Working as an MUA?
- Thread starter pinkvanilla
- Start date
I <3 MakeUp
Member
Quote:
I'd already done a Cert II back in 2000 prior to doing my Cert IV last year, but I was still majorly scared that I would be crap (I hadn't done anything with the Cert II).
Before I put down my deposit for the course, I actually did makeup on family/friends to see whether I thought I had some potential to do well in the course, and they loved what i did, and i thought it wasn't too bad - so i just went for it!!
Originally Posted by CatsMeow
Thanks for this interesting thread discussion. 
I am going to do a Cert II in July this year with the intention of doing bridal/occasion makeup work on a part time basis afterwards (in addition to my fulltime job). I've never considered being a MUA fulltime - competition is high in creative industries, so one needs to be realistic I guess. Positive and optimistic, but realistic as well!
The problem is, how does someone know whether they have talent if they don't invest in some training to reach their potential??? It's a catch-22. Lara you raised a very important point - some people spend big on training and then come out of it realising that they don't have the natural ability to do it well, and the only benefit of the course is that they can do their own makeup well. Then there's the X-Factor - a MUA has to have confidence in their ability and be able to listen to what their client wants, or else it'll just end in tears and/or tantrums. Hmm... definitely food for thought. Worse case scenario - I have an expensive hobby. heheh. Oh wait, I have that already!
|
I'd already done a Cert II back in 2000 prior to doing my Cert IV last year, but I was still majorly scared that I would be crap (I hadn't done anything with the Cert II).
Before I put down my deposit for the course, I actually did makeup on family/friends to see whether I thought I had some potential to do well in the course, and they loved what i did, and i thought it wasn't too bad - so i just went for it!!
CatsMeow
Well-known member
Quote:
Thanks cookie!
But I specialise in a different medium...
- "pen to paper" is a completely different ball game to "makeup to face"! heheh
Hopefully it translates tho... dunno.
I <3 MakeUp - yep, I'm just going to go for it too! Worse case scenario, I come out of it knowing how to make myself look better! heheh
| Originally Posted by MrsMay
^^ Ali - I've seen your artwork before, you definately have artistic talent which I'm sure will translate into makeup! |
Thanks cookie!
But I specialise in a different medium...
- "pen to paper" is a completely different ball game to "makeup to face"! heheh
Hopefully it translates tho... dunno.
I <3 MakeUp - yep, I'm just going to go for it too! Worse case scenario, I come out of it knowing how to make myself look better! heheh
pinkvanilla
Well-known member
There are definitely some good points being raised
How much of it is natural ability though? I'm not much of an artist when it comes to pen and paper, but I love playing with makeup, and learning about it. Surely alot of it is learning about technique and practice makes perfect, yeah?
How much of it is natural ability though? I'm not much of an artist when it comes to pen and paper, but I love playing with makeup, and learning about it. Surely alot of it is learning about technique and practice makes perfect, yeah?
rockin26
Well-known member
I can't draw at all really, stick figures are about as good as I get! But, I'm really finding my feet with makeup. It's definately a challenge putting makeup on other peoples faces but with continued practice it's all taking shape and getting better and better.
I say bugger it, if it's something you want then go for it. If some of the biggest names in the industry or any industry for that matter didn't just have a crack then they wouldn't have been where they are now. What's the worst that can happen? You'll have a big makeup collection that cost heaps?? Um we're already headed that way anyway!
I say bugger it, if it's something you want then go for it. If some of the biggest names in the industry or any industry for that matter didn't just have a crack then they wouldn't have been where they are now. What's the worst that can happen? You'll have a big makeup collection that cost heaps?? Um we're already headed that way anyway!
CatsMeow
Well-known member
Quote:
Yeah, I don't think that being good at art necessarily makes you a good MUA - there's so much to learn in terms of the actual makeup as a medium not to mention the "canvas" - the face! (different skin textures and colours, blemishes, age of the person, the list goes on!) The prospect of matching a foundation on someone scares the absolute crap out of me.
Practice does make perfect I think!
And passion goes a long way too.
