I don't think those stores think, "oh those nasty hair relaxers, we can't have all these products standing next to the shampoos for our other customers, we'll just put them in a this corner here, hah!"
| Originally Posted by harmonia
The first thing that came to mind for me on the subject of racism and beauty products: You know how you go to the drugstore and all of the "ethnic" haircare is in a separate area than the other hair products? It's like hair care segregation. |
That's taking it a bit far. I think most drugstores have sections for different specialty products, like body waxing products in one place, beauty in another, etc. The ethnic haircare products cater to a smaller portion of customers (usually) than most of their customers, so isn't it easier to have it in once place so the customer will find it easier? It's easier than if those specialty items were just mixed in randomly with shampoo etc. I don't think those stores think, "oh those nasty hair relaxers, we can't have all these products standing next to the shampoos for our other customers, we'll just put them in a this corner here, hah!"
user79
Well-known member
Quote:
Yeah, and the message is just so warped. You must have whiter, fairer skin to succeed at life. It's weird that these Asian companies support those stereotypes. There is a huge desire in Asian countries to have fair skin, and people with very dark or black skin are sometimes considered unattractive. I mean look at Bollywood movies, almost all the actors have very fair skin, but if you ever go to southern India, most of the population have extremely dark skin, some almost black...maybe I'm unaware of it but I've never seen a black-skinned Bollywood actress....
| Originally Posted by GreekChick
Those creams target an asian demographic. In most asian countries, the ideal is having fair skin and "western" features. Women actually search for products like these in order to lighten their skin. It's similar to the exclusive Lightful range MAC released a while back in Asia (the only difference being that the MAC product didn't claim to lighten one's skin, but to give it more of a glow, more of a luminosity). |
Yeah, and the message is just so warped. You must have whiter, fairer skin to succeed at life. It's weird that these Asian companies support those stereotypes. There is a huge desire in Asian countries to have fair skin, and people with very dark or black skin are sometimes considered unattractive. I mean look at Bollywood movies, almost all the actors have very fair skin, but if you ever go to southern India, most of the population have extremely dark skin, some almost black...maybe I'm unaware of it but I've never seen a black-skinned Bollywood actress....
Aprilrobin
Well-known member
Quote:
LOL I have noticed that around these parts, the spanish speaking sunsilk shampoo is allowed to commingle with the english speaking sunsilk shampoo.
Although, only the spanish one comes in avocado flavor, which might be racist.
| Originally Posted by MissChievous
That's taking it a bit far. I think most drugstores have sections for different specialty products, like body waxing products in one place, beauty in another, etc. The ethnic haircare products cater to a smaller portion of customers (usually) than most of their customers, so isn't it easier to have it in once place so the customer will find it easier? It's easier than if those specialty items were just mixed in randomly with shampoo etc. I don't think those stores think, "oh those nasty hair relaxers, we can't have all these products standing next to the shampoos for our other customers, we'll just put them in a this corner here, hah!" You can't be serious...
|
LOL I have noticed that around these parts, the spanish speaking sunsilk shampoo is allowed to commingle with the english speaking sunsilk shampoo.
Although, only the spanish one comes in avocado flavor, which might be racist.
deven.marie
Well-known member
whew, this thread has gotten a little heated! haha
i gave out the foundation thing just to be an example, i am fully aware that different companies have different demographics.
however, even from what i've seen at work (ulta), we do not carry many foundations that will match darker skin tones, and a black haircare section? forget it. i think we have 2 lines out of about 80 that cater towards african-american hair.
what i'm asking is, have you noticed any companies that promote beauty as being fair with blonde hair, etc..
i realize that racism goes in all directions, but i am specifically focusing on the notion of white supremacy and the idea that true beauty is being fair with blonde hair, and the negative effects that this image has on women of color, not just african americans but any women of color.
believe me, i'm half indian and half black, so i understand how the idea and image of beauty is so distorted in asian countries that women start to bleach their skin. i would just like to explore the reasons behind this idea of perfect beauty and how companies promote that image.
