WMD's have been found

[leppy]

Also, I chose this thread because it was a recent example of people demeaning others with the opposing view, plain and simple. What brought my attention to it was the controversy of that, not the issue being discussed.

Yes I have weighed in with some of my own thoughts on the matter, but regardless of who I agree with (which is actually no one thus far) I would object to argument style and tactics being used. If you don't respect me as a result, I won't lose any sleep over it.

 

[Juneplum]

Quote:

Originally Posted by youbeabitch Then you know you may as well just go ahead and ban me because it seems to me, from my perspective that you only got involved because we're saying things you don't like. The problem was just as bad in about 3 or 4 other threads but you chose this one. It baffles me. But go ahead ban me. It won't stop me from sticking up for what's right in my mind, and if others want to give me their ideas, give me proof I'll give it consideration.

no need to worry about being banned for stating your point of view at all! we encourage healthy discussion here as long as no one starts flaming or personally attacking the other! i can see both sides of this discussion and agree with a little of what each side has to say.. oh, and thanks for the vote of confidence

 

[Hawkeye]

June-
I wouldn't say it if I didn't mean it

I mean you and janice have shown me time and time again your fair and your decisions seriously always have given me confidence. Thank you for not banning me on the spot and I thank you also for understanding my point of view on this particular matter of the thread.

 

[Janice]

Just a little note - I encourage the growth of this forum and respect all parties participating - not because of the issues being discussed, but because all who participate are so confident in their beliefs that they can defend them with passion and honor.

youbeabitch - I read and re-read the post by Adrienne which you took concern to carefully, I support her stance with regard to this forum and the guidelines she was laying down informally in her post. I want to give every member a chance to express their personal belief on issues discussed here, and that includes Staff Members. As outlined in the bulletin board, each members views are their own and are not endorsed by Specktra.Net. I'm not pointing this out for any other reason than I want you to be confident that a Staff members personal opinion is just that and you can continue to express yourself without concern -but with consideration for our request that we keep discussion about the issue and open minded.

We (the administration) have been watching these threads carefully as there can exist a thin line between debate and fanaticism. We want to ensure that everyone continues feeling comfortable expressing themselves. Which is why I have not weighed in in an administrative capacity as of yet because I don't want those participating in this forum to feel it's heavily moderated. It's not, it's just happens to be my "baby" (figurative).

 

[Shimmer]

*shrug*

These lines of thought aren't worth the headache they bring about for me.
As such, I'll likely be staying out of these threads here on out. Y'all have fun. It's not the thread of banning, nor of a huge hammer dropping that makes me not want to come in here (though that did amuse me a bit) but the sheer fact that it's like beating my head against a brick wall because points are repeatedly ignored, denied, and fall upon deaf ears time and again.

Now.
Regarding personal attacks, I'll state that it's good, great even, that the site doesn't condone them. I do ask, however, where you were, Leppy, when I, and my immediate family, as well as extended and my best friends, were being called child killers and rapists due to our chosen vocation. I considered that a personal attack on a very deep level, and not one I appreciated. Yes, I do, and will continue to, dismiss quandolak's points of view, based on the fact(s) that they are ill-conceived, poorly presented, and inflammatory on a level that is beyond immature. There was no administrative intercession then, nor did I expect any.
The moderating staff of this site do an excellent job of maintaining it, and in the name of continuing to enjoy the site, I'm going to respectfully walk away from this mess.

 

[Hawkeye]

Janice-
As I said before I do trust you and will do whatever you suggest

I think I have to agree with shimmer, its more of the placement than anything. I really would not have as big of a problem if it were a sticky (as I saw by you!) or if it were in every thread that were of high emotions etc. Not just this thread. and I have to agree with shimmer, this isn't worth the headaches!

 

[leppy]

shimmer: Simple answer, I wasn't here. I have been MIA from the site and all my duties for a while due to my own personal life mess. You could have complained to a mod or admin though, and I'm sure they would have intervened.

No one likes to be called out on inappropriate behaviour, I'm no exception, and if you find political topics too frustrating that is totally understandable, I myself have had more than one moment where I wanted to reach through the screen and slap someone.

I stand by my post regardless of where I chose to put it, seems like people are nitpicking because I said something they didn't want to hear.

 

[Shimmer]

edit:
Never mind. Roger that.

 

[Jessica]

Whew! It sounds like many of us are passionate about our political beliefs! I think that it's great that here in the US we are able to express ourselves freely, debate openly and not be persecuted for our opinions. I would love to see that continue here on Specktra. Sometimes it's hard to take a step back and look at a particular statement and not defame the individual who wrote/said it. We can take statements and give our counter-arguements without attacking the author. Thank you ladies and gents for professing your strong beliefs and opinions while maintaining respect and dignity for each other and ourselves. Yes, I too am a mod, but it is NOT my reccomendation that any action be taken against any of the authors of this thread. I am actually very proud that we have such passionate, eloquent, and well educated individuals here at Specktra. My only request is that we we give the utmost respect to each other regardless of our viewpoint or opinion.

 

[Wattage]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jessica Whew! It sounds like many of us are passionate about our political beliefs! I think that it's great that here in the US we are able to express ourselves freely, debate openly and not be persecuted for our opinions. I would love to see that continue here on Specktra. Sometimes it's hard to take a step back and look at a particular statement and not defame the individual who wrote/said it. We can take statements and give our counter-arguements without attacking the author. Thank you ladies and gents for professing your strong beliefs and opinions while maintaining respect and dignity for each other and ourselves. Yes, I too am a mod, but it is NOT my reccomendation that any action be taken against any of the authors of this thread. I am actually very proud that we have such passionate, eloquent, and well educated individuals here at Specktra. My only request is that we we give the utmost respect to each other regardless of our viewpoint or opinion.

