Breastfeeding in public

[ratmist]

Re: Breastfeeding (moved from Industry Discussion)

What irritates me is that one person's definition of discretion may be vastly different from someone else's. How am I supposed to know whether I'm offending someone?

If I take every reasonable precaution to ensure no one sees me breastfeed, and someone *still* gets offended, what am I meant to do? Stop feeding in public? Stay at home and never leave my house until I stop feeding? It just makes me so angry I could spit, which is why I get completely ranty. It is personal to me - I make no bones about that.

It's not that I disagree with the concept of being discreet. I just disagree that I will be able to breastfeed in public and never, ever offend someone by that very act, whatever I try. I've seen people get shouted at even if they've got a blanket over their feeding child, in the middle of a mall, because some people honestly don't think you should be breastfeeding in public. They seem to have this concept that breastfeeding mothers should either pump or stay home. And given some of the comments on this board, it seems that's a popular opinion, and that enrages me.

If I don't accept that whatever I do, I may offend someone by the very act of breastfeeding, then I can't leave the house with my infant, because I will be terrified about what happens if the kid becomes hungry. I shouldn't have to worry about people's dirty looks and comments just because I need to feed my child.

 

[liv]

Re: Breastfeeding (moved from Industry Discussion)

Well this has been a very interesting thread to read through. I know that breastfeeding is a hot button among parents; breast over bottle, nursing in public, etc etc, but I don't care to get into all that since I'm not a parent, and haven't researched it enough to know a lot about it (although I do know that breast milk is better for babies because it has antibodies from the mother from a purely factual standpoint). The fact that some women are unable to produce enough milk, some children refuse to nurse, or have lactose intolerance are all issues that complicate what is considered 'right' and 'wrong.' I have relatives who have to feed their babies with formula simply because they do not produce enough milk on their own (even using a pump and taking ob-approved vitamins). She would rather strictly nurse, not only for the antibody benefits, but because, hell, that shit is free. Formula is extremely expensive. I hate to think women judge her and deem her a selfish or bad mother because she feeds my cousin with a bottle.

I don't see what the big fuss is about, honestly. If I see a woman nursing a baby, it doesn't register as "OMG HER BREAST HOW SCANDALOUS" and it certainly doesn't offend me. I've seen more breasts than I ever care to going to the pool, mall, hell, even my school. I've read the responses, and it seems like people who are uncomfortable with it haven't really said why, just 'because.' Yes, common social decency expects everyone, including nursing mothers, to be reasonably respectful of those around you. But I don't see one reason as to why nursing a baby is offensive to onlookers. If it makes you feel uncomfortable, LOOK AWAY. I see lots of things/people I don't care for every day, and I just don't pay them any attention.

They are not second-class citizens, and they shouldn't be sequestered away into 'nursing rooms,' 'unpopulated areas', or *gag*, the public restroom to nurse. Nursing is nothing like defecating in public, which is a public health concern. Seeing a nursing mom doesn't affect you if you aren't the mother or child.


Honestly, I find gross displays of PDA (genital groping, extremely slobbery kissing, etc) disgusting, not nursing women.

For the OP's situation, firstly, that woman was being rude. I think when you are receiving customer service, you should be attentive to the SA, not be talking on the phone, or doing something else distracting such as nursing your child. Take care of the more important matter (nursing) and then go try on shoes. And asking you to put the shoes on her feet is a bit rich. I would never want to work at the store you work at. Feet totally gross me out. =/

 

[Korms]

Re: Breastfeeding (moved from Industry Discussion)

Quote:

Originally Posted by ratmist She did have the choice to speak to her manager about her situation if she was uncomfortable or felt unable to do her job. A simple, "Please excuse me," to that customer, and she could've easily gone to her manager or asked a colleague to take care of the woman, if she felt utterly incapable of handling herself. Pathetic.

I don't think it's entirely fair to suggest the OP's actions are "pathetic". It was most probably her first time dealing with that situation and, if you re-read her post, she did state that she had learned from the experience and spoke to her manager about what to do should the situation arise again.