Like I said, if I just come out of the course with a better understanding of products and application (and not to mention a kick-arse kit) - then I'm happy.
| Originally Posted by pinkvanilla
There are definitely some good points being raised
How much of it is natural ability though? I'm not much of an artist when it comes to pen and paper, but I love playing with makeup, and learning about it. Surely alot of it is learning about technique and practice makes perfect, yeah?
|
Yeah, I don't think that being good at art necessarily makes you a good MUA - there's so much to learn in terms of the actual makeup as a medium not to mention the "canvas" - the face! (different skin textures and colours, blemishes, age of the person, the list goes on!) The prospect of matching a foundation on someone scares the absolute crap out of me.
Practice does make perfect I think!
Like I said, if I just come out of the course with a better understanding of products and application (and not to mention a kick-arse kit) - then I'm happy.
pinkvanilla
Well-known member
Well I've definitely got the passion for it!
allthatgl1tt3rs
Well-known member
THANK YOU PINK VANILLA!!! I've been trawling the threads for months to find this topic and at last!!
I'm a UK girl myself so I can't relate 100% to the Australian POV but I don't think there's a huge difference globally! I certainly am aware that the economic climate isn't in a very good state to say the least and that the effects of it will linger for a good two to three years...
I first began my makeup encounter by helping a friend out on weddings a while ago after she saw my makeover photos when I did my sister's makeup. Her training is the only form of training I've received so far apart from my self-taught techniques. Every time I do a someone's makeup I get a real buzz and that's when I figured that I should give it a go.
I'm currently saving for a course that I've been keen on taking for months now. I visited the academy where it's held the other week and I fell in love with the place! There was a real buzz, the course content is great for what I want to get into, the hands-on help is great, you get access to fantastic pro products and you even get your very own professional brush kit to keep!
The tutors there were very helpful and one of them told me you need a combination of the right attitude, enthusiasm and passion - you don't have to be technically excellent at first, that can come with time. Eventually though, if you have the first three, the technique will come with time and practice!
I wasn't great at art at school, I only really liked drawing faces which has made me panic from time to time about the whole makeup route. But for as long as I can remember I've had a real passion for fashion and makeup and I am so in love with the colours, techniques, textures and effects etc. that you can create - especially avant garde makeup! I'd love to do makeup for editorial pieces and music videos - those are my dream paths.
Like Lara says, counter experience is something I keep hearing everywhere I go - even the tutor at the academy said it's one of the ways of getting your foot in the door. But without the training I don't feel comfortable applying and right now practically everywhere has a recruitment freeze - Clarins, Bobbi Brown etc. I had a friend who was looking so I found out from her. And I hear MAC has one right now...
Thing is this is my dream. I've never felt so passionate about anything other than this. My friends say they see it, my bf says the same - that they see my face light up when I talk about it!
I don't want to get to 50 and realise I never gave it a go... It's a pretty scary prospect though - I work in an office job right now and whilst it's not the most boring of office jobs out there, it doesn't get me excited enough! For me personally, when a job is something that you have to spend a lot of time doing for most of your life, it's important that I enjoy it.
My office job pays well though and I'm really not obsessed with money, I just want enough money to get me by without feeling like I have to live off bread forever LOL. But I hear counter pay isn't very good (am I wrong?!) - I don't wanna put my bf and I in jeopardy - we have rent and bills to pay and I don't wanna be in a position where I can't pay those!
So (and maybe Lara you can help?) my main question is now (and I apologise if this seems personal, it's not, I'm just assessing my route of how to make a living without getting into bankruptcy LOL!): Do/did any of you start out at a counter with your own house to pay rent for/mortgage and bills to pay rather than living with the parents and did you manage/are you managing to live okay??
TIA x
I'm a UK girl myself so I can't relate 100% to the Australian POV but I don't think there's a huge difference globally! I certainly am aware that the economic climate isn't in a very good state to say the least and that the effects of it will linger for a good two to three years...
I first began my makeup encounter by helping a friend out on weddings a while ago after she saw my makeover photos when I did my sister's makeup. Her training is the only form of training I've received so far apart from my self-taught techniques. Every time I do a someone's makeup I get a real buzz and that's when I figured that I should give it a go.
