Real ID

Shimmer

Well-known member
I absolutely am NOT in favor of this.

Quote:

The U.S. Department of Homeland Security on Friday plans to take the next step in getting its controversial Real ID plan off the ground, despite opposition from numerous states and privacy groups.

At a midday press conference in Washington, Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff is scheduled to take the wraps off final regulations for the electronic identification card mandate and to make another pitch for the scheme's perceived importance in keeping Americans safe from terrorist threats.

The new rules, which are a few months behind schedule, are supposed to build on a draft version released last March for public comment.

Chertoff himself has been mum on the details ahead of his public appearance Friday. But according to anonymous sources cited by the Associated Press and The Washington Post, the department has made at least one significant change to its earlier plans: pushing back the deadlines by which the new identification cards will be required to board airplanes and enter federal buildings.

Before, Homeland Security had envisioned requiring the IDs to be in place, starting May 11, 2008--and no later than 2013--unless states had applied for an extension.

But under the new rules, Americans won't be expected to present Real ID-compliant identification cards until 2014. Even then, the mandate will apply only to Americans younger than 50 at the time, in an apparent effort to give some disgruntled state motor vehicle departments more time to issue the licenses. The requirements would be broadened to all Americans by 2017.

"We've worked very closely with the states, in terms of developing a plan that I think will be quite inexpensive, reasonable to implement, and produce the results that...are a part of the core recommendation of the 9/11 Commission, which is secure identification when driver's licenses are presented," Chertoff said Thursday, according to a transcript of his remarks, at a meeting of departmental advisers.

Largely because of the price tag, 17 states have already enacted legislation rejecting the Real ID requirements, which Congress passed as part of an emergency spending bill in 2005, and several others were considering such a step, according to the American Civil Liberties Union, one of the most prominent voices against the plan. But according to the AP and the Post, federal officials have somehow devised a way to reduce the expected $14 billion in costs to states to $3.9 billion under the revised rules.

It's unclear how the department plans to assuage security and privacy concerns about the cards, including whether data encoded on their two-dimensional bar codes will be encrypted to guard against misuse. The AP reported that states will have a "menu" of security options from which to choose but will not be required to embed "microchips"--ostensibly a reference to radio frequency identification, or RFID, technology, which, depending on the type, could be read either from a distance or close-up.

Check back with CNET News.com later on Friday for more about the new rules--and, of course, what states and privacy groups have to say about them.
 

MxAxC-_ATTACK

Well-known member
I saw this on yahoo this morning, and I am pretty confused after reading it thru a few times.

Basically they want to change our Drivers License? , so .. When your License expires they send you a new one that looks different ?

I dunno. sounds ok to me.. If it helps prevent people from using fake I.Ds in the united states
 

athena123

Well-known member
The possibility of a National ID card absolutely terrifies me! This is a slippery slope and it's a very dangerous one. How long will it be before we can't travel from one state to another without passing a checkpoint to show our National ID? Too much akin to "Your papers please" practiced behind the Iron curtain before the Berlin wall took a tumble.

A National ID card won't serve to stop terrorists, it'll only make things worse for the citizens of the United States. We'll be giving up more of our personal freedoms in exchange for a dubious sense of safety. And how much easier will this make it for identity thieves, once everyone has to carry around the same piece of paper?

shuddering.....
 

*Stargazer*

Well-known member
The thing that bugs the crap out of me is that this is not going to do much to prevent terrorism.

To be frank, most of the things that will prevent terrorism would be unpalatable to the American public.
 

Shimmer

Well-known member
Yeah they would.
The right to privacy is something I firmly believe in, and it's being eroded.
 

gigglegirl

Well-known member
Like previously stated, this will not stop terrorism. Why the hell do people institute these grand schemes which in their tiny brains seems to work but won't in practicality!?!?!!

There was great debate before Stephen Harper became prime minister of Canada--one of the issues my hometown was up in arms about is gun laws. Certain parties wanted guns off the streets (ok fine--less likelihood then of 10 yr old Michael accidentally shooting and killing his friend while playing with a gun) but they seemed to think this would make the streets safer and that gangs and drug dealers wouldn't have guns. WTF people....you think these criminals are going to say "yes, I'll abide by this law and will surrender my gun but I'll continue doing the other illegal activities." Ummm hell no.

this will just make it harder for the honest people who are forced to abide by these bureaucratic policies to move around the country. And then the issue in the article about how they are unclear how they will safeguard against misuse. Its like bank cards---thieves were able to make readers and duplicate cards and steal money from citizens. Now they're starting to have smart chips to try and overcome. The terrorists who have already been making forged passports will just have another thing to crack and then they'll have cards that look perfectly identical.
 

Dizzy

Well-known member
I really wish they'd stop using terrorism as an excuse to stomp on the Constitution.

Throwing laws at terrorism doesn't stop it because they don't abide by laws; if they wanted to stop it they'd take action, not making everyone (basically) apply for internal passports. I'm sure with all of the money they take out of our paychecks they could have come up with a better solution than this.

