White House Defines Contraception as Abortion?

[MxAxC-_ATTACK]

Quote:

Originally Posted by frocher It comes from Women's E News. Women's eNews | News for Women | Resources for Journalists

Thank you, I wanted to send it to my boyfriend but If I showed him specktra he would be like " ok.... no" haha .

 

[frocher]

Quote:

Originally Posted by TDoll I never thought of comparing birth control to viagra...lol. The ACTUAL PROPOSAL which this article is commenting about, it's not about "taking away a woman's power over her own body" or getting rid of birth control, emergency contraception, or info. on abortion clinics. Re-read the first sentence of the post. If the proposal goes through (which I strongly doubt...) then these things will not be available for free at family planning clinics, such as Planned Parenthood. The proposal is about limiting the availability of this type of contraception/information at planned parenthood/family planning clinics. This has actually been an issue for a while and has been talked about for a looong time. It's just coming up before the election. Birth control as we know it will not change. It will still be just as available at pharmacies as it is today if this went through. However, this information would not be given to girls as readily as it is today at family planning clinics. Call me crazy, but I don't think the morning after pill or info on abortion/abortion clinics should be available for free at these types of family planning centers. Regular birth control for free is one thing, but not those. I think that those are serious things that should be discussed with your doctor and not rushed out to get for free. Pharmacies will provide the morning after pill, but they consent your doctor first. I mean, damn. They aren't giving Viagra away for free.

If this is passed, it will define the morning after pill as abortion. Since you aren't even technically pregnant at that point that is troubling to me. Also, the fact that this will affect free/reduced fee clinics like Planned Parenthood is worrying to me. Young women, who need guidance, and not to be judged, the most and economically disadvantaged women will be the ones suffering.

Abortion clinic and morning after pill info should absolutely be available at planned parenthood. It's about offering all the choices and letting women decide for themselves. I wouldn't call you crazy, but I don't think you should be able to decide what information should or should not be available at family planning clinics..

 

[purrtykitty]

But, the Supreme Court as of right now has determined that a state does not have the right to interfere with a woman's fundamental right of privacy (of which abortion and the morning-after pill fall within) before the second trimester (and even after that, states cannot unduly burden abortions, as of right now, of course). So, even if they pass this bill, it would also have to pass the scrutiny of the Supreme Court. Even as conservative as this Court is, I just don't see this bill standing up to the strict scrutiny that the Court will be required to review it under in order for it to pass Constitutionally.

 

[frocher]

Quote:

Originally Posted by purrtykitty But, the Supreme Court as of right now has determined that a state does not have the right to interfere with a woman's fundamental right of privacy (of which abortion and the morning-after pill fall within) before the second trimester (and even after that, states cannot unduly burden abortions, as of right now, of course). So, even if they pass this bill, it would also have to pass the scrutiny of the Supreme Court. Even as conservative as this Court is, I just don't see this bill standing up to the strict scrutiny that the Court will be required to review it under in order for it to pass Constitutionally.

I hope it doesn't pass. However it has been proposed, and there is a possibility that it will pass.

 

[animecute]

I'm so outdated in American politics (since I don't live there). Well as long as the election is over before Bush can do anything about it, it should be ok I think. After all it is Bush's proposal. I hope the new president won't take the idea.

 

[Simply Elegant]

Limiting the information of emergency contraception in my opinion just creates more ignorance. I think this information should stay available especially to the most vulnerable of people in these clinics. Not talking about it won't cause less pregnancies, less people to have sex etc. Just because someone knows about it and has access to it does not mean that she'll actually use it.

 

[Lapis]

Quote:

The proposed rule defines abortion as "any of the various procedures--including the prescription, dispensing and administration of any drug or the performance of any procedure or any other action--that results in the termination of the life of a human being in utero between conception and natural birth, whether before or after implantation."

I think they are going after the morning pill but the wording is such that with the correct judicial, legislative and executive powers in place they could go after the normal pill.
Either way I'd like the gov to keep their hands out of my uterus!!

This is also why my kids hold dual citizenship, so they can have some options if this country goes all fundy.

From personal experience I'd like pharmacist who refuse to give certain meds to be tried in a court of law! I had one try to refuse me meds after my period was screwy after a miscarriage, my husband came in and she got a look and just gave me the meds.