 

[Beauty Mark]

Re: Breastfeeding (moved from Industry Discussion)

Quote:

The problem I have with your arguments is that there is no definitive line for what's considered rude with breastfeeding and what isn't. For every person like yourself that simply wants a breastfeeding mother to get off or move aside from a busy sidewalk, there are those that simply don't want to see it at all, anywhere, in a public area.

To me, what's rude is if it truly hinders someone else in a way that cannot be simply fixed or goes beyond what should be expected of the. For instance, the damn dog next door that has been barking since about 6:50 AM and still is whining at 8:33AM. I can't avoid that one at all, and it is within reason for me to be able to sleep in my apartment without a dog barking nonstop.

I think stopping in the middle of the street is rude for whatever reasons, unless it's dire (like you realize you lost your kid or someone who needs to be watched constantly). I think taking up people's time more than necessary is rude. There really is no reason for someone to not go somewhere else and do it. In terms of breastfeeding in the middle of a crowded street, that actually sounds really dangerous to me, considering how fast and carelessly people walk.

It's up to all of us to determine what's rude and what isn't. Everyone in this world has very different definitions for pretty much any situation, I'm sure. The best way to determine what's tolerable behavior is how you'd feel if the same thing happened to you or how it really affects others.

 

[pumpkincat210]

Re: Breastfeeding (moved from Industry Discussion)

At first I was a little surprised the first time I saw a woman breastfeeding in public. It wasn't until after I had my own children did i realize that its not a big deal and now i don't notice it really. As long as she doesn't squirt her milk on me i'm cool.

 

[sharkbytes]

Re: Breastfeeding (moved from Industry Discussion)

Quote:

Originally Posted by ratmist The problem I have with your arguments is that there is no definitive line for what's considered rude with breastfeeding and what isn't. For every person like yourself that simply wants a breastfeeding mother to get off or move aside from a busy sidewalk, there are those that simply don't want to see it at all, anywhere, in a public area. You mentioned a food court or nursing room. Again, if there are nursing rooms available to me and it's convenient for me to use them, I'll happily use it. As for food courts though, anywhere food-related is a prime target for some people to feel uncomfortable. Just like your sidewalk argument, plenty of people will say they don't want to see a mother breastfeeding where they have to eat, such as in a restaurant or food court. Bottom line, I am very dubious of arguments like, "Be more courteous" and "Be more respectful of others" when it comes to breastfeeding because everyone will have an opinion on whether or not the situation a woman finds herself in is appropriate to breastfeed or not. It's not black and white. So if I'm constantly thinking to myself, "Is someone around me going to be offended if I feed my child?", I'm never going to leave the damned house, because of course someone is going to be offended because that's just how ignorant folk roll.

I can understand the reasoning behind that. There isn't always a clear cut definition of what some people will find rude and what others will not. From the way you've phrased this, it certainly doesn't seem like you're the type of pushy person I'm talking about. Of course there's no reason to be worried about leaving the house because of a few people who are going to balk. I'm just specifically speaking about the type of person who doesn't care who they inconveinience, in any situation.

Thank you for replying politely; I really wasn't suggesting no one ever breastfeed in public, or if doing so means run immediately to a gross bathroom and hide. Like I said, it's not the nudity I care about at all. I don't care to see a woman nursing, but what I dislike is when someone makes it impossible for me to avoid, and disregards everyone else in a public area. I do get your point that some people loathe the sight of it so much that it makes being in public uncomfortable as it is.

 

[fafinette21]

Re: Breastfeeding (moved from Industry Discussion)

Quote:

Originally Posted by ratmist She did have the choice to speak to her manager about her situation if she was uncomfortable or felt unable to do her job. A simple, "Please excuse me," to that customer, and she could've easily gone to her manager or asked a colleague to take care of the woman, if she felt utterly incapable of handling herself. Pathetic.

