Whats Lost in Prenatal Care
- Thread starter Raerae
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kradge79
Well-known member
To comment on the original article, well, the whole idea that someone would choose to terminate a pregnancy based on the fact that the child has a disability absolutely sickens me. My sister has Down syndrome and her life is just as full and great as anyone, heck sometimes I think she's better off. Is she any less of a person because of it? I don't think so. Sure she has her issues, but point me out one person who doesn't. I believe God chooses to have people with those kinds of disabilities on the earth for a reason, just like anybody else. She has definitely influenced my life in profound ways.
When my sister was born in 1985, the doctor suggested that my parents institutionalize her and basically forget her. Because she has what he obviously viewed as an inconvenience, she doesn't deserve love, care, and a good home? What a bastard.
When my sister was born in 1985, the doctor suggested that my parents institutionalize her and basically forget her. Because she has what he obviously viewed as an inconvenience, she doesn't deserve love, care, and a good home? What a bastard.
Chic 2k6
Well-known member
i was born deaf but im the only deaf one in my family, so when time do come for me, im gona go for a test because I dont want my child to suffer from deafness, its not nice at all and for families having a designer disability baby is just wrong, nothing wrong with a hearing child, he/she could learn to talk, hear everything but also be able to communicate with deaf and non deaf. *sigh* there shouldnt be designer babies full stop.
I'm unsure about God as such but i know that human nature should follow its course and not go designer, just be happy with what they get. sure its a bummer if the mom gets a boy when she wanted a girl.
I'm unsure about God as such but i know that human nature should follow its course and not go designer, just be happy with what they get. sure its a bummer if the mom gets a boy when she wanted a girl.
Raerae
Well-known member
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I think many mothers see it as sparing the child. And with even earlier methods of detection being developed, it's allows future mothers to abort a pregnancy sooner, and concieve a healthy baby. Is it really that sickening to want a healthy child? I dont believe any mothers who find out their children are diagnosed with any of the genetic diseases are pleased with the diagnosis.
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While ignorance is bliss, I really don't think you can compare the lives of someone born with a genetic disability, and another w/out and say their lives are equally fufilling. The discrimination alone that those unlucky enough to be born with a genetic disease face is just one facet of life they will have to endure, that those born healthy, do not.
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I do agree everyone has their issues, I dont really think you can compare being stressed, dramatic, depressed, etc, with having an extra 21st chromasome.
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A lot of these disabilities are a result of civilized life, science, and medacation. Because of out lack of natural predators, and how easy it is to have our basic survival needs met, conditions that would otherwise not exist, are able to thrive. I expect to see a lot more disabilities enter into the population as parents have children at later ages, and medical technologies advance that make conditions that were once fatal (like severe premature births) survivable.
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I do commend those parents/families that give these children the love and support they need. The love of a family should be unconditional once a child is born, sadly it is not always the case.
Originally Posted by kradge79
To comment on the original article, well, the whole idea that someone would choose to terminate a pregnancy based on the fact that the child has a disability absolutely sickens me. |
I think many mothers see it as sparing the child. And with even earlier methods of detection being developed, it's allows future mothers to abort a pregnancy sooner, and concieve a healthy baby. Is it really that sickening to want a healthy child? I dont believe any mothers who find out their children are diagnosed with any of the genetic diseases are pleased with the diagnosis.
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| My sister has Down syndrome and her life is just as full and great as anyone, heck sometimes I think she's better off. |
While ignorance is bliss, I really don't think you can compare the lives of someone born with a genetic disability, and another w/out and say their lives are equally fufilling. The discrimination alone that those unlucky enough to be born with a genetic disease face is just one facet of life they will have to endure, that those born healthy, do not.
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| Is she any less of a person because of it? I don't think so. Sure she has her issues, but point me out one person who doesn't. |
I do agree everyone has their issues, I dont really think you can compare being stressed, dramatic, depressed, etc, with having an extra 21st chromasome.
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| I believe God chooses to have people with those kinds of disabilities on the earth for a reason, just like anybody else. She has definitely influenced my life in profound ways. |
A lot of these disabilities are a result of civilized life, science, and medacation. Because of out lack of natural predators, and how easy it is to have our basic survival needs met, conditions that would otherwise not exist, are able to thrive. I expect to see a lot more disabilities enter into the population as parents have children at later ages, and medical technologies advance that make conditions that were once fatal (like severe premature births) survivable.
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| When my sister was born in 1985, the doctor suggested that my parents institutionalize her and basically forget her. Because she has what he obviously viewed as an inconvenience, she doesn't deserve love, care, and a good home? What a bastard. |
I do commend those parents/families that give these children the love and support they need. The love of a family should be unconditional once a child is born, sadly it is not always the case.
kradge79
Well-known member
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There are plenty of people born healthy that face discrimination...its called racism, sexism, I think you catch my drift.