 

[TDoll]

Quote:

Originally Posted by frocher If this is passed, it will define the morning after pill as abortion. Since you aren't even technically pregnant at that point that is troubling to me. Also, the fact that this will affect free/reduced fee clinics like Planned Parenthood is worrying to me. Young women, who need guidance, and not to be judged, the most and economically disadvantaged women will be the ones suffering. Abortion clinic and morning after pill info should absolutely be available at planned parenthood. It's about offering all the choices and letting women decide for themselves. I wouldn't call you crazy, but I don't think you should be able to decide what information should or should not be available at family planning clinics..

When you posted this, you should have known that it would evoke SEVERAL different points of view. You are entitled to your opinions as am I.

Your body is most certainly heading towards becoming "technically" pregnant at that time, or else you would not need the morning after pill. I'M NOT AGAINST THAT PILL IN ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM. It's just VERY different than regular bc pills. Regualar bc pills keep you from ovulating at all. It doesn't actually "terminate" the natural process of pregnancy which is most certainly occurring when you take the morning after pill. I think that pill should definitely be available to women, HOWEVER, **speaking from personal experience** I have known girls who have gone to these clinics and have gone to get abortions without their parents knowing and have gotten other adults to sign off for it. Only to be sent home to start hemhorraging and suffer from horrible health problems and have to undergo several surgical procedures and suffer from miscarriages now that she's ready for children. I'm not against abortion, I'm just saying that a lot of young girls that don't have all the facts and info they need to make a good decision go wherever they can to get it done for the cheapest amount. I wouldn't wish what she's gone through on anyone.

I think Family Planning centers and clinics are WONDERFUL. I think it is WONDERFUL that young girls and women who are not fortunate to have the ability to provide birth control for themselves are able to go to a place and have it readily available. HOWEVER, I am not thrilled about these places providing not the best free info on the morning after pill or abortions to girls who are uninformed. Not all of these centers are the wonderful places they are made out to be, however, some of them are great. It's just a touchy subject and I 100% believe in a woman's right to choose. I really hope it doesn't go through either, I was just stating my opinions on how I felt about morning after pills and abortion info being so readily available at family planning clinics..NOT all together and stating that the proposal is speaking about the morning after pill and not all bc in general.

Info on these topics is great...and SHOULD be provided at family planning clinics...It's just scary to think of all the young girls going there getting it that are so very young and unable to make big decisions like that on their own without family support but I guess it happens everyday. I obviously never meant that info on these things should not be provided at a place that SHOULD provide good info. It's just the quality of information and how easily the morning after pill and abortions themselves are attained by such young girls is scary.

There are obviously several sides or ways you could look at this proposal. You are entitled to your opinion, as am I. And I CERTAINLY would hope you weren't calling me crazy. I'm not taking the road of trying to convince anyone of anything or arguing with anyone because we are all free to state our opinions.

 

[frocher]

Quote:

Originally Posted by TDoll When you posted this, you should have known that it would evoke SEVERAL different points of view. You are entitled to your opinions as am I. Your body is most certainly heading towards becoming "technically" pregnant at that time, or else you would not need the morning after pill. I'M NOT AGAINST THAT PILL IN ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM. It's just VERY different than regular bc pills. Regualar bc pills keep you from ovulating at all. It doesn't actually "terminate" the natural process of pregnancy which is most certainly occurring when you take the morning after pill. I think that pill should definitely be available to women, HOWEVER, **speaking from personal experience** I have known girls who have gone to these clinics and have gone to get abortions without their parents knowing and have gotten other adults to sign off for it. Only to be sent home to start hemhorraging and suffer from horrible health problems and have to undergo several surgical procedures and suffer from miscarriages now that she's ready for children. I'm not against abortion, I'm just saying that a lot of young girls that don't have all the facts and info they need to make a good decision go wherever they can to get it done for the cheapest amount. I wouldn't wish what she's gone through on anyone. I think Family Planning centers and clinics are WONDERFUL. I think it is WONDERFUL that young girls and women who are not fortunate to have the ability to provide birth control for themselves are able to go to a place and have it readily available. HOWEVER, I am not thrilled about these places providing not the best free info on the morning after pill or abortions to girls who are uninformed. Not all of these centers are the wonderful places they are made out to be, however, some of them are great. It's just a touchy subject and I 100% believe in a woman's right to choose. I really hope it doesn't go through either, I was just stating my opinions on how I felt about morning after pills and abortion info being so readily available at family planning clinics..NOT all together and stating that the proposal is speaking about the morning after pill and not all bc in general. Info on these topics is great...and SHOULD be provided at family planning clinics...It's just scary to think of all the young girls going there getting it that are so very young and unable to make big decisions like that on their own without family support but I guess it happens everyday. I obviously never meant that info on these things should not be provided at a place that SHOULD provide good info. It's just the quality of information and how easily the morning after pill and abortions themselves are attained by such young girls is scary. There are obviously several sides or ways you could look at this proposal. You are entitled to your opinion, as am I. And I CERTAINLY would hope you weren't calling me crazy. I'm not taking the road of trying to convince anyone of anything or arguing with anyone because we are all free to state our opinions.