I'm sorry, where did she say she was utterly incapable of handling herself? In fact I believe she helped that woman DESPITE her uncomfort which is more than a lot of people could have done. If this was the first time she had encountered this situation, how could she have known what was acceptable and not acceptable? With some of the opinions in this thread, she might have thought pawning her off on someone else would cause a confrontation that she would rather have avoided. Who knows how one might react if she made it clear she was uncomfortable with the situation? And what if no one wanted to help that mother while she was breastfeeding, much less put the shoes on her feet as well? What a commotion that might have caused! The fact is, no matter who you are, the world does not exist to serve you. The woman should have been more mindful of her actions and how they were affecting the people around her.

 

[M.A.C. head.]

Re: Breastfeeding (moved from Industry Discussion)

Quote:

Originally Posted by ratmist So if I'm constantly thinking to myself, "Is someone around me going to be offended if I feed my child?", I'm never going to leave the damned house, because of course someone is going to be offended because that's just how ignorant folk roll.

LMAO Honey I'm so sorry but I'm laughing my ass off at that last part.

 

[xStarryEyedX]

Re: Breastfeeding (moved from Industry Discussion)

Quote:

Originally Posted by ratmist She did have the choice to speak to her manager about her situation if she was uncomfortable or felt unable to do her job. A simple, "Please excuse me," to that customer, and she could've easily gone to her manager or asked a colleague to take care of the woman, if she felt utterly incapable of handling herself. Pathetic.

That's not fair. This isn't a situation a lot of people have to face, and she might not have known how to handle it. A lot of times we are told "it's your job, deal with it" so she might have thought that's what she had to do. I certainly don't think the "pathetic" comment was necessary. That's just mean.

 

[pumpkincat210]

Re: Breastfeeding (moved from Industry Discussion)

I found this site so interesting. It tells the laws of breastfeeding in the united states. Breastfeeding is very healthy for both the mother and child and should not be confused with sexual indecency. Society today has not completely come to terms with the fact that breasts are a functional part of the human body in a non-sexual way. 50 States Summary of Breastfeeding Laws Tennessee seems to have the strictest law, prohibiting a mother from breastfeeding in public after the baby is one year old.

 

[DirtyPlum]

Re: Breastfeeding (moved from Industry Discussion)

Interesting read. In my culture, a very thin veil is used to cover the mother for modesty reasons.

The whole thing doesnt phase me at all but I do think if there is a mother/baby room available, they should be used. Not cos I think it shouldnt be done in public, but IMO its more comfortable for baby and mother to have a quiet/peaceful/comfortable place for feeding (bottle or breast).

But there is no excuse for PDAs. eurgh.

 

[redambition]

Re: Breastfeeding (moved from Industry Discussion)

i don't have children, so i don't know where i stand on this for myself. i'm not sure if i'd be comfortable with NIP (nurse/nursing in public, LOVE that acronym).

that said - if a mother wants to NIP, that is her decision and i'm happy for her to do that.

I think this ad sums it up perfectly

adults eat in public. why shouldn't a baby be allowed to do the same?

 

[ZoeKat]

Re: Breastfeeding (moved from Industry Discussion)

Seeing a mother breastfeed in public wouldn't offend me. To be realistic, I have probably been around a nursing mother and not even realized it.

Unfortunately there will always be people who cannot see breasts as anything other than sexual. I'm reminded of these idiot guys I knew in college. They used to get so excited at the possibility of getting to check out a woman's chest if she was nursing in public (I don't think they realized that there isn't much to see anyway). If I am ever a mother and am making the decision on breastfeeding (hope I'm never in that situation anyway), I'm sure I won't be able to get those morons out of my mind and will be looking around all paranoid.

 

[MAC_Pixie04]

Re: Breastfeeding (moved from Industry Discussion)

I didn't read this whole thread, I'm too lazy.


I have nothing against women breastfeeding in public. I would rather a woman feed her baby in front of me than to hear it scream. However, I have a problem when mothers are doing something that they could take a break from, but won't when they need to feed their baby.