thanks everyone for your input, and for the links and videos
i gave out the foundation thing just to be an example, i am fully aware that different companies have different demographics.
however, even from what i've seen at work (ulta), we do not carry many foundations that will match darker skin tones, and a black haircare section? forget it. i think we have 2 lines out of about 80 that cater towards african-american hair.
what i'm asking is, have you noticed any companies that promote beauty as being fair with blonde hair, etc..
i realize that racism goes in all directions, but i am specifically focusing on the notion of white supremacy and the idea that true beauty is being fair with blonde hair, and the negative effects that this image has on women of color, not just african americans but any women of color.
believe me, i'm half indian and half black, so i understand how the idea and image of beauty is so distorted in asian countries that women start to bleach their skin. i would just like to explore the reasons behind this idea of perfect beauty and how companies promote that image.
thanks everyone for your input, and for the links and videos
ShugAvery2001
Well-known member
Quote:
I have some Punjabi friends who are almost darker than me. One lady in particular is quite self concious about it too.
It's too bad. People should love themselves for who they are. and companies that want to do business with these various communities should respect that. But ... in these cases I'm sure there is a demand for these skin lightening products.
| Originally Posted by MissChievous
Yeah, and the message is just so warped. You must have whiter, fairer skin to succeed at life. It's weird that these Asian companies support those stereotypes. There is a huge desire in Asian countries to have fair skin, and people with very dark or black skin are sometimes considered unattractive. I mean look at Bollywood movies, almost all the actors have very fair skin, but if you ever go to southern India, most of the population have extremely dark skin, some almost black...maybe I'm unaware of it but I've never seen a black-skinned Bollywood actress.... |
I have some Punjabi friends who are almost darker than me. One lady in particular is quite self concious about it too.
It's too bad. People should love themselves for who they are. and companies that want to do business with these various communities should respect that. But ... in these cases I'm sure there is a demand for these skin lightening products.
GreekChick
Well-known member
Quote:
I agree.
Look at Aishwarya Rai, former Miss World, and the highest paid Indian actress!
http://www.coolbolly.com/wp-content/...hwarya-rai.jpg
She's considered one of the most beautiful Bollywood actresses there is. Is it because of her western attributes? Her green eyes? Her light skin?
| Originally Posted by MissChievous
Yeah, and the message is just so warped. You must have whiter, fairer skin to succeed at life. It's weird that these Asian companies support those stereotypes. There is a huge desire in Asian countries to have fair skin, and people with very dark or black skin are sometimes considered unattractive. I mean look at Bollywood movies, almost all the actors have very fair skin, but if you ever go to southern India, most of the population have extremely dark skin, some almost black...maybe I'm unaware of it but I've never seen a black-skinned Bollywood actress.... |
I agree.
Look at Aishwarya Rai, former Miss World, and the highest paid Indian actress!
http://www.coolbolly.com/wp-content/...hwarya-rai.jpg
She's considered one of the most beautiful Bollywood actresses there is. Is it because of her western attributes? Her green eyes? Her light skin?
deven.marie
Well-known member
yes, the issue of having lighter skin is very prevalent among us indian women. but why do we want it? if the idea is that having lighter skin makes you more beautiful, and "better" than those with darker skin, how has advertising promoted this image and why do they continue to basically tell those with darker skin that they are inferior??
okay not to be OT, i love aishwarya rai, but the reality is most indians do not have skin that light or green eyes. my grandma was considered very beautiful in india because she has very light skin, however my grandfather is very dark, almost black, and everyone thought she was crazy for wanting to be with him.
i know that more and more companies are branching out today, and that it is no longer a huge issue here in America in 2008, but I would also like to take it back to a couple decades ago when it was a big issue, and also see why companies decided to make that "switch" to using women of color.
okay not to be OT, i love aishwarya rai, but the reality is most indians do not have skin that light or green eyes. my grandma was considered very beautiful in india because she has very light skin, however my grandfather is very dark, almost black, and everyone thought she was crazy for wanting to be with him.
i know that more and more companies are branching out today, and that it is no longer a huge issue here in America in 2008, but I would also like to take it back to a couple decades ago when it was a big issue, and also see why companies decided to make that "switch" to using women of color.