My sisters life is very fulfilling. Who are we to decide what is fulfilling and what isn't? She lives in a nice house, has a great family, goes to school, sings in the choir, has a lot of fun each and every day. There are several "normal" people out there who don't have half of what she does. Sure their mental faculties might be better, but that doesn't mean their lives are fulfilling. I can assure you that she is very happy.
And what are mothers sparing their children from exactly? If we start "weeding out" babies because they have certain disabilities, where does it stop? This whole topic is a very slippery slope, and no one is going to change my mind on that.
| Originally Posted by Raerae
The discrimination alone that those unlucky enough to be born with a genetic disease face is just one facet of life they will have to endure, that those born healthy, do not. |
There are plenty of people born healthy that face discrimination...its called racism, sexism, I think you catch my drift.
My sisters life is very fulfilling. Who are we to decide what is fulfilling and what isn't? She lives in a nice house, has a great family, goes to school, sings in the choir, has a lot of fun each and every day. There are several "normal" people out there who don't have half of what she does. Sure their mental faculties might be better, but that doesn't mean their lives are fulfilling. I can assure you that she is very happy.
And what are mothers sparing their children from exactly? If we start "weeding out" babies because they have certain disabilities, where does it stop? This whole topic is a very slippery slope, and no one is going to change my mind on that.
Raerae
Well-known member
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And people with disabilities have to face all of those, in addition to the discrimination they will face because of their disability. It may not be right, but regardless, they are treated differently.
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I'm never said they couldn't live a happy life. Like i said, ignorance is bliss. A persons consept of what is "normal" is based on their expierence. However in comparison to those lucky to be born healthy, the life of someone born with down syndrome is limited.
This is why I believe most mothers who find out the diagnosis choose to term their pregnancy. Yes someone born with downs can have a happy full life. But thats a happy full life in relation to another person with downs, not a normal person.
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Sparing from them a life of missed opportunities? Chances are someone with downs will never have the family opportunities, friend opportunities, job opportunities etc, of someone born without.
Look at is this way. Your sisters life sounds very nice, for someone with downs. She sounds very happy a fufilled. But her glass, while full, is a much smaller glass than a person not born with downs. So while her life can be full, it can't be as full as someone w/out downs. And while her life may be fuller than other people w/out downs. Those other people should they choose, could fill their glass up more, they just chose to live a life thats 1/2 empty.
| Originally Posted by kradge79
There are plenty of people born healthy that face discrimination...its called racism, sexism, I think you catch my drift. |
And people with disabilities have to face all of those, in addition to the discrimination they will face because of their disability. It may not be right, but regardless, they are treated differently.
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| My sisters life is very fulfilling. Who are we to decide what is fulfilling and what isn't? She lives in a nice house, has a great family, goes to school, sings in the choir, has a lot of fun each and every day. There are several "normal" people out there who don't have half of what she does. Sure their mental faculties might be better, but that doesn't mean their lives are fulfilling. I can assure you that she is very happy. |
I'm never said they couldn't live a happy life. Like i said, ignorance is bliss. A persons consept of what is "normal" is based on their expierence. However in comparison to those lucky to be born healthy, the life of someone born with down syndrome is limited.
This is why I believe most mothers who find out the diagnosis choose to term their pregnancy. Yes someone born with downs can have a happy full life. But thats a happy full life in relation to another person with downs, not a normal person.
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| And what are mothers sparing their children from exactly? If we start "weeding out" babies because they have certain disabilities, where does it stop? This whole topic is a very slippery slope, and no one is going to change my mind on that. |
Sparing from them a life of missed opportunities? Chances are someone with downs will never have the family opportunities, friend opportunities, job opportunities etc, of someone born without.
Look at is this way. Your sisters life sounds very nice, for someone with downs. She sounds very happy a fufilled. But her glass, while full, is a much smaller glass than a person not born with downs. So while her life can be full, it can't be as full as someone w/out downs. And while her life may be fuller than other people w/out downs. Those other people should they choose, could fill their glass up more, they just chose to live a life thats 1/2 empty.
Beauty Mark
Well-known member
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Are you at least willing/able to consider alternative views? If not, this discussion is pointless for you.
I just think a mother shouldn't be necessarily condemned for aborting a child if she thinks that the life it'll face is going to be worse than just never having it; I'm very pro-choice, as long as the mother is informed about her child and her options. People abort or put children up for adoption for far worse reasons.
It isn't saying what your parents did is wrong, but it's important to remember that there really isn't a right or wrong answer, unless what the parents' do is for selfish reasons.
| And what are mothers sparing their children from exactly? If we start "weeding out" babies because they have certain disabilities, where does it stop? This whole topic is a very slippery slope, and no one is going to change my mind on that. |
Are you at least willing/able to consider alternative views? If not, this discussion is pointless for you.