Example, a few months ago at my old store, I had a woman come in for an appointment. She had her baby with her, and while I was gathering product, she picked up her baby and was holding her. While I was setting up my station, I noticed she was breastfeeding. If I wasn't about to work on her, it would absolutely NOT have bothered me. I offered to hold onto my station and told her if she needed to step to the family restroom in the mall to feed and change her baby I would wait for her, or if she was already comfortable where she was, that I would go help another client and give her a few moments to take care of her child.

"No, it's okay, go ahead." she told me. I was uncomfortable only because I had to work around her and her baby, and her moving the baby around. I had to be concerned about spilling any product on her baby or on her baby's blanket, as I was working with loose mineral powders and spray toners and brush cleaner. It was simply in my way; it affected me doing my job. Babies need to be fed, and I get that, but I also have to work, and a Bare Minerals consultation was something that could have come 2nd to her baby's needs being taken care of. Because her baby was getting fussy, it made me rush. I wasn't able to give her the experience I usually give my clients because noticing her get antsy and need to accomodate her child made me feel rushed.

So the only time I'm bothered by mothers breastfeeding in public is when it affects my ability to work or function. Otherwise, by all means, feed your child...it's important. My mom fed me everywhere, because my needs trumped her wants when I was in infancy, and I believe that's how it should be. I don't think it's gross. In certain situations it's just in the way, but can be worked out.

Those of you who claim to be disgusted or bothered by breastfeeding probably got breastfed in public by your mothers, so by all means grow up. I see more tit on primetime TV than I do when a woman nurses her child in front of me.

 

[gooblyglob]

Re: Breastfeeding (moved from Industry Discussion)

Quote:

Originally Posted by pumpkincat210 At first I was a little surprised the first time I saw a woman breastfeeding in public. It wasn't until after I had my own children did i realize that its not a big deal and now i don't notice it really. As long as she doesn't squirt her milk on me i'm cool.

I don't have kids yet, but breastfeeding to me is like carrying a baby. They can't walk, you carry them. They get hungry, you feed them. I think I'll only be concerned about not squirting on stuff or getting cold hehe

 

[ratmist]

Re: Breastfeeding (moved from Industry Discussion)

Quote:

Originally Posted by MAC_Pixie04 Example, a few months ago at my old store, I had a woman come in for an appointment. She had her baby with her, and while I was gathering product, she picked up her baby and was holding her. While I was setting up my station, I noticed she was breastfeeding. If I wasn't about to work on her, it would absolutely NOT have bothered me. I offered to hold onto my station and told her if she needed to step to the family restroom in the mall to feed and change her baby I would wait for her, or if she was already comfortable where she was, that I would go help another client and give her a few moments to take care of her child. "No, it's okay, go ahead." she told me. I was uncomfortable only because I had to work around her and her baby, and her moving the baby around. I had to be concerned about spilling any product on her baby or on her baby's blanket, as I was working with loose mineral powders and spray toners and brush cleaner. It was simply in my way; it affected me doing my job. Babies need to be fed, and I get that, but I also have to work, and a Bare Minerals consultation was something that could have come 2nd to her baby's needs being taken care of. Because her baby was getting fussy, it made me rush. I wasn't able to give her the experience I usually give my clients because noticing her get antsy and need to accomodate her child made me feel rushed. So the only time I'm bothered by mothers breastfeeding in public is when it affects my ability to work or function.

This to me is entirely different from the OP (i.e the shoe incident).

You had a legitimate reason to be concerned about your ability to do your job safely while the woman was breastfeeding. I think you would've been well within your rights to point out that you did not want to risk spilling products onto the infant, and would prefer to wait until she was finished feeding before commencing the appointment. I would prefer to see a sales person stand on safety principles and risk the wrath of a customer than bow down to breastfeeding principles.

I honestly don't see there's anything wrong with a sales person declining to serve a woman who is in the middle of breastfeeding if that sales person feels genuinely unable to complete his/her job safely. There is a difference between safety though, and revulsion brought on by pure ignorance. In my opinion, the OP expressed the latter, whereas MAC_Pixie04 was clearly more concerned about the former.

