Video Killed the Radio Star

[Dark_Phoenix]

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Originally Posted by Raerae Songwriters write the vast majority of songs we hear on albums. And if the "artist" help, it's usually in collaboration with a song writer, not by themselves. And everyone gets their voices fixed in the studio, everyone. No one sings live these days, everyone is just lipsyncing. But regardless, who says they are musicians? They are entertainers.

Even musicians entertainers like Alanis Morissette, Kurt Cobain, and TLC had their aesthetic appearence impact their success. I don't think Nirvana would have been nearly as popular in mainstream music (i.e. receivng airtime) if Cobain hadn't been considered attractive.

The definition of "sexy" also changes over time... like how thin/busty is popular now, heavy/busty was popular then (not the 90's... just in general). So what if some artists have to change appearence? imo, they're just following what's in.

As for a studio... I'm a huge electronica, and downtempo fan so I'll keep shut about remixing, and synthesizing (for now :X ).

BTW... imo, the recent discussion of sex in lyrics is a liberal reaction, like how music about drug use was another one in the 60's and 70's. Both are looked down upon by our parents, and their promotion has sparked controversy (i.e. Does "I'm a Slave 4 U" make girls want to have sex? Does the album "Yellow Submarine" make listeners want to use drugs?)

 

[GreekChick]

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Originally Posted by Raerae <3 Mariah btw. Does it bother people if a singer does pre written material? I personally don't like a song less if it's written by someone else. Or like it more if it's written by someone.

I don't think it's about liking a song or whoever wrote it. It's about the lack of lyrical depth that's taking over. No more effort is being put into content. Sure, Sean Paul can make fun club music, but at the end of the day, does anybody understand what he's singing about?

 

[Dark_Phoenix]

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Originally Posted by GreekChick I don't think it's about liking a song or whoever wrote it. It's about the lack of lyrical depth that's taking over.

Then I guess you don't recognize the deep, philosophical meanings of:
"What you gon' do with all that junk?
All that junk inside that trunk?
I'm a get, get, get, get you drunk,
Get you love drunk off my hump."

I think there's plenty of more deep songs. They might not be as popular because not everyone can relate to what the musician is signing about or they don't like how the musician sounds.

 

[Raerae]

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Originally Posted by Shimmer Oh so sorry, I forgot about what a total bomb "Because of You" was, among her other qualifications. "Behind These Hazel Eyes" was terrible, despite being number 10 in the year end chart for Billboard in 05.

I didn't say those songs were bad. Her first album was amazing because she didn't write it.

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Really, I don't know what I was thinking, pointing out Clarkson as a success story, what with all that is working against her, and the wholly unproven potential for success she's shown so far. Obviously, her talent and capabilities are inflated...everyone in the music industry skirmishes with Clive Davis and wins.

Again, because she didn't write it.

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And, as only one song has been officially released as a single ("Never Again") it's not surprising the rest of the disk hasn't received any airtime.

If her single was good, it would be topping the charts. It's not even in the top 10 anymore, and never even made it to #1 like her other hit singles, which were not written by her.

 

[GreekChick]

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Originally Posted by Emma_Frost Then I guess you don't recognize the deep, philosophical meanings of: "What you gon' do with all that junk? All that junk inside that trunk? I'm a get, get, get, get you drunk, Get you love drunk off my hump." I think there's plenty of more deep songs. They might not be as popular because not everyone can relate to what the musician is signing about or they don't like how the musician sounds.

Of course I do! As a matter of fact, it's going to be my wedding song!

 

[Shimmer]

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Originally Posted by Raerae I didn't say those songs were bad. Her first album was amazing because she didn't write it. Again, because she didn't write it. If her single was good, it would be topping the charts. It's not even in the top 10 anymore, and never even made it to #1 like her other hit singles, which were not written by her.

"Because of You" was written by her, about her parents' divorce. "Behind These Hazel Eyes", "Walk Away", both were released, both are songs she's got first billing on song writing credit for.

Her first album she DID NOT write, and only sold 2.5million units.

Her second album she had a major hand in writing several of the songs, and almost all of the singles released with the album were songs she had lead credit in writing. The second album sold 5.7 million units in the US and over 11 million worldwide. It's been lauded as 5 times platinum. I'm not sure where you're getting your information, but you might want to double check it, as it's incorrect.