I agree, you are entitled to your opinion. For the record you brought up the crazy, not me. I said I wouldn't call you that, I was responding to your original post. You said that certain info shouldn't be available in those clinics, I disagreed. Honestly, I don't have a problem with you disagreeing with me, you are the one that seems touchy on the subject, not me.

I also disagree about heading toward being technically pregnant. If the egg doesn't firmly implant itself, no pregnancy. Fertilized eggs are flushed from womens systems all the time, both naturally and by chemical means.

 

[TDoll]

Quote:

Originally Posted by frocher I agree, you are entitled to your opinion. For the record you brought up the crazy, not me. I said I wouldn't call you that, I was responding to your original post. You said that certain info shouldn't be available in those clinics, I disagreed. Honestly, I don't have a problem with you disagreeing with me, you are the one that seems touchy on the subject, not me. I also disagree about heading toward being technically pregnant. If the egg doesn't firmly implant itself, no pregnancy. Fertilized eggs are flushed from womens systems all the time, both naturally and by chemical means.

We just don't see quite eye to eye on this, which is ok. Doesn't make me touchy....nor does it, you. You brought up some really good points. Just because my opinion differs from yours or the majority of people posting on this particular thread, that doesn't make me touchy. There are lots of people who posted on this that made some bold statements, but thats ok. They're not doing anything wrong and neither am I. This is a forum after all.

Lol...About the crazy thing...I was being sarcastic, responding to you. No worries! I'm seeing its a waste of time (surprise) to state my opinions on this topic any further. A discussion is one thing, but I hate going back and forth with something when our minds are made up and I respect the fact that we are both entitled to our opinions. I respect your opinions as well as everyone else's on here.

I thought this was posted to get our different opinions and takes on it. And for you, as well to state yours. Not to convince others that their opinions are wrong. The only reason I first quoted someone in this thread and responded to them was for me to try and clear up what the actual proposal was about...not to tell them they were wrong or to convince them that they were wrong.

 

[Beauty Mark]

Quote:

Call me crazy, but I don't think the morning after pill or info on abortion/abortion clinics should be available for free at these types of family planning centers. Regular birth control for free is one thing, but not those. I think that those are serious things that should be discussed with your doctor and not rushed out to get for free. Pharmacies will provide the morning after pill, but they consent your doctor first.

I've never had to use the morning after pill or have had an abortion, but free doesn't have to mean uninformed choices. If you use Planned Parenthood, I hope that they discuss very thoroughly what those things do to your body. I hope they discuss what birth control in all its forms does to your body and how it isn't 100% perfect.


Quote:

I think Family Planning centers and clinics are WONDERFUL. I think it is WONDERFUL that young girls and women who are not fortunate to have the ability to provide birth control for themselves are able to go to a place and have it readily available. HOWEVER, I am not thrilled about these places providing not the best free info on the morning after pill or abortions to girls who are uninformed. Not all of these centers are the wonderful places they are made out to be, however, some of them are great. It's just a touchy subject and I 100% believe in a woman's right to choose. I really hope it doesn't go through either, I was just stating my opinions on how I felt about morning after pills and abortion info being so readily available at family planning clinics..NOT all together and stating that the proposal is speaking about the morning after pill and not all bc in general. Info on these topics is great...and SHOULD be provided at family planning clinics...It's just scary to think of all the young girls going there getting it that are so very young and unable to make big decisions like that on their own without family support but I guess it happens everyday. I obviously never meant that info on these things should not be provided at a place that SHOULD provide good info. It's just the quality of information and how easily the morning after pill and abortions themselves are attained by such young girls is scary.

I also don't believe that ignorance can serve any good for anyone. I think the problem is the kind of information that flows through these places. We shouldn't withhold information but demand that good info is passed through the people who work there.

