Star crossed lovers: Romeo & Juliet in Israel/Palestine

[Hawkeye]

Raerae- I know you just like to argue for the sake of arguing- but It's my opinion on the leadership etc and thats that. I won't argue with you. Period.

As for Condi-she's also not a "leader" as in President now is she? She has leadership yes- but she is not the President. That's as far as I'm going with that.

Misschievious- I tend to agree with you. I really do. I mean in an ideal world that would be how things are. But unfortunately thats not how things are.

Margaret Thatcher really broke the mold when she became Prime Minister. I have so much respect for her but I do tend to think there were things she couldn't accomplish simply because of Male Bias and we are even seeing it with modern politics with Hillary Clinton even-not on a gigantic scale as we used to be able to but we are seeing minor things where there is male cheauvinism with her.

We even see it with Condi Rice, even the Queen Jordan.

It's really one of those things that does need to be broken - but even America isn't liberal enough to get past that-no matter how much we say we are all for womens rights etc- well yes but *shrugs*

One day- I hope Misschievious that this will happen the ideal world but I truely do not foresee it in the future.

 

[Raerae]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hawkeye Raerae- I know you just like to argue for the sake of arguing- but It's my opinion on the leadership etc and thats that. I won't argue with you. Period.

What this got to do with arguing?

I posted my opinion that women can, and are as successful as men in politics, and cited a relevant example. COnsidering how far we've come in the last 100 years, i think that speaks volumes for the credibility of women being able to compete with men equally in politics.

Quote:

As for Condi-she's also not a "leader" as in President now is she? She has leadership yes- but she is not the President. That's as far as I'm going with that.

The President delegates. When she's doing foreign policy, she is representing the President. The most powerful man in the world obviously thinks a woman is capable of negotiating with foreign leaders on his behalf.

I'd give you an example of a woman president in America but I can't. So I gave you the next best thing.

Chauvinism doesn't stop unless we make it stop. Saying a man is going to get the job done better isn't going to help that.

 

[*Stargazer*]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raerae Chauvinism doesn't stop unless we make it stop. Saying a man is going to get the job done better isn't going to help that.

Not to mention that is historically and factually incorrect.

 

[Raerae]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ladybug10678 Not to mention that is historically and factually incorrect.

I'm not following...

 

[*Stargazer*]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raerae I'm not following...

Sorry, I'm saying that it is also factually and historically incorrect to state that a male leader will get the job done better than a female one.

 

[Hawkeye]

I'm not saying your opinion isn't valid.
I just want YOU to say MY opinion is just as valid as yours.
Sometimes I feel you don't want to say hey its OK we disagree thats fine, you just want to argue without trying to get a perspective. That's whats wrong with arguing sometimes.

Condi may represent the president and she may talk with others etc but who was the one who appointed her? A MALE. Who is the one that makes the decisions in this country (other than congress?) A man. Who is the one who is the figure head of the U.S? A man.

It's kind of like that old biblical thing that the U.S. is stuck in that the man must be the head of the household. That's how it is weather we like it or not in many of the middle eastern countries and in many other countries. Condi can go and represent but the real answer lies behind the figure head (whoever the president is).

Now you and I both know good and well that the president vetos etc and congress is the one who makes the laws. Maybe Nancy Pelosi is a better example? But even her we're seeing this male cheauvinism crap going on.

Also- WHO is saying that a male will get the job better done than a female? Who? I'm not. If you look through all my posts on here you will see that I don't agree with the reasoning but that's just the way it is. Heck, I even posted a WEBSITE that showed the women of the modern day in power!The world may say it- the middle east, etc but don't say that because I'm bringing this up that I'm stating that a man is better than a woman because they aren't.

This is the last post on this thread because I have a feeling I'll be repeating myself over and over and nobody is going to understand what I'm saying and quite frankly I have to much other stuff to worry about than this post.

Misschieveous-sorry to hijack your thread like this.

 

[Raerae]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hawkeye I'm not saying your opinion isn't valid. I just want YOU to say MY opinion is just as valid as yours.

Where did I ever say your opinion wasn't valid? Or even argue with you? All I did was show an example of a woman who has been successful with MEast politics, and ask your opinion on it.

 

[Raerae]

I do think that however, that when a Woman does take office, she better be ready for much more pressure, testing and scruteny of her administration than any male. She is going to set the bar for how successful any future woman will have for running for office for a very long time.

If she does an amazing job, we'll see more women presidents. If she does an average, or poor job, we probably wont see another for a very long time.

 

[*Stargazer*]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raerae All I did was show an example of a woman who has been successful with MEast politics, and ask your opinion on it.

And your example was good. I can even point out women in high political places IN the Middle East that get taken seriously, so I completely agree with your ideas that it makes no sense to say that the ME won't take us seriously with a female leader.

I also think that using Hillary Clinton is an example for anything about female leaders is problematic because I think you'll find that a good majority of the people that DISlike her do so because of her personality and who she is, not because she's a woman. Goodness knows, that's the case for me.

 

[Beauty Mark]

I think the first anything is going to have trouble from some people at first, which is what I think Hawkeye is getting at. Some countries appear to hold men with more respect, which is problematic when dealing with international relations or if it's your own country, dealing with domestic relations. It's so sad that some men will not take a woman seriously because she is a woman and for no other reason. That's why I'm never for electing someone for the sake of being the first x.

However, we have to start somewhere and I hope whenever the first woman (or black or Asian or Hispanic or biracial or gay or non-Christian/atheist, etc.) president comes along, it's someone who deserves the position, not some elected just because of that status.

Back to the original post. It's really remarkable that these two people have such conviction and have such a contrasting view compared to the rest of the people in their lives.

 

[Hawkeye]

Thank you Beauty_mark. That's exactly what I was trying to say.