Teen Driver-Wanted to Kill herself-Killed a Mother, put a child in hospitol r.o

[caffn8me]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raerae This isn't murder, Man 2. She didn't plan on killing anyone other than herself, tragically, as life usually is in these types of things, the person who SHOULD die, never does. And sadly there are only victims of their selfishness.

Anyone with more than an ounce and a half of functioning brain will soon realise that if they launch their car at another car in the opposite direction with the intention of killing themself, there is just as good a chance of killing the occupants of the other car, all things being equal. The other car doesn't have any magic invulnerability. She was well educated, her actions were deliberate. The correct charge is murder.

As Ladybug10678 says, she'd have been better off driving into a tree. Firstly, she'd have been much less likely to injure anyone else (not many folks live in trees these days) and secondly, she'd have been more likely to kill herself. Trees are very unforgiving and don't have crumple zones. In a high speed collision between a car and a tree, the tree always wins.

 

[Beauty Mark]

I can get what Raerae is saying, also someone who's coped with depression and suicidal thoughts for a good portion of life. However, I honestly can't say I completely understand, because all the thoughts revolved around only ending my life.

Then again, I've also dealt with irrational people and irrational thoughts; painfully obvious things sometimes go out the window. I don't know how I'd charge the girl.

 

[Raerae]

This is lawyer talk btw, i dont approve of her actions and find them terrible. Especially since I've dealt with depression and other situations that can make suicide seem like the better option than living.

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Originally Posted by caffn8me The correct charge is murder.

I personally dont see how they will manage to prove that one in court. According to the article, the charge is Felony Murder.

From: http://www.georgiacriminaldefense.co...nt-crimes.html chose this sight since laws vary by state, figured using georgia would be the most accurate.

Felony Murder - O.C.G.A. 16-5-1(c)

Felony murder occurs when a person causes the death of another person while in the commission of a felony. Under the felony-murder rule, malice (an intent to cause the person’s death) is irrelevant. The defendant need not have any intention to kill someone, the fact that someone died as a result of his felonious act is sufficient. Example: If Joe is robbing a bank, and a customer who is in the middle of the event suffers a heart attack and dies, it is likely that Joe will be charged with felony-murder.

Punishment: Felony, life in prison or death penalty.

The Assauly with a Motor Vehicle charge is what makes this a felony murder case. However, I really dont see how they will prove is considering the circumstances.

There going to have to be able to prove without a reasonable doubt, that she specifically got into the car to commit suicide. And it wasn't some other factor that took away her ability to be rational, and it was just a tragic case of wrong place wrong time that she happened to be driving when it happened.

I highly doubt she will get convicted of a felony murder. I woulnd't convict her of it if I was on the jury, however my opinion is biased based on my own personal expierences. She'll get Man2, and probably get sent to a looney bin for treatment.

 

[*Stargazer*]

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Originally Posted by Raerae You've never called someone when you were super upset?

Sure I have. My point is that she has FULL control of her faculties. Regardless of whether or not she was depressed, she KNEW what she was doing. And honestly, you can't tell me that it is hard to understand that if you ram another car, there is a distinct possibility that someone else will, at the very least, injured.

My sympathy begins and ends with the dead woman and her poor family. I also quite honestly believe that if the race/class issue in this case were reserved, there wouldn't be nearly as much defense (not in the context of the people in this discussion) of this 16 year old girl.

 

[Raerae]

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Originally Posted by Ladybug10678 Sure I have. My point is that she has FULL control of her faculties. Regardless of whether or not she was depressed, she KNEW what she was doing. And honestly, you can't tell me that it is hard to understand that if you ram another car, there is a distinct possibility that someone else will, at the very least, injured.

I think it's more from the point of, when your not suicidal, knowing that someone else might suffer in a car accident is fairly black and white. However when you are emotionally suicidal, things like that become a lot more gray.

I think a of this changes because of of the fact that love/rejection was involved as the trigger to her suicidal episode. Which makes it a lot different from say, a suicide to avoid shaming your family, or any of those other, I'll call them, "rational suicides" for lack of a better term. Things like sepuku (spelling?) or suicide by cop come to mind as this type of suicide. Where it is carefully planned out in advance. This wasn't a cry for attention, like some other have said. She already went through that phase when she went around telling everyone she was going to kill herself.

But the fact that I believe (this is conjecture, I can't read her mind) this was more emotionally triggered, that rationality goes out the window. It's like when someone kills another person in the heat of passion. You obviously know if you inflict physical harm on someone there is Quote:

a distinct possibility that someone else will, at the very least, will get injured.

Or in this case, get killed. But it happens anyways. The person didn't mean to kill the other person, and in many cases (especially if it's a spouse) regrets it after. They just lost total control because of the power emotions have over us.

Her suicide could have been much the same. She could have been driving when she broke with reality and was consumed with emotion over the subject. Fear, rejection, shame, heartbreak, whatever. And wrenched the wheel into incomming traffic.