I'm currently saving for a course that I've been keen on taking for months now. I visited the academy where it's held the other week and I fell in love with the place! There was a real buzz, the course content is great for what I want to get into, the hands-on help is great, you get access to fantastic pro products and you even get your very own professional brush kit to keep!
The tutors there were very helpful and one of them told me you need a combination of the right attitude, enthusiasm and passion - you don't have to be technically excellent at first, that can come with time. Eventually though, if you have the first three, the technique will come with time and practice!
I wasn't great at art at school, I only really liked drawing faces which has made me panic from time to time about the whole makeup route. But for as long as I can remember I've had a real passion for fashion and makeup and I am so in love with the colours, techniques, textures and effects etc. that you can create - especially avant garde makeup! I'd love to do makeup for editorial pieces and music videos - those are my dream paths.
Like Lara says, counter experience is something I keep hearing everywhere I go - even the tutor at the academy said it's one of the ways of getting your foot in the door. But without the training I don't feel comfortable applying and right now practically everywhere has a recruitment freeze - Clarins, Bobbi Brown etc. I had a friend who was looking so I found out from her. And I hear MAC has one right now...
Thing is this is my dream. I've never felt so passionate about anything other than this. My friends say they see it, my bf says the same - that they see my face light up when I talk about it!
I don't want to get to 50 and realise I never gave it a go... It's a pretty scary prospect though - I work in an office job right now and whilst it's not the most boring of office jobs out there, it doesn't get me excited enough! For me personally, when a job is something that you have to spend a lot of time doing for most of your life, it's important that I enjoy it.
My office job pays well though and I'm really not obsessed with money, I just want enough money to get me by without feeling like I have to live off bread forever LOL. But I hear counter pay isn't very good (am I wrong?!) - I don't wanna put my bf and I in jeopardy - we have rent and bills to pay and I don't wanna be in a position where I can't pay those!
So (and maybe Lara you can help?) my main question is now (and I apologise if this seems personal, it's not, I'm just assessing my route of how to make a living without getting into bankruptcy LOL!): Do/did any of you start out at a counter with your own house to pay rent for/mortgage and bills to pay rather than living with the parents and did you manage/are you managing to live okay??
TIA x
boudoirblonde
Well-known member
allthatgl1tt3rs
I won't sugarcoat it for you - I'm struggling. I did my Cert II in Make-Up Services almost a year ago, a few weeks after I had completed it I got a job at one of the Dior counters (part-time) in a department store. I signed on for 17hrs a week, with top up, and possibly going up to 20 (which was what I really wanted).
Now I'm down to 15hrs a week (and they make you feel like your lucky to get that!) and significantly reduced top-up hrs (only 3 or 4 times a yr - including Christmas). Two hrs a week might not sound like much, but believe me when the pay rate is that low, and you don't have many hours to start with, it certainly does! The pay rate is embarrassing and insulting to say the least, there is commission if we make target each month, but they are near impossible, and it isn't that much anyway. Oh, and I just found out today, we are no longer being paid for training!
And in the end - its not really about make-up, I've done 4 actual appointments in the whole time I've been there. Dior's focus is moving more and more towards anti-aging skincare (and who is going to take advice on that from a 21yo?!). Overall, Dior's business is about 45% make-up. My figures are about 85% make-up, and believe me they are constantly asking why I dont sell more skincare! Plus the department store is always down your throat - i.e open more of our credit cards, your also looking after Guerlain, Clarins and Ella Bache today, keep an eye on fragrances today, etc etc. (FYI Im paid 50% by Dior, 50% by the department store).
I think I would much prefer to work for a "make-up" brand, i.e. not designer, more like Bobbi Brown or MAC. Better yet a stand alone store!
Just my 2 cents - sorry if I sound a little bitter had the WORST day today
I won't sugarcoat it for you - I'm struggling. I did my Cert II in Make-Up Services almost a year ago, a few weeks after I had completed it I got a job at one of the Dior counters (part-time) in a department store. I signed on for 17hrs a week, with top up, and possibly going up to 20 (which was what I really wanted).