I second that notion!!

 

[quandolak]

..............

 

[Lalli]

Quote:

Originally Posted by shimmer . Now. Regarding personal attacks, I'll state that it's good, great even, that the site doesn't condone them. I do ask, however, where you were, Leppy, when I, and my immediate family, as well as extended and my best friends, were being called child killers and rapists due to our chosen vocation. I considered that a personal attack on a very deep level, and not one I appreciated. Yes, I do, and will continue to, dismiss quandolak's points of view, based on the fact(s) that they are ill-conceived, poorly presented, and inflammatory on a level that is beyond immature. There was no administrative intercession then, nor did I expect any.

*sigh* no one attacked YOU or called YOUR family rapists or child killers.

 

[Nicoletta]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lalli *sigh* no one attacked YOU or called YOUR family rapists or child killers.

Actually, yes they were. In the Islam thread.

 

[Lalli]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nicoletta Actually, yes they were. In the Islam thread.

read it carefully and you will see no one aimed it directly at her.

 

[NtheSticks]

Pardon me, Lalli and a couple of others, but if you make the remark - with the broad brush - that soldiers and/or marines are all rapists and baby killers, and *I* am a soldier, then guess what?

You are calling *me* a rapist and baby killer. That is personal.

If you make that broadbrush stroke, you are calling people near and dear to me rapists and babykillers. I take offense to that.

Does all things USofA do be right? No. But someone earlier in this thread said we aren't the biggest contributer - I call BS on that.

Because last time I looked, ANYTIME there is a disaster anywhere in the world, the people of the USofA are there in response. Donating water, food, money for both. Donating man hours in response to earthquakes and tidal waves in addition to the food.

Did you know that the Red Cross first responders is not a paid position, but a volunteer one?

So....While I doubt sincerely anyone is going to change their position, immaturity shows in the nature of the arguments being presented.

Political hack? I'm one of the most politically incorrect people you ever want to come across. I believe far too many people in this country are so used to being fed they haven't a clue as to how to care for their own body and responsibilities. The way people didn't leave when thoroughly adequate warning given by the hurricane is a good example. "help me, I'm too <insert whatever adj you wish to use here> to get my family and self out of harm's way" Never mind the fact that a great many have two good feet to do some walking with.

Tsunami didn't quite give as much warning, but there was warning it was coming. Tornadoes are SUDDEN - and frequently deadly - but it's not a person's fault - not even Bush.

 

[quandolak]

..........

 

[koolkatz]

Caveat: I've only skimmed the entire post. I'm glad the tone has mostly been sane and non-attacking though! I read that the weapons were from the first Bush era - the Iraq wars in the 80s/early 90s.

One thing that's been bugging me for a while: Why is it the rest of the world had a very strong feeling that the rationale for war was mostly rhetoric and that the media info was misleading? Yet, everyone acts so surprised now that the intelligence was faulty. Most people OUTSIDE of the US said that from the very beginning...

 

[Lalli]

Before you start lecturing me i suggest you go back and re-read the posts. no one said ALL soldiers are rapists baby killers. there have been cases where soldiers have been involved in these activites. if you cant diffrentiate between a comment about minorities rather than a whole then get offended as much as you like. I have family who are in the forces also so dont give me that crap that you get offended and i didnt make a remark with "the broad brush"

Quote:

Originally Posted by NtheSticks Pardon me, Lalli and a couple of others, but if you make the remark - with the broad brush - that soldiers and/or marines are all rapists and baby killers, and *I* am a soldier, then guess what? You are calling *me* a rapist and baby killer. That is personal.

 

[Shimmer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lalli Before you start lecturing me i suggest you go back and re-read the posts. no one said ALL soldiers are rapists baby killers. there have been cases where soldiers have been involved in these activites. if you cant diffrentiate between a comment about minorities rather than a whole then get offended as much as you like. I have family who are in the forces also so dont give me that crap that you get offended and i didnt make a remark with "the broad brush"

And yet, when a list was given it was completely derided and ignored and the comment was made "Two out of thousands" then it was made "OK, eight or nine out of thousands that doesn't mean the rest aren't".

Lecturing? Hardly, but again, it's a point of being called down on something you've said or done, to the point that many other people saw and read it, and you aren't comfortable with it.
You made a sweeping generalization, and then defended the generalizatin, repeatedly. Now, you're being reminded of said generalization and you're uncomfortable.
Quote:

Originally Posted by lalli what about all these so called american soldiers raping and killing innocent women.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lalli ur trying to tell me a man is at "war" and wants to satisfy his sexual needs but cnt do so with men, you need to open you eyes love. it happens, whether you like it or not. you cant speak for the VAST majority of soldiers can you? i know for a fact life for women is hard there but americans arent making it easier are they.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lalli can you justify guantanamo bay, raping of innocent women, killing of children and AMERICAN soliders torturing innocent civilians

Quote:

Originally Posted by shimmer OK. Sgt. Robert Allen Richardson. Never laid hands on a woman while touring Iraq. Never intentionally harmed a child. SSG Gregory Noble Giles. Never laid hands on a woman or child while touring Iraq. Never harmed, intentionally, either woman or child while touring Iraq. There are two.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lalli two out of how many thousands out there

Quote:

Originally Posted by lalli u stated the names of 2 soldiers WHO DONT ENGAGE in such activity and i said they are two of thousands out there, doesnt mean ALL of them are angles as the 2 you quoted

(let me add here that I don't think any of them are 'angles'.)
Quote:

Originally Posted by lalli i dont need to educate myself, what you need to do is stop living the american dream and see that EVERYONE has flaws

I'm sure I could find more references, but...I have things to do.

 

[Lalli]

and i have the right to say what i want