It's very sad that young girls need to make these decisions. It's sad that they aren't close enough to their families to discuss those issues; I know I'm not. I'm not sure how or if that'll ever change. I think factual information needs to be passed on to everyone, regardless of how old you are.

 

[xxManBeaterxx]

Do we have to go through this all over again!? Women have been getting abortions since early human exsistance. What happens when you remove birth control options to women? Illegal street abortions, hangers, everything the works, more infections more deaths, women are still going to do it anyway. Raising an unwanted child, we all know how shitty that feels to be the kid, they may grow up to be criminals, killers, emotionally unstable. It's our life our body our choice, leave us alone.

p.s. yes i agree it is killing a human life in the making, yes we have sex and we know the consequences, do poor people still have sex... yes, do teens still have sex.. yes.. is adoption an option.. of course.. but some women choose not to because of personal reasons. But i still think its no ones elses choice but mines.

 

[TDoll]

Quote:

Originally Posted by xxManBeaterxx Do we have to go through this all over again!? Women have been getting abortions since early human exsistance. What happens when you remove birth control options to women? Illegal street abortions, hangers, everything the works, more infections more deaths, women are still going to do it anyway. Raising an unwanted child, we all know how shitty that feels to be the kid, they may grow up to be criminals, killers, emotionally unstable. It's our life our body our choice, leave us alone. p.s. yes i agree it is killing a human life in the making, yes we have sex and we know the consequences, do poor people still have sex... yes, do teens still have sex.. yes.. is adoption an option.. of course.. but some women choose not to because of personal reasons. But i still think its no ones elses choice but mines.

I agree. I think women should have options and receive good information about them and be able to receive the morning after pill or be able to seek out an abortion from a quality center, if they so choose...JUST NOT FROM SHADY PLACES! That's all I'm saying!!

I'll say it again... I 100% believe in a woman's right to choose. (frocher, if you quote me this time, leave that part bold. thanks. I just don't want anyone to misinterpret what I'm saying.

)

 

[xxManBeaterxx]

I am a pharmacy student, I havent done my internship yet but if a woman comes up to me and asks for the morning after pill, i cannot deny her her rights. I wont judge her or call her nasty names. I will in every way try to educate her more, and consult her and offer her the best medical advice i can.

I dont see anything wrong with the morning after pill. Just for a little info incase some readers dont know. Even if you are on regular birth control and lets say your a little worried about getting pregnant because you missed a pill or two, you can still take the morning after pill. It doesnt induce abortion, its only supposed to delay the egg release even further and if the egg is already released it will try to prevent fertilization or implantation. But once the egg is implanted this pill will NOT affect pregnancy, it will NOT induce abortion, once the egg is implanted it is too late, and this is a problem because..? The morning afterpill has some very harsh chemicals, and you dont want to be taking this monthly since it could cause much harm to your body. Maybe its time for our government to get educated or someone please explain to me how this is abortion??? because birth control prevents an egg from release and the morning after pill also delays it, whats the difference? No zygote/embryo no baby no abortion..

 

[frocher]

Double post.

 

[frocher]

Quote:

Originally Posted by TDoll I agree. I think women should have options and receive good information about them and be able to receive the morning after pill or be able to seek out an abortion from a quality center, if they so choose...JUST NOT FROM SHADY PLACES! That's all I'm saying!! I'll say it again... I 100% believe in a woman's right to choose. (frocher, if you quote me this time, leave that part bold. thanks. I just don't want anyone to misinterpret what I'm saying. )

Whenever I quoted you I left your posts as you wrote them, the only time I changed any of them is to bold the part where you mentioned "call me crazy" because you seemed offended. No one is trying to change your mind.

Again, I am going to respectfully disagree, I don't think that places like Planned Parenthood are shady places. In my experience, I worked with them as a grad student, if they feel they are not qualified to perform certain procedures (such as abortion), they will direct the patients to appropriate venues. They sit down and explain the morning after pill in great detail, they don't just prescribe things because people walk in and ask. They follow all the appropriate procedures.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TDoll We just don't see quite eye to eye on this, which is ok. Doesn't make me touchy....nor does it, you. You brought up some really good points. Just because my opinion differs from yours or the majority of people posting on this particular thread, that doesn't make me touchy. There are lots of people who posted on this that made some bold statements, but thats ok. They're not doing anything wrong and neither am I. This is a forum after all. Lol...About the crazy thing...I was being sarcastic, responding to you. No worries! I'm seeing its a waste of time (surprise) to state my opinions on this topic any further. A discussion is one thing, but I hate going back and forth with something when our minds are made up and I respect the fact that we are both entitled to our opinions. I respect your opinions as well as everyone else's on here. I thought this was posted to get our different opinions and takes on it. And for you, as well to state yours. Not to convince others that their opinions are wrong. The only reason I first quoted someone in this thread and responded to them was for me to try and clear up what the actual proposal was about...not to tell them they were wrong or to convince them that they were wrong.