Now I'm down to 15hrs a week (and they make you feel like your lucky to get that!) and significantly reduced top-up hrs (only 3 or 4 times a yr - including Christmas). Two hrs a week might not sound like much, but believe me when the pay rate is that low, and you don't have many hours to start with, it certainly does! The pay rate is embarrassing and insulting to say the least, there is commission if we make target each month, but they are near impossible, and it isn't that much anyway. Oh, and I just found out today, we are no longer being paid for training!
And in the end - its not really about make-up, I've done 4 actual appointments in the whole time I've been there. Dior's focus is moving more and more towards anti-aging skincare (and who is going to take advice on that from a 21yo?!). Overall, Dior's business is about 45% make-up. My figures are about 85% make-up, and believe me they are constantly asking why I dont sell more skincare! Plus the department store is always down your throat - i.e open more of our credit cards, your also looking after Guerlain, Clarins and Ella Bache today, keep an eye on fragrances today, etc etc. (FYI Im paid 50% by Dior, 50% by the department store).
I think I would much prefer to work for a "make-up" brand, i.e. not designer, more like Bobbi Brown or MAC. Better yet a stand alone store!
Just my 2 cents - sorry if I sound a little bitter had the WORST day today
CatsMeow
Well-known member
hey allthatgl1tt3rs - I'm in a very similiar situation to you, in the sense that I'm in a decent office job but perhaps not getting quite the desired fulfilment I guess (creative-wise - I'm in HR which isn't overly creative). Money isn't the be all and end all to me, but I know that realistically there are things I want to do in the next 3 years (prior to having a family) like doing my cert II in July this year and going overseas a couple of times (not to mention pay bills and a mortgage) - and all of this requires money to do so. So I've accepted the fact that I am going to have to build up a freelance business in addition to working fulltime with my office job. Impossible? I don't think so, but this approach will definitely take more time. I think the key is to not have expectations that it is going to happen overnight. Best to stay positive, get as much experience as possible - whether it be unpaid or paid. And just enjoy.
allthatgl1tt3rs, perhaps you could do your training part time (like me) and retain your office job, and if after training you find that you are gaining regular work, then you could decide to make the transition to fulltime makeup artistry? The only problem with keeping our current jobs is that it will be difficult to gain counter experience I guess.
allthatgl1tt3rs, perhaps you could do your training part time (like me) and retain your office job, and if after training you find that you are gaining regular work, then you could decide to make the transition to fulltime makeup artistry? The only problem with keeping our current jobs is that it will be difficult to gain counter experience I guess.
rockin26
Well-known member
allthatgl1tt3rs - I'm basically doing what catsmeow is talking about. I'm almost finished my cert II and am putting together a freelance business. I explored the idea of the counters but I don't want to leave my full time wage yet, financially it wouldn't be wise at the moment. I also acknowledge the current economic climate will make it difficult to get allot of business but I was already booked to do my course a while ago so I wasn't going to pull out.
My plan ATM is to continue full time office work for now and freelance in my spare time. I think I'm going to get in as much pro bono experience as I can and build on my technique. Hopefully when the economy is back on track I'll have a fair amount of practice under my belt and a decent portfolio to be able to go full time as a MUA.
I think if I left my job and tried to work on a counter the pay cut would be pretty hard to adjust with and like you said, the counters aren't hiring right now. I think freelance is a good way to go to start but be realistic that there isn't much work to be had and you would probably do more free work than paid just to build you skills and experience.
One other thing, when you sign up for your course don't just budget for the course itself and brushes, there is a ton more stuff you'll need and you'll need it all pretty much straight away. My course cost X amount but I've probably spent another $1500 in addition to it for other items I needed. Some of the stuff I already had but in the interests of hygiene I had to go and buy brand new as a separate for my kit.
Hope this is useful!
allthatgl1tt3rs
Well-known member
You guys are awesome, thank you for being so open!
Going with what Boudoirbabe is saying it saddens me to hear of the struggles a lot of MAs are encountering, especially when starting out. It's a harsh reality that I think I'm having to swallow like a bitter pill
I think the tutor (who's granted very much an active, current and very successful MA in the industry) did sugarcoat it for me a little. Of course she'll say it's just a case of getting out there - it's not in the academy's interest to put me off or I won't sign up!!! So she won't tell me it's all about doing a lot of work for free at first (and I'm reading more and more that expecting to turn a profit as a freelance MUA in the first two years is nigh on impossible!)