ShugAvery2001
Well-known member
Quote:
Of course it gets heated. The only place I've ever see topics of race,class, politics being discussed without triggering so many emotional responses is in academia.
I think you're going wayyy to deep for Spektra.net actually.
You're dealing with language that most people don't even understand. Like if you asked people on spectra to define racism or white supremacy, you'll get a gazillion different answers.
And on the flip side if you want to deal with the psychology of the language, racism sexism supremacy homophobic are all loaded words and most people will give you nothing but an emotional many times biased opinion.
I'm not even sure that this forum would be a good source for your paper. You need to hit the books kid and do some real research cause i'm sure what you're looking for has been explored and documented before.
You don't need any opinions you need hard analysis and statitics which you won't get here.
| Originally Posted by deven.marie
whew, this thread has gotten a little heated! haha i realize that racism goes in all directions, but i am specifically focusing on the notion of white supremacy and the idea that true beauty is being fair with blonde hair, and the negative effects that this image has on women of color, not just african americans but any women of color. |
Of course it gets heated. The only place I've ever see topics of race,class, politics being discussed without triggering so many emotional responses is in academia.
I think you're going wayyy to deep for Spektra.net actually.
You're dealing with language that most people don't even understand. Like if you asked people on spectra to define racism or white supremacy, you'll get a gazillion different answers.
And on the flip side if you want to deal with the psychology of the language, racism sexism supremacy homophobic are all loaded words and most people will give you nothing but an emotional many times biased opinion.
I'm not even sure that this forum would be a good source for your paper. You need to hit the books kid and do some real research cause i'm sure what you're looking for has been explored and documented before.
You don't need any opinions you need hard analysis and statitics which you won't get here.
deven.marie
Well-known member
true. i appreciate you saying that.
i just wanted some examples, such as the skin whitening ads or the l'oreal thing. i realize now that it probably wasnt the best place to post if i'm looking for any kind of in-depth analysis.
i just wanted some examples, such as the skin whitening ads or the l'oreal thing. i realize now that it probably wasnt the best place to post if i'm looking for any kind of in-depth analysis.
jardinaires
Well-known member
there's a lot of beauty standards that don't make sense to me. lighter skin for african american women, also the straight relaxed hair which can be viewed as a personal preference in the everyday world, is also a general preference when it comes to the beauty world. beyonce's hair has rarely (if ever?) had a "natural" style since she's done work with l'oreal. there are also a lot of women, indian, black or otherwise who buy into the colored contacts thing. that is also a personal preference for most women who just want to look a certain way that they find appealing, but it seems like a lot of fashion and beauty ads feature lighter eye colors which unless genetic, isn't commonly seen.
there are so many times i've seen ads, and not just in reference to one race, the hair is mostly extensions. the eyes, skin and facial features have been retouched, and the body has been airbrushed and skintone brightened for a more aesthetically pleasing look. the visual part of the cosmetic industry, ads and ideas behind a "look", is getting more and more unnatural for EVERYBODY. the skincare products, such as fair and lovely or even anti-aging treatments claim to provide much more drastic results than they probably do, and everyone is buying into these things because of some ad featuring a thin, perfect-skinned model with beautiful hair and eyelashes out to there. i've come to understand that unless the company specifically claims to be diverse and catering to many types of people, they really have one or two markets they aim to please, and their overall campaign will be a testament to that.
there are so many times i've seen ads, and not just in reference to one race, the hair is mostly extensions. the eyes, skin and facial features have been retouched, and the body has been airbrushed and skintone brightened for a more aesthetically pleasing look. the visual part of the cosmetic industry, ads and ideas behind a "look", is getting more and more unnatural for EVERYBODY. the skincare products, such as fair and lovely or even anti-aging treatments claim to provide much more drastic results than they probably do, and everyone is buying into these things because of some ad featuring a thin, perfect-skinned model with beautiful hair and eyelashes out to there. i've come to understand that unless the company specifically claims to be diverse and catering to many types of people, they really have one or two markets they aim to please, and their overall campaign will be a testament to that.