First album = she had no hand in writing the songs. 2.5 million units.

Second album = she wrote/cowrote all of the singles released except one, I believe, and it sold 5.7 million units in the US.

It sounds, based on worldwide sales and chartlists, like as 'amazing' as you're claiming the first album to have been, the second one rather dwarfed it.

I don't mind opinion. I love different opinions, I think they're great. But, when people have different opinions, it's incumbent upon us all to research the foundation of that opinion and substantiate it.

Your ascertation that the first album was amazing (because she didn't write it) and the second one wasn't (because she did) is absolutely your personal opinion.
However, sales, charts, and RIAA certifications refute that stance.


Oh, and she didn't go up against Clive Davis and win because she didn't write the album, she won because she DID. Her performance for her label has been billed as one of their top four artists. She's got the clout to go out on a limb, based on her performance off the album she DID write...her five time platinum second one.

 

[Beauty Mark]

I see Kelly Clarkson as someone who has broken the mold somewhat; however, she also has the added bonus of being the first winner of American Idol. Sometimes, though, IMO she looks like a heavier (not saying she's fat, by all means) version of an Olsen twin.

I wonder if people like Missy Elliot would be around today if they didn't have the music from the 1990s (history) to keep them around. I also think of "ugly" people who were big names during the 1990s like Blues Traveler and some of that kind of music.

It seems like you have to have an added appeal to you to stay in the business, even if it has nothing to do with talent.

 

[Raerae]

Co-Writing, isn't writing.

 

[MiCHiE]

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Originally Posted by Raerae Co-Writing, isn't writing.

LOL. Nor is ad-libbing. Tell that to Beyoncé.

 

[CaraAmericana]

Melinda was/is hotness, what is that article referring!!!?????

 

[Shimmer]

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Originally Posted by Raerae Co-Writing, isn't writing.

Are you serious?
There are FEW songs written now that are written by ONE person.
Look at who the lead credits go to, the secondary credits are contributors, the lead credits are listed first, secondary are listed after that. The lead credits go to the majority shareholder in the song.

Good grief.

 

[Beauty Mark]

Lennon-McCartney. I'd wager they actually co-wrote.

 

[Shimmer]

How John & Paul handled it.
Q&A

 

[blueyedlady87]

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Originally Posted by Raerae Songwriters write the vast majority of songs we hear on albums. And if the "artist" help, it's usually in collaboration with a song writer, not by themselves. And everyone gets their voices fixed in the studio, everyone. No one sings live these days, everyone is just lipsyncing. But regardless, who says they are musicians? They are entertainers.

I have to say that I recently was at a concert where I saw Kellie Pickler (of American idol fame) and Taylor Swift (country music's latest it girl) and they both sang live and they KILLED it! I normally don't like country but we had such awesome seats i went just for fun. and i was surprised, because they both sounded even better live than on cd. Same for Akon (on tour w/ Gwen Stefani right now), he's insane live! Beautiful voice, great body, sigh.

 

[blueyedlady87]

In my opinion Kelly Clarkson's third cd cannot compare with the second. I just listened to a bootleg of it and it was not impressive. I adored her 2nd, the 1st was just boring. And the third is like meh. Just my take on it. When she keeps her weight down she looks pretty but right now she is lookin rough! The cover of the new cd is photoshopped to death (almost as bad as Mariah Carey's Emancipation of Mimi), at least from the leaks I've seen.

 

[Raerae]

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Originally Posted by Shimmer Are you serious? There are FEW songs written now that are written by ONE person. Look at who the lead credits go to, the secondary credits are contributors, the lead credits are listed first, secondary are listed after that. The lead credits go to the majority shareholder in the song. Good grief.

How is it my problem that many mainstream people aren't talented enough to write an entire song themselves?

I think thats a big deal personally.

I believe that there is a difference in quality between just singers, and real singer-songwriters. Just as there is a difference between singers and studio singers. Just because "FEW" songs are written by one person for mainstream music consumption, doesn't mean that MANY artists/bands dont compose their own lyrics and music themselves. Sure they might not be getting air time in KISS.FM with Ryan Seacrest in the morning, but it doesn't make them bad artists. They just probably lack the image to make it in the mainstream. Or have yet to be discovered. But even then, a lot of times going mainstream, ruins the magic, because songwriting is more about $$$, than music at that point.

