What can we talk about here?

[martygreene]

As it was brought up earlier in this thread- a cross-referencing tool/widget/whateveryoucallit is not currently available for the forum software. This is in fact a very rare attribute for forums. We are keeping our eyes open for such a tool, and will most likely impliment it as soon as one becomes available. It's been brought up before for many things.

As far as why things go to the reccs, reviews, etc. forums is for the sake of the ability to find things. When a user comes to the site looking for a review of a product, even an "of color" specific product, or looking for what people have reccomended for a product, they will go to those forums and look. If one forum includes general discussion, chatter, cosmetics discussion, reviews, fotds, tutorials, reccs, and everything else willy-nilly it becomes havok and incredibly difficult to navigate. Those of you who have been with us since the inception of Specktra will remember those days from when we first started.

 

[claresauntie]

I kinda meant something as simple as this: http://specktra.net/showthread.php?t=66845.

I understand that a x-referencing dealio isn't available, but can't people do this until one is?

 

[hyperRealGurl]

Quote:

Originally Posted by claresauntie I kinda meant something as simple as this: http://specktra.net/showthread.php?t=66845. I understand that a x-referencing dealio isn't available, but can't people do this until one is?

i can def see if a member is asking for a swatch of a color they are looking for, then posting a direct link from specktra from the swatch section.. or if a member has a question regaurding a specific product from Mac, Nars exc. to link them to a post that is posted in either Mac, or Nars ect. That would work. however if someone is asking for recs i would find it hard to link them directly if the the thread has been moved to recs.

Its something we still have to work on to get this section in order

 

[Hawkeye]

Onafyre! I just love that name

I think you may have the right idea. And I understand the frustraition. I mean I happened to look through after reading this thread and went wow there are a lot of moved thereads- what is the point of having such a forum if it's only going to get moved!

But at the same time we have to remember that there is an appropriate place for every topic. I don't think that Hyperrealgirl just likes moving things around - I really don't. But she as a moderator has to do her job and what Specktra asked her to do.

I think it would be a very good idea that you and the other member suggested to put up a set of guidelines of what can and cannot be posted in the forum because it does seem very very confusing. But at the same time- this forum does seem nonexistant with everything being moved.

But she's only doing what she has been asked to do. Anytime that there is a request for a recommendation-it goes in the recommendations. And that is necessary because other people may want an answer to that question. But at the same time - that's 80% of what the ladies discuss in here.

Same with certain products like how does NARS etc it should be moved to the appropriate forum just so it's easier to find not just for the gorgeous ladies of color but also others.

It helps things to flow easier

I do think that since it does cause you a lot of concern I do recommend (and you probably already have!) - because I don't believe you are wasting anybodies time, I just am not sure you brought your ideas forth in a manner that would help what you are trying to get across the most.

But it's OK!

I think the most effective way to do this and you will get a response that is appropriate-I have all the faith in the world in these ladies-is contact Janice or Juneplum. Or even e-mail the mod who you do question and ask what is going on.

Also-I know you don't see why discussing things in private when others have the same questions is necessary-but calling people out on a public forum is very insulting to anybody! And I have to admit it really did seem like you were calling Hyper out. I'm really 100% sure if you had just paged Christine and stated your case she would've put a sticky up there with no questions asked

But it does kind of blindside a person and it also makes the other party feel very defensive. Does that make any sense? Suggestions on specktra are ALWAYS welcome but again-its how it's done that will get the more positive reaction.

Anyway back to the thing at task (now I'm rambling-but thats what I do

) -

since it really does concern you e-mail Janice, Juneplum, and Hyperrealgurl and tell them your concerns because they are very very valid and I promise you- you will get a response and they are very nice ladies and it will help out a lot.

And I suspect that once you talk it over with them tell them your frustraitions that they will e-mail each other and put a sticky up or something like that that will clarify the issue.

So don't worry-keep your chin up.

I'm sure a solution will come

 

[bsquared]

I like what Hawkeye said . . . so I was inspired to post as well

if a topic is started in the BoC forum and it's about recs or whatevertheheck and it's moved, then whats the point of having a BoC forum? Everything will be moved then because there is always anoher "place" that the topic could have started in. I thought BoC was a place that women of color (and others) could post/reply about things that concerned THEM specifically? Posting here doesn't mean that you don't want ANYONE else to read it, it just means that you want to bring it to the immediate attention of WoC. I don't know any of the moderators personally, nor do I have an opinion of there individual practices and/or views therefore this isn't directed at anyone personally just a general observation and opinion from a long time specktra lurker and new member

. So, if you feel the need to refute me and my opinion then PM me and we can clear it up.