As you say, CatsMeow - it's going to take time. I've always been a little impatient with these things ever since I was a little girl. I like to see results fast, whether that be in terms of progress/picking up a new skill/honing an old one, etc. I can often get upset if something I'm doing isn't achieving the results I want straight away whether it comes to makeup/Photoshop or photography - all of which I like to combine together! I need to calm down and take things at their own pace I think - there's a lot to be said for trial and error!!
And you're right rockin26 - taking such a huge pay cut would be an awkward adjustment to make especially as I'm adjusted to what I'm on now. In my area the cost of living certainly isn't cheap! Having spoken to a lot of counter girls I've found that most of them live with their parents. So it's a totally different kettle of fish for them.
Thanks for the pointers - I've been putting together the figures and YES! I did think the other day - I need to add in the kit money too for starting up.
hew: As part of my course you get taken on a shopping trip to the local suppliers and it'd be great to be able to fork out then and there so I can be prepared right from the get-go
Going with what Boudoirbabe is saying it saddens me to hear of the struggles a lot of MAs are encountering, especially when starting out. It's a harsh reality that I think I'm having to swallow like a bitter pill
I think the tutor (who's granted very much an active, current and very successful MA in the industry) did sugarcoat it for me a little. Of course she'll say it's just a case of getting out there - it's not in the academy's interest to put me off or I won't sign up!!! So she won't tell me it's all about doing a lot of work for free at first (and I'm reading more and more that expecting to turn a profit as a freelance MUA in the first two years is nigh on impossible!)
As you say, CatsMeow - it's going to take time. I've always been a little impatient with these things ever since I was a little girl. I like to see results fast, whether that be in terms of progress/picking up a new skill/honing an old one, etc. I can often get upset if something I'm doing isn't achieving the results I want straight away whether it comes to makeup/Photoshop or photography - all of which I like to combine together! I need to calm down and take things at their own pace I think - there's a lot to be said for trial and error!!
And you're right rockin26 - taking such a huge pay cut would be an awkward adjustment to make especially as I'm adjusted to what I'm on now. In my area the cost of living certainly isn't cheap! Having spoken to a lot of counter girls I've found that most of them live with their parents. So it's a totally different kettle of fish for them.
Thanks for the pointers - I've been putting together the figures and YES! I did think the other day - I need to add in the kit money too for starting up.
Paramnesia
Well-known member
Hmmm this has been something I've been thinking about too. I'd love to get into the cosmetics industry, though freelancing isn't something I'm aiming for at the moment.
I wouldn't mind working for a counter to get up some experience but I'd have no idea what they'd expect. Do places hire based on talent/creativiness?
I'm a really fast learner with natural creative flare and the desire to learn. I'm just worried that nobody would hire me because I don't have any experience in retail. I've worked in hospitality and through that I've had a fair bit of customer service experience but I'm only 21 and spent most of my life at school. Prior to working I was at uni for 2.5yrs studying science lol.
I wouldn't mind working for a counter to get up some experience but I'd have no idea what they'd expect. Do places hire based on talent/creativiness?
I'm a really fast learner with natural creative flare and the desire to learn. I'm just worried that nobody would hire me because I don't have any experience in retail. I've worked in hospitality and through that I've had a fair bit of customer service experience but I'm only 21 and spent most of my life at school. Prior to working I was at uni for 2.5yrs studying science lol.
rockin26
Well-known member
Quote:
I think some counters don't need you to have a qualification but not having retail experience may not work in your favour, it's a bit different to hospitality in the sense that you have to be able to sell.
How about doing a course? All you'd need is a Cert II in Makeup Services and that would give you some experience and would look good on a resume. Not all counters require this but it'll at least give you a better understanding of makeup.
| Originally Posted by Paramnesia
Hmmm this has been something I've been thinking about too. I'd love to get into the cosmetics industry, though freelancing isn't something I'm aiming for at the moment. I wouldn't mind working for a counter to get up some experience but I'd have no idea what they'd expect. Do places hire based on talent/creativiness? I'm a really fast learner with natural creative flare and the desire to learn. I'm just worried that nobody would hire me because I don't have any experience in retail. I've worked in hospitality and through that I've had a fair bit of customer service experience but I'm only 21 and spent most of my life at school. Prior to working I was at uni for 2.5yrs studying science lol. |
I think some counters don't need you to have a qualification but not having retail experience may not work in your favour, it's a bit different to hospitality in the sense that you have to be able to sell.