Anybody know if this has been or will be challenged in the Supreme Court?
 

Kuuipo

Well-known member
Maybe its being done in conjunction with all the cameras that are mounted on the street-not only to send people who speed or go through red lights tickets, but to catch criminals, jaywalkers,etc......In Hawaii, we have cameras everywhere,little tiny ones the size of a pencil sharpener. Who is watching us all the time? I was in the bus and noticed a security camera there too.
 

Dizzy

Well-known member
Has anyone read anything about what they're going to do with states that give drivers licenses to illegals? If this is a 'national ID' wouldn't that require citizenship?

Hrm- the more I think about this the more complex and crazy it gets. :/
 

Shimmer

Well-known member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kuuipo
Maybe its being done in conjunction with all the cameras that are mounted on the street-not only to send people who speed or go through red lights tickets, but to catch criminals, jaywalkers,etc......In Hawaii, we have cameras everywhere,little tiny ones the size of a pencil sharpener. Who is watching us all the time? I was in the bus and noticed a security camera there too.

Those goddamn cameras piss me off.
I get so irritated sitting at a redlight and seeing not one, not two, not four, but NINE cameras trained on the intersection. X(
 

CaraAmericana

Well-known member
Cameras don't bother me. Honestly if I am going to pick my underwears out my ass I am going to do it. How many sets of actual human eyes are trained on one intersection? Maybe some lives can be saved out of fear they could be caught. We have right to privacy but in a public domain? I feel public and social responsibility trumps privacy.

Not sure how I feel about the National ID yet. But I think I am leaning more towards not bothering me but I don't think enough info is being given on it for me to be "NOPE, don't like it." And some may think this is stupid but when our gov't does nothing then we knock them and say, why aren't they doing anything and how come this wasn't prevented.
 

wolfsong

Well-known member
It'll be like that ‘Minority Reports’ film soon, Jesus...
The UK is in talks about ID cards with retina scans and fingerprints on. The amount of people that benefit from the constant surveillance from cameras (victims of crimes etc), doesn’t validate the sheer multitude of CCTV's around. ANd as for speed cameras - how many people own gadgets that say where the cameras are so that the driver can slow down a bit? They do nothing for speeding, except make some people pretend to be better drivers for a few moments a day. Those that arent situated on known danger/blind spots are only piggybanks for the government.


This Big Brother environment scares me - where does it end? Its borderline communist behaviour, and the government will only get more controlling; ergo death of freedom.
How many illegal immigrants roam the streets nowadays (both in the UK and USA)? How do they suppose a mere card will magically fix the threat of terrorism? Many terrorist cells have money and power at the heart of them; they will find a way around this minor inconvenience.
 

purrtykitty

Well-known member
I don't like the national ID card, either. As Wolfsong said, they'll find a way around this if they really want to get us. They're smart, calculating, and have deep pockets, and some old stiffs on Capitol Hill issuing national ID cards aren't going to stop them from doind what they really want.

Interestingly, the camera thing doesn't really bother me. If I'm careless enough to run a red light with a camera, then I deserve the ticket, just as if I'm careless enough to speed by a cop doing radar. It's a safety thing that does have some statistics to back up their use. This national ID card...not so much.
 

Shimmer

Well-known member
stoplight running lights don't bother me.

surveillance cameras for the sake of surveillance bother me.
 

purrtykitty

Well-known member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shimmer
stoplight running lights don't bother me.

surveillance cameras for the sake of surveillance bother me.


Oh God, yes, those creep me out! When I'm in a dressing room, I always wonder...I've watched too many Datelines and 20/20s. And of course, we've all seen places that have that wall of closed-circuit televisions that have a camera trained on any and every nook and cranny in the place. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for a security, but if the guard who's s'posed to be watching the monitors is passed out...how are all those cameras helping anyone? And why are they always somewhere where any Tom, Dick or Harry walking by can check out what's on?
 

lilMAClady

Well-known member
I absolutely agree with previous poster that this is a further erosion of our freedom and rights. This isn't going to make the world leave us alone and go away. What scares me is what's to come and WHY all of this surveilance is necessary. It's all so twisted and sick. This is just going to be ANOTHER hassle that proves to be unecessary and costly. Grrrr... what a world we live in.
angry.gif
 

SparklingWaves

Well-known member
I believe it's going to happen whether we like it or not among things.

EDIT myself: It's already begun.

Opposition = terrorists (Hint of what's to come to pass?)
 

SparklingWaves

Well-known member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dizzy
I really wish they'd stop using terrorism as an excuse to stomp on the Constitution.

Throwing laws at terrorism doesn't stop it because they don't abide by laws; if they wanted to stop it they'd take action, not making everyone (basically) apply for internal passports. I'm sure with all of the money they take out of our paychecks they could have come up with a better solution than this.

Anybody know if this has been or will be challenged in the Supreme Court?



I feel the freedoms with which we hold dear will be taken away by implanting mental smoke screens of fear & a sense of powerlessness of many sources (ex. terrorism, uncontrolled criminal activity, etc). It really has already been at work, since 9/11.
 

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