 

[Shimmer]

....
Are you kidding?
Seriously?

And...just so you understand how songwriting credits are divvied up, she may have written the lyrics, and someone else written the music, which means they have to SHARE the credit for the song. If she wrote the lyrics and part of the melody, she's got 75% investment in the song.

Please stop.
Seriously.
You're talking about something based on your opinion, which is fine, but you're basing your arguments on increasingly ludicrous positioning, which isn't fine.
Nothing in that post is remotely related to Kelly Clarkson, which is what started the discussion between me and you.
Of course there's a difference between a singer and a singer
songwriter. However, to imply that being a singer and not a songwriter diminishes talent is simply ridiculous.

Example: George Strait.
One of the most prolific, successful, long term, highly acclaimed, living legends (this is indisputable) of country music today. He holds the record for most Number 1 songs on Billboard Country Music charts, and has had more albums certified gold or platinum in the United States than any other country artist and only Elvis Presley and The Beatles have more overall.

In 25 years of recording, he's had 54 number 1 songs on all charts (including Radio and Records and the now-defunct Gavin Report charts). His 42 Billboard country #1's have set a record, two more than previous record-holder Conway Twitty.

Strait has sold more than 62 million recordings and his certifications from the RIAA include 13 multi-platinum, 32 platinum and 35 gold albums. His overall certification numbers are third of all musicians, behind Elvis Presley and The Beatles.

Strait has won 16 CMA Awards, including consecutive entertainer of the year honors in 1989 and 1990, and holds the career record for CMA nominations with seventy-three. Strait was elected into the Country Music Hall of Fame in 2006.He was only the second artist (after Eddy Arnold in 1966) to be inducted into the Hall of Fame while still actively recording and producing #1 hits.

I say all of that because, if you look at his discography, it doesn't appear that he writes most of his songs. In fact, few of his albums show his songwriting skills.

Yet it would be hardly accurate to say that he lacks in skill as an artist because he sings songs written by someone else.

 

[Raerae]

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Originally Posted by Shimmer .... Are you kidding? Seriously? And...just so you understand how songwriting credits are divvied up, she may have written the lyrics, and someone else written the music, which means they have to SHARE the credit for the song. If she wrote the lyrics and part of the melody, she's got 75% investment in the song. Please stop. Seriously. You're talking about something based on your opinion, which is fine, but you're basing your arguments on increasingly ludicrous positioning, which isn't fine. Nothing in that post is remotely related to Kelly Clarkson, which is what started the discussion between me and you. Of course there's a difference between a singer and a singer songwriter. However, to imply that being a singer and not a songwriter diminishes talent is simply ridiculous.

It was indirectly related to Kelly. Kelly is an amazing singer. And a medoicre lyricist. Does that diminish the fact that she "used" to put out hit singles? No.

And yes. People who are singer-songwrites are MORE talented, than just vocalists. Thats a fact. And it is important. So many good singers/bands are ruined when they sell out and go mainstream.

Being successful in the music industry is not about the full package. As your coutry music example guy clearly shows. As all he is, according to you, is a good singer.

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Example: George Strait. One of the most prolific, successful, long term, highly acclaimed, living legends (this is indisputable) of country music today.

Thats easily disputable. He sings country =p That kills his credability right there.

 

[Shimmer]

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Originally Posted by Raerae It was indirectly related to Kelly. Kelly is an amazing singer. And a medoicre lyricist. Does that diminish the fact that she "used" to put out hit singles? No. And yes. People who are singer-songwrites are MORE talented, than just vocalists. Thats a fact. And it is important. So many good singers/bands are ruined when they sell out and go mainstream. Being successful in the music industry is not about the full package. As your coutry music example guy clearly shows. As all he is, according to you, is a good singer.

I never said he didn't write. I said he didn't sing his own stuff.
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Thats easily disputable. He sings country =p That kills his credability right there.

Good Lord.
Never mind.

 

[Raerae]

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Originally Posted by Shimmer I never said he didn't write. I said he didn't sing his own stuff.

Kinda pointless writing music if you don't sing it...

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Good Lord. Never mind.

Oh c'mon, that was such a cliche response =p Laugh a little =p