Personally, the BoC forum is the first forum I go to when I make my rounds through specktra and the last one I stop at before leaving. I appreciate not having to sift through the other forums just to find the topic that relates to my skin tone, sometimes. If I want to find out what folks recommend for my skintone immediately then BOOM it's right here without all the searching and sifting.

I hope we find a way to work this out for the good, I really like the BoC section and specktra as a whole. Lets not let our cyber feelings get hurt over this matter, we're all women here so lets treat each other as such. I agree that there should be some type of crossposting mechanism but in the meantime lets just take advantage of the resources we have.

toodles ladies

 

[Hawkeye]

You know as I was reading your post since you do check through it a lot why don't we have subforums for this much like we do our subforums for other topics? Like for recs and stuff?

That would be a good idea that would help this problem a little bit

my only fear is that i wouldn't want anyone to feel segregated if the mods did decide to do that.

 

[hyperRealGurl]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hawkeye I think it would be a very good idea that you and the other member suggested to put up a set of guidelines of what can and cannot be posted in the forum because it does seem very very confusing. But at the same time- this forum does seem nonexistant with everything being moved.

There is a set of guidelines in here that ive posted on January 3.2007
http://www.specktra.net/showthread.php?t=62951

 

[Me220]

I'm still really unclear as to what the guidelines mean. I think we need to consider audience as a determining factor for where a post goes. There are concerns that are better suited to women of color, but everyone is wecome on the board, just as most of the WoC are active in other sections of the board. If this forum was created for us to talk to each other, why can't we choose what we talk about? I actually would love subcategories in our forum, that way we can define our posts by both audience and purpose.

 

[hyperRealGurl]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Me220 I'm still really unclear as to what the guidelines mean. I think we need to consider audience as a determining factor for where a post goes. There are concerns that are better suited to women of color, but everyone is wecome on the board, just as most of the WoC are active in other sections of the board. If this forum was created for us to talk to each other, why can't we choose what we talk about? I actually would love subcategories in our forum, that way we can define our posts by both audience and purpose.

ME220 im trying to come up with a way to implament guidelines that are more clear for everyone to follow by. time is what i need...

If any members have specific suj im asking that you PM it to me and i will go over it with Janice to see if we can work something out

 

[Shimmer]

Why can't the audience be women? just...women...regardless of race and color?
There was a thread awhile back about a customer coming into the MAC store and not wanting to work with an MA because she wasn't the same race as the customer...yet the MA the customer didnt want to work with was one of the more talented ones in the store and would likely have been able to assist the customer quite well.

I'm really curious, why do women of darker pigmentation need a seperate forum and subforums to discuss amongst themselves makeup, when the entire site is dedicated to makeup for all women?

 

[hyperRealGurl]

Quote:

Originally Posted by martygreene As it was brought up earlier in this thread- a cross-referencing tool/widget/whateveryoucallit is not currently available for the forum software. This is in fact a very rare attribute for forums. We are keeping our eyes open for such a tool, and will most likely impliment it as soon as one becomes available. It's been brought up before for many things. As far as why things go to the reccs, reviews, etc. forums is for the sake of the ability to find things. When a user comes to the site looking for a review of a product, even an "of color" specific product, or looking for what people have reccomended for a product, they will go to those forums and look. If one forum includes general discussion, chatter, cosmetics discussion, reviews, fotds, tutorials, reccs, and everything else willy-nilly it becomes havok and incredibly difficult to navigate. Those of you who have been with us since the inception of Specktra will remember those days from when we first started.

This basicly explains why all the forums in Specktra is set up the way they are..

 

[martygreene]

As for the question about why have this forum at all if reccs, etc. will still be moved to their respective forums, this is something that the staff and administration has been discussing since the original request for this forum to exist. Where to draw the line. I personally am reluctant to make a reccs, cosmetic discussion, reviews, etc. sub forum for this forum. I don't want to make a mini race-specific specktra inside of specktra. I agree that the overarching audience for specktra is people who want to talk about makeup. Not even just women, but people.