Again, the only reason I mentioned "touchy" is because you did. This is the internet, and it is easy to misinterpret tone. I respect your opinions as well. This is a discussion. We just don't agree.

 

[user79]

Quote:

Originally Posted by TDoll Your body is most certainly heading towards becoming "technically" pregnant at that time, or else you would not need the morning after pill. [/b]

Technically, that's not really right. The morning after pill can be taken I think up to 72 hours or something after having intercourse, but it doesn't mean that your body is necessarily on the way to becoming pregnant. You might not get pregnant at all even without the pill, but it's leaving it up to chance. I think there's a big difference between the morning after pill and abortion and can't really be compared. An abortion is when you are definitely, 100% pregnant, the morning after pill is before you maybe or maybe not even become pregant.

BTW, the morning after pill is in some cases just a strong dosage of the normal birth control pill. Before Plan B became prevalent, I had to take it once because the condom broke, and my doctor just gave me 6 normal birth control pills to take, spaced out over a 24 hour period. It made me horribly nauseous, but it was just a normal pill, in a stronger dosage.

I def think the morning after pill should be readily available at clinics or pharmacies, either free or at a low cost. I took Plan B once as well and it wasn't very expensive anyway, and I could just get it at the pharmacy without a prescription. I think I paid like $15 or $20 for it. I def think this is essential for women to be in control of their reproductive functions. I realize that you said you also are ok with the morning after pill, but I just don't think this should be lumped together with abortion because they are very different. It's like when you get a deep cut from something rusty, and you go to get a Tetanus booster shoot to prevent a dangerous infection, that's how I think of it.

 

[redambition]

the wording of the proposal does worry me. it's very open to interpretation about what could be considered "abortion".

 

[rbella]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MissChievous Technically, that's not really right. The morning after pill can be taken I think up to 72 hours or something after having intercourse, but it doesn't mean that your body is necessarily on the way to becoming pregnant. You might not get pregnant at all even without the pill, but it's leaving it up to chance. I think there's a big difference between the morning after pill and abortion and can't really be compared. An abortion is when you are definitely, 100% pregnant, the morning after pill is before you maybe or maybe not even become pregant. BTW, the morning after pill is in some cases just a strong dosage of the normal birth control pill. Before Plan B became prevalent, I had to take it once because the condom broke, and my doctor just gave me 6 normal birth control pills to take, spaced out over a 24 hour period. It made me horribly nauseous, but it was just a normal pill, in a stronger dosage. I def think the morning after pill should be readily available at clinics or pharmacies, either free or at a low cost. I took Plan B once as well and it wasn't very expensive anyway, and I could just get it at the pharmacy without a prescription. I think I paid like $15 or $20 for it. I def think this is essential for women to be in control of their reproductive functions. I realize that you said you also are ok with the morning after pill, but I just don't think this should be lumped together with abortion because they are very different. It's like when you get a deep cut from something rusty, and you go to get a Tetanus booster shoot to prevent a dangerous infection, that's how I think of it.

I agree with your entire post here. I also believe that you have a longer time period to take it after intercourse and from what I remember learning in school, sperm can live for 2 days inside of a woman. That means that it has 2 days to get a hold of your egg which is only alive for 1 day. That is why they decided on 72 hours. Because of that, I also agree that you are not necessarily on your way to becoming pregnant.

Just for clarification, I'm stating the above paragraph strictly from memory (what I learned in school) and am totally admitting that my "facts" could be off and am completely open to criticism if I am incorrect.

MissChievious, I also had to take a large dose of BC pills once when I had a condom mishap. Horrible experience. I've never been more sick!!

 

[*Stargazer*]

Quote:

Originally Posted by rbella from what I remember learning in school, sperm can live for 2 days inside of a woman. That means that it has 2 days to get a hold of your egg which is only alive for 1 day.

Sperm can live for 5 days in cervical mucus.