I just think a mother shouldn't be necessarily condemned for aborting a child if she thinks that the life it'll face is going to be worse than just never having it; I'm very pro-choice, as long as the mother is informed about her child and her options. People abort or put children up for adoption for far worse reasons.
It isn't saying what your parents did is wrong, but it's important to remember that there really isn't a right or wrong answer, unless what the parents' do is for selfish reasons.
lemurian
Well-known member
The only thing I have to contribute to this thread is that it is actually illegal in some states to abort past the second trimester for any reason that doesn't involve the mother's life, however in other states doctors can be sued for not telling their prenatal patients that their child could have a problem, because it is their "right" to terminate the pregnancy. I'd be interested to know what laws are in other countries regarding this matter.
Also, I had no idea whatsoever about these "designer" babies... I become infuriated over mothers who don't take their folic acid, haha! I have no words for how utterly sick it is to WANT your child to be deaf or otherwise disabled. Just... man.
Also, I had no idea whatsoever about these "designer" babies... I become infuriated over mothers who don't take their folic acid, haha! I have no words for how utterly sick it is to WANT your child to be deaf or otherwise disabled. Just... man.
kradge79
Well-known member
Let me explain my point of view...my sister has been part of my daily existence for the past 21 years, meaning I've had someone in my life with Down Syndrome since I was 6 years old. This is more then an article on msnbc to me. She is my only sibling and I love her as much as anyone loves their sibling. I fight for her just like anyone would fight for their sibling if they needed them to. She is different then a "normal" sibling, but I've learned invaluable lessons from her and the many people I have met in dealing with her needs. I've learned that people bring different things to the table no matter how big or small. I've learned that everyone's cup is different, not bigger or smaller, just different. I can say the same thing about my husband or my best friend as I can about my sister.
This is something I am passionate about, just like you may have things you are passionate about. So to be honest, no, I'm not going to change my opinion or suddenly see things differently. I'm bringing a different side of the discussion to the table, and that's all.
This is something I am passionate about, just like you may have things you are passionate about. So to be honest, no, I'm not going to change my opinion or suddenly see things differently. I'm bringing a different side of the discussion to the table, and that's all.
user79
Well-known member
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Thing is, the pro-choice movement is based exactly on that: choice. And not only 1 choice, but many. There are many reasons why women choose to abort a pregnancy, and any reason is valid under the pro-choice movement. It's up to each woman to choose what is ok for her, and if she chooses not to have a baby who has downs or MS or something like that, she can.
I don't think it's up to anyone to decide which choice is "less moral" than another.
| Originally Posted by XsMom21
When I say I'm pro-choice, I mean that it's a woman's decision. But, in my beliefs, terminating a pregnancy because you are a victim of rape, or can in no way provide a good life for the child is different than terminating a pregnancy because of a defect. All of what I said are just my beliefs and I was just voicing my opinion. I did not mean to offend anyone by my statements, but your statement did disturb me. |
Thing is, the pro-choice movement is based exactly on that: choice. And not only 1 choice, but many. There are many reasons why women choose to abort a pregnancy, and any reason is valid under the pro-choice movement. It's up to each woman to choose what is ok for her, and if she chooses not to have a baby who has downs or MS or something like that, she can.
I don't think it's up to anyone to decide which choice is "less moral" than another.
glamdoll
Well-known member
wow this is really a hard topic because I have a healthy son who I thank God for. I had a cousin who had a birth defect. They were never sure what caused it because it doesnt run in our family or in my uncles family. my aunt was in her mid thirties when she had him
he lived to be 9 years old and my aunt is in her 40s he couldnt walk talk or anything.
She told me that she always prayed to God that if death was to come to them, to take him first because she didnt want to leave him behind. Not only because no one would take care of him how she did, no one knew how or wanted to.
It was really hard. And thou he did have happy moments in his life,
he would smile and laugh and everything, you can never compare the life he had to any normal persons because you just cant.
any one with a disability can be happy and fufilled but its just never the same.
Humans are not equal.
We are NOT born equal. Ever.
its sad but really its true.
he lived to be 9 years old and my aunt is in her 40s he couldnt walk talk or anything.
She told me that she always prayed to God that if death was to come to them, to take him first because she didnt want to leave him behind. Not only because no one would take care of him how she did, no one knew how or wanted to.
It was really hard. And thou he did have happy moments in his life,
he would smile and laugh and everything, you can never compare the life he had to any normal persons because you just cant.
any one with a disability can be happy and fufilled but its just never the same.
Humans are not equal.
We are NOT born equal. Ever.
its sad but really its true.