As for the rationalization that this forum is a necessity and wanted so that people don't have to sift through other forums for information pertinent to your skintone, that's simply not going to hold true and already doesn't. You're still going to have to sort out the golden from the tawny from the mocha from the ebony. The asiatic skintones (which all vary greatly based on ethnic origin), from the african skintones, from the pacific islander skintones, from the latina skintones, from the... It's not just darker skintones who have to sift- we all do. I have to sift to find info that's pertinent to my transparent white skin (caused by medical condition, not my choice). Others have to sift to find things pertinent to their tan skin, or olive undertone, or cool undertone, or what have you. No matter what amount of melanin you have in your skin, what base tones you have, etc. you're going to have to sift through some information which isn't pertinent to you to find that which is.

 

[~*Starlicious*~]

Question about this section --
Want to chat about the brands that work for you, or find out what works for others?
If I post what works for me -- for example, I'm NC 43 and I want to know what other brand to use for my foundation. Someone posts that I can use Chanel's medium foundation. Would this be considered a reco?

Question about this statement
Whether it's Department or Drugstore brands, talk about it here
If I posted something about Revlon or Stila, wouldn't it be moved to the forum for other makeup brands?

 

[Beauty Mark]

The way I see it is that there are lj communities dedicated towards various types of beauty. If you go to a general one, of course, there'll be people who'll help, but there's a larger concentration of x people in x_beauty community than in the general one.

I've always seen this section as a sub-section of the general cosmetics section, which doesn't include recs. To me, recs are very specific to you, whereas general discussion is pertinent to everyone, like does this collection work for darker women?

Just my two cents.

 

[Me220]

There are makeup issues specific to women of color. And while I appreciate the forum, there seems to be a lot of hostility from non-WoC toward this forum, and there is a definite disconnect between what the WoC want from the section and what non-WoC want to give. And to be perfectly honest, in light of the hostility, I am questioning what I want from this site period.

And this is not at HyperRealGurl, this is about being able to choose your audience. I am all over this site, I read information posted by all women for all things, but there are some issues that I would like addressed by women of color that not only have to do with just makeup, but the perceptions accompanying the makeup. And the majority of threads in here have been invaded by non-WoC telling WoC how to feel, what to do, and what to think about what being a WoC means. It's about self-identification vs. identifying an "other." And this boils down to who gets to determine what is important. And if you (in general) feel that what we are discussing isn't important enough to warrant our own control or at least a semblance of balance, then I would rather I know now and have you remove the board, than through some creative editing on the backend.

 

[awhookie7]

I could be wrong, but I believe that this forum was created because WOC seem to have a harder time finding makeup that suits our skintone while non -WOC seem to have no problem because most of the makeup being made is geared toward non WOC. We are now just beginning to see makeup that suits WOC. I don't know how many times I have went to a drugstore and I could not find my shade. I became really fustrated at this and wondered why all makeup seemed to be geared toward non - WOC, as if WOC don't wear makeup. I love that we have a forum where we (WOC) can suggest and/or communicate to each other what makeup looks good on our skin, whether it be from a department store or drug store. This forum was not meant to be biased at all. I believe all women are welcome here. I love the fact that I can click on a forum and have all the information there that I need, rather than to search all forums for what I am looking. This forum has really helped me. By reading what works for other WOC I can now make better purchases from stores and therefore be satisfied when I get home with what I have bought. Like I said, I could be wrong but in my opinion this why there is a separate forum for WOC.

 

[Larkin]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shimmer A recommendation is a recommendation. A color story/cosmetic discussion is exactly that, that's what those forums are for. If that's what those forums are for, that's where threads that fall under them are supposed to be moved to.

I don't know any of y'all personally but I feel bad as if my friends or family are bickering. I love all of you guys.

I understand everyone's points. Let me say this and maybe somneone can tell me if they understand/agree.

If I were to ask for a rec here, it isn't because I don't think a white person could help me or reccomend something that becomes me. I might have asked the question here because I'm assuming more women my complexion would view it. Also someone may have used a certain product on our skin and would be able to tell me how it wears. It's more of a numbers thing. I always visit this forum to see if anyone my complexion has posted something they thinks look great on them.

I can't say I visit the Recs board though. Maybe it is wrong to assume more WoC would see a rec/respond to it in BoC.