ShugAvery2001
Well-known member
great point jardinaires....
AppleDiva
Well-known member
Quote:
Lancome does feature Black women in ads, but only in Essence magazine.
| Originally Posted by deven.marie
i also noticed lancome usually features white models, for their mascara ads and whatnot. I did see a couple articles about the beyonce thing too, im gonna include that in my paper. nibjet thanks for bringing up the absence of asian models, I think that would be a really good topic for me to discuss. |
Lancome does feature Black women in ads, but only in Essence magazine.
florabundance
Well-known member
Quote:
No i agree, you won't get an ACADEMIC analysis. But if you consider that you're writing about racism in cosmetic advertising, then one of the best sources you can possibly receive is public consumer opinion - the people who are targetted by advertisers. IMO, it's then your job to take an academic stance having recognized the common patterns/themes in opinion.
Also, active discussion will probably allow you to consider points of view your were yet to consider
| Originally Posted by deven.marie
true. i appreciate you saying that. i just wanted some examples, such as the skin whitening ads or the l'oreal thing. i realize now that it probably wasnt the best place to post if i'm looking for any kind of in-depth analysis. |
No i agree, you won't get an ACADEMIC analysis. But if you consider that you're writing about racism in cosmetic advertising, then one of the best sources you can possibly receive is public consumer opinion - the people who are targetted by advertisers. IMO, it's then your job to take an academic stance having recognized the common patterns/themes in opinion.
Also, active discussion will probably allow you to consider points of view your were yet to consider
Beauty Mark
Well-known member
Quote:
My point was that there are typical features for every race (I used Asian as an example, because I know my face the best). Some ads do really erase the features. Changing skintone is indeed a way of doing it, but it isn't the only way.
I'm not sure if it is racist that x companies only makes certain shades. When I gave the example of the Bollywood actress, IIRC, they really changed a lot about her and her look so that I thought she was white. Her skin was definitely lighter, but there was other stuff about the ad. I didn't expect to see her wearing a sari, but I also didn't expect to see her looking vaguely liking herself.
Companies perplex me, since they seem to miss critical target groups, like making appropriately fitting bras or housing both petite and plus-sized clothes.
| Originally Posted by Shimmer
There are typically caucasian features too, though. And, if it can't be considered racism for the lighter end of the spectrum, it certainly can't be considered racism for the darker (speaking only of foundations), IMO. |
My point was that there are typical features for every race (I used Asian as an example, because I know my face the best). Some ads do really erase the features. Changing skintone is indeed a way of doing it, but it isn't the only way.
I'm not sure if it is racist that x companies only makes certain shades. When I gave the example of the Bollywood actress, IIRC, they really changed a lot about her and her look so that I thought she was white. Her skin was definitely lighter, but there was other stuff about the ad. I didn't expect to see her wearing a sari, but I also didn't expect to see her looking vaguely liking herself.
Companies perplex me, since they seem to miss critical target groups, like making appropriately fitting bras or housing both petite and plus-sized clothes.
melozburngr
Well-known member
Quote:
THANK YOU. I was just getting ready to rant on this.
I'm so pale that the palest shade of Shiseido's foundation is a tad dark on me. I'm sick of spending fortunes on foundations! I dont mind layin down some cash if a company made a suitable fair foundation, but no companies do. what about us translucent girls!?
| Originally Posted by redambition
no - they don't cater to the uber-pale girls among us either. if a brand doesn't have a heap going on in the darker end of the spectrum, i'd say look at it on the paler end as well. many pale girls have just as much trouble finding good foundation as darker skinned women. it's interesting to note that the colour discrimination seems to go both ways in terms of foundation shades. |
THANK YOU. I was just getting ready to rant on this.
I'm so pale that the palest shade of Shiseido's foundation is a tad dark on me. I'm sick of spending fortunes on foundations! I dont mind layin down some cash if a company made a suitable fair foundation, but no companies do. what about us translucent girls!?