Asking a shoe sales person to help you put on and take off shoes while you are breastfeeding is a grey area to me. Nevertheless, I think there should be guidelines in place before the situation occurs, so that people know how to handle themselves correctly. Hence, the OP found out from her manager: "My manager said in that situation, she would have asked the lady is she preffered to use the training room or a manager's office to finish feeding." I still think though that the attitude of the OP stinks. " Nothing is covering her or the baby, I see baby sucking nipple." OMFG!!!!!111!!! *rolls eyes* Get over it.

 

[NutMeg]

Re: Breastfeeding (moved from Industry Discussion)

Quote:

Originally Posted by ratmist Asking a shoe sales person to help you put on and take off shoes while you are breastfeeding is a grey area to me. Nevertheless, I think there should be guidelines in place before the situation occurs, so that people know how to handle themselves correctly. Hence, the OP found out from her manager: "My manager said in that situation, she would have asked the lady is she preffered to use the training room or a manager's office to finish feeding." I still think though that the attitude of the OP stinks. " Nothing is covering her or the baby, I see baby sucking nipple." OMFG!!!!!111!!! *rolls eyes* Get over it.

To be honest, it would bug me if as a salesperson someone expected me to take off their shoes and put on new ones so they didn't have to, regardless of what they were doing otherwise. I don't know if this was part of the OP's job description or not, but I definitely would feel annoyed/offended if someone older than a five year old expected that kind of service from me. By the way ratmist, I have to comment on this. I find you normally to be calm, cool, and collected and to make your point in a very articulate and rational way. I've seen you deviate from that more than I would expect in this thread and while I know that this is extremely personal to you, its a little disappointing to me because I normally really enjoy and agree with your posts.

And before anyone gets on my case, let me say that I am extremely pro-breast feeding. I just think that there is a much more appropriate and likely more successful way to get people to see your side.

 

[florabundance]

Re: Breastfeeding (moved from Industry Discussion)

Quote:

Originally Posted by pumpkincat210 Tennessee seems to have the strictest law, prohibiting a mother from breastfeeding in public after the baby is one year old.

When my older brother was a baby, our paediatrician told my mother that breast milk has no real nutritional benefits after a year. I don't know the extent to which that is true but maybe that's why the Tennessee law is that way?

 

[Lapis]

Re: Breastfeeding (moved from Industry Discussion)

Quote:

Originally Posted by florabundance When my older brother was a baby, our paediatrician told my mother that breast milk has no real nutritional benefits after a year. I don't know the extent to which that is true but maybe that's why the Tennessee law is that way?

well that's not true so it should have no bearing on the law.

Here's some info
kellymom.com :: Extended Breastfeeding Fact Sheet

 

[ratmist]

Re: Breastfeeding (moved from Industry Discussion)

Quote:

Originally Posted by NutMeg By the way ratmist, I have to comment on this. I find you normally to be calm, cool, and collected and to make your point in a very articulate and rational way. I've seen you deviate from that more than I would expect in this thread and while I know that this is extremely personal to you, its a little disappointing to me because I normally really enjoy and agree with your posts.

I'm due to give birth in three weeks, assuming this kid doesn't make me wait longer. It's fair to describe me as a basketcase of nerves and hormones. That might be why my posts are erratic and less articulate right now.

Also, I've had to put up with people on both sides of the breastfeeding debate throughout my pregnancy. I've had people tell me what to do, what not to do, where to feed, where not to feed, why it's the best thing ever, why it may not be the best thing ever, why people can get offended by it, why those people should get over it, why I as a mother shouldn't be bothered by someone else's opinions about breastfeeding, why I should have to consider the general public while I'm trying to feed my child.

I live in somewhat dread that, for example, I'll be trying to shop for groceries for my family, or do any of the hundreds of things I'll have to do after the baby arrives, and in the middle of it all, have to breastfeed my child. And OMFG someone will see