By doing this, I could have possibly missed or denied someone the opportunity to help me. They may have a friend,coworker,etc who uses/wears something that would look good on me, or they may be an artist who just worked on someone my color and would like to throw in their rec. This sums up my little perspective.

 

[claresauntie]

Quote:

Originally Posted by awhookie7 I could be wrong, but I believe that this forum was created because WOC seem to have a harder time finding makeup that suits our skintone while non -WOC seem to have no problem because most of the makeup being made is geared toward non WOC. We are now just beginning to see makeup that suits WOC. I don't know how many times I have went to a drugstore and I could not find my shade. I became really fustrated at this and wondered why all makeup seemed to be geared toward non - WOC, as if WOC don't wear makeup. I love that we have a forum where we (WOC) can suggest and/or communicate to each other what makeup looks good on our skin, whether it be from a department store or drug store. This forum was not meant to be biased at all. I believe all women are welcome here. I love the fact that I can click on a forum and have all the information there that I need, rather than to search all forums for what I am looking. This forum has really helped me. By reading what works for other WOC I can now make better purchases from stores and therefore be satisfied when I get home with what I have bought. Like I said, I could be wrong but in my opinion this why there is a separate forum for WOC.

See, and that's the crux of the problem/issue at hand. I understand you want the input of the other WoC and that it benefits you. I think that's what many people have interpreted the "guidelines" to mean goes on in the BoC forum -and that interpretation is what has caused the need for this discussion.

I do consider it nickel-and-diming to look through the posts and find "Aha! She mentioned Shiseido, so off it goes to another forum." (No offense, mods- I see the conundrum you face.) Because, otherwise the forum, it seems to me, becomes somewhere to chat about what shade your skin is and speak only in generalites and vagaries, with any specifics warranting a forum change.

I see WoC post requests in other threads, and participate fully in other forums. I've seen WoC ask for recs in the Recs forum, and I've seen product swatches on dark skin (thank you! as an artist I like that!!). But there are situations in which people want advice from a group of people who face their same issues. (Note: this is the reason we were lobbying for a Porcelain Beauties section, for those of us with super fair skin)

It is absolute fact that for years and years, cosmetic companies did not cater to the needs of darker complections. WoC relied on brands specifically for WoC (Fashion Fair, Iman, etc...), but how fair is that? Now, gradually, most companies seem to be expanding their focus, but I believe WoC need a place specifically devoted to them so they can share their finds and tips and such with one another.

Hyperrealgurl- thanks for looking into this.

 

[Hawkeye]

Quote:

There is a set of guidelines in here that ive posted on January 3.2007 [URL]http://www.specktra.net/showthread.php?t=62951[/URL]

I looked through this and I can really truely see why there is a lot of confusion.

Please note that the Beauty Of Color Sections is for...

Beauty of Color is meant for anyone with a deep skintone. Black, Latin, Asian, Pacific Islander, Middle Eastern, or someone with a killer tan! Want to chat about the brands that work for you, or find out what works for others?

This sounds like you can ask for reccomendations.

Do you have a great tip to share?

Again, this sounds like you can ask for recommendations and you can post something that would be placed in the industry discussion boards or the cosmetics discussion boards.

Whether it's Department or Drugstore brands, talk about it here!

Again this looks like you can discuss brands on here as well-also with recs.

Please post your recommendation , looks, tuts, cosmetic discussions, ect. ect..requests in the proper forum.


This reads to me that: Everything I said you can post about- you can't post about it here anymore.

I think it is the wording that is the most confusing.

 

[ARmakeupjunkie]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hawkeye I looked through this and I can really truely see why there is a lot of confusion. Please note that the Beauty Of Color Sections is for... Beauty of Color is meant for anyone with a deep skintone. Black, Latin, Asian, Pacific Islander, Middle Eastern, or someone with a killer tan! Want to chat about the brands that work for you, or find out what works for others? This sounds like you can ask for reccomendations. Do you have a great tip to share? Again, this sounds like you can ask for recommendations and you can post something that would be placed in the industry discussion boards or the cosmetics discussion boards. Whether it's Department or Drugstore brands, talk about it here! Again this looks like you can discuss brands on here as well-also with recs. Please post your recommendation , looks, tuts, cosmetic discussions, ect. ect..requests in the proper forum. This reads to me that: Everything I said you can post about- you can't post about it here anymore. I think it is the wording that is the most confusing.

Thank you, Thank you, Thank you!! You just hit the nail on the head!!