 

[giz2000]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raerae This is lawyer talk btw, i dont approve of her actions and find them terrible. Especially since I've dealt with depression and other situations that can make suicide seem like the better option than living. I personally dont see how they will manage to prove that one in court. According to the article, the charge is Felony Murder. From: http://www.georgiacriminaldefense.co...nt-crimes.html chose this sight since laws vary by state, figured using georgia would be the most accurate. Felony Murder - O.C.G.A. 16-5-1(c) Felony murder occurs when a person causes the death of another person while in the commission of a felony. Under the felony-murder rule, malice (an intent to cause the person’s death) is irrelevant. The defendant need not have any intention to kill someone, the fact that someone died as a result of his felonious act is sufficient. Example: If Joe is robbing a bank, and a customer who is in the middle of the event suffers a heart attack and dies, it is likely that Joe will be charged with felony-murder. Punishment: Felony, life in prison or death penalty. The Assauly with a Motor Vehicle charge is what makes this a felony murder case. However, I really dont see how they will prove is considering the circumstances. There going to have to be able to prove without a reasonable doubt, that she specifically got into the car to commit suicide. And it wasn't some other factor that took away her ability to be rational, and it was just a tragic case of wrong place wrong time that she happened to be driving when it happened. I highly doubt she will get convicted of a felony murder. I woulnd't convict her of it if I was on the jury, however my opinion is biased based on my own personal expierences. She'll get Man2, and probably get sent to a looney bin for treatment.

I know each state has their laws, and according to the State of Georgia, what she did constitutes felony murder. In a jury trial (which her attorney would be a FOOL not to go for, unless he pleads her out), the jury will be told to follow the letter of the law, i.e, did she get into a car with the intention of causing harm either to herself or someone else AND did she actually cause harm to someone else? It's that cut and dry...

According to the facts of the case, she wanted to kill herself (cause harm to herself), and ended up killing someone else (caused harm to someone else, regardless if she meant it or not...in this case, I doubt she singled the victim out). She also sent the text message to the girl she had a crush on, stating that she was going to kill herself (proving her intent). It's not hard to prove that she was planning to kill herselfIf the jury was given this charge alone, and the jury instructions were clear to consider felony murder ONLY, they would have to find her guilty of the charge, regardless of what their feelings for the defendant may be. I have sat on countless juries and this is how it works every time...sometimes, justice is served, other times, it's not. She's got herself a good defense attorney, so we'll see what happens...

Someone who has had similiar experiences to yours probably wouldn't be chosen to sit on her jury anyway. The prosecutors would make sure of that...by the way, I do agree that this girl needs psychiatric help, but she also needs to pay for taking the life of that woman.

 

[Raerae]

Quote:

Originally Posted by giz2000 i.e, did she get into a car with the intention of causing harm either to herself or someone else AND did she actually cause harm to someone else? It's that cut and dry...

Thats what I think they will have a hard time proving whithout a reasonable doubt. How can they prove she specifically got into the car to commit suicide? She didn't write a note saying she was gonna kill herself, and THEN get into the car.

She sent a text message while driving. Doesn't mean she didn't have the emotional suicidal breakdown while she was driving (building up from earlier in the day, and it just tragically happened in the car), and send the text message while flipping out screaming with tears streaming down her face thinking about nothing but killing herself and JUST herself before cranking the wheel into oncomming traffic with her eyes closed and foot on the gas.

Was she irresponsible? Yes. Does she deserve being segregated from the whole of society until it's proved beyond a doubt that she wont injur herself or someone else? Yes. Does she deserve a life sentence? I'm not sold on that.

 

[giz2000]

Well, she's got herself a decent attorney...it will be interesting to see how this case turns out...

 

[Hawkeye]

It's in GA. She'll get off. GA jurys dont convict 16 year olds.

 

[*Stargazer*]

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Originally Posted by youbeabitch GA jurys dont convict 16 year olds.

Just a random question, I'm not trying to be combative or argumentative with your statement, but out of curiousity do juries there tend to convict 16 year old black males? Just in general, not in any specific crimes similar to this.

 

[Hawkeye]

you know i dont reall any situation in the recent past with a 16 year old black male involved off the top of my head. I would say that again, it's GA, most 16 year olds face a lot of leneancy in this state-regardless of race.

So my answer would be tentatively "no".

 

[Raerae]

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Originally Posted by Ladybug10678 Just a random question, I'm not trying to be combative or argumentative with your statement, but out of curiousity do juries there tend to convict 16 year old black males? Just in general, not in any specific crimes similar to this.

Well since she said, "juries dont tend to convict 16 year olds" unless black males who are 16 are somehow different from any other 16 year old, they would be apart of that group.

How does race even fit into her statement? Other than trying to shoe horn it in.

 

[*Stargazer*]

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Originally Posted by Raerae How does race even fit into her statement? Other than trying to shoe horn it in.

It doesn't, hence the word *random*

 

[Raerae]

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Originally Posted by Ladybug10678 It doesn't, hence the word *random*

Just wondering where it came from in general. I could understand had a qualifer been used like, "GA doesn't convict white 16 year old girls." But sine none what used, what prompted the question?

 

[princessOfpOi]

Speaking as somebody who has attempted suicide, I would say she knew what she was doing...You need to be lucid to be able to drive and send a text message..