How about doing a course? All you'd need is a Cert II in Makeup Services and that would give you some experience and would look good on a resume. Not all counters require this but it'll at least give you a better understanding of makeup.
miss_bailey
Well-known member
I know that at Myer and Dj's if you dont have some type of beauty experience (either retail or training) they wont consider you.
pinkvanilla
Well-known member
Well, after lots of thinking and doing a small makeup course, I am in the process of going freelance
I still have my permanent job, so at the moment it will only be part time to see how it goes. But if all goes well then that would be perfect! Ideally I'd love to quit my current job and just do this, but at least having money coming in will let me stock my kit up enough and put myself out there.
I am still aiming to do my diploma, hopefully next year but I think 2011 is more realistic.
Thank you to everyone who responded in this thread, it really did give me food for thought
I still have my permanent job, so at the moment it will only be part time to see how it goes. But if all goes well then that would be perfect! Ideally I'd love to quit my current job and just do this, but at least having money coming in will let me stock my kit up enough and put myself out there.
I am still aiming to do my diploma, hopefully next year but I think 2011 is more realistic.
Thank you to everyone who responded in this thread, it really did give me food for thought
xLongLashesx
Well-known member
Well done pinkvanilla! It's always great to see someone following their dreams!
Just out of interest, how much do you freelancers charge to do someone's mu? not bridal just for a night out. There's some girls at work that are thinking of getting theirs done and I want to give them a ball park figure.
Just out of interest, how much do you freelancers charge to do someone's mu? not bridal just for a night out. There's some girls at work that are thinking of getting theirs done and I want to give them a ball park figure.
pinkvanilla
Well-known member
Great question LL, I'd also like to know as I'm trying to figure out my prices at the moment.
metal_romantic
Well-known member
Quote:
I'm studying makeup and they won't consider me. I even had an interview with Modelco and aced it- the lady from Modelco said that all I had to do was have a chat with the manager at DJ's and then get started. The call that she assured me I would "definitely" get never came. I rang and rang for WEEKS and when I finally got through to the manager, she said she hired someone else WEEKS ago and that David Jones conducted their OWN interviews- so what was the point of Modelco interviewing me? I just really hate DJ's now as I was working there before that and they really messed me around (and my friend too) and broke all of their promises. Sorry for the rant. I was going to try at Inglot but they acted weird when I spoke to them about applying. In the meantime I got a job at Diva (the jewellery shop) and although it's not in makeup, I LOVE it there. I still want to do makeup, but on my own terms.
| Originally Posted by miss_bailey
I know that at Myer and Dj's if you dont have some type of beauty experience (either retail or training) they wont consider you. |
I'm studying makeup and they won't consider me. I even had an interview with Modelco and aced it- the lady from Modelco said that all I had to do was have a chat with the manager at DJ's and then get started. The call that she assured me I would "definitely" get never came. I rang and rang for WEEKS and when I finally got through to the manager, she said she hired someone else WEEKS ago and that David Jones conducted their OWN interviews- so what was the point of Modelco interviewing me? I just really hate DJ's now as I was working there before that and they really messed me around (and my friend too) and broke all of their promises. Sorry for the rant. I was going to try at Inglot but they acted weird when I spoke to them about applying. In the meantime I got a job at Diva (the jewellery shop) and although it's not in makeup, I LOVE it there. I still want to do makeup, but on my own terms.
Pinupsundae
Well-known member
Hmm metal_romantic that's really strange and unfortunate.
Sorry to hear that you had that happen to you. I have an interview to work at DJs over Christmas as a casual, so I hope that turns out ok. However, I do know a girl who got hired for the Modelco counter down here with nothing but retail experience, that was through DJs, so maybe they're not as make-up-centric as the other counters? It seems ridiculous that they interviewed you though if DJs is the one that does the hiring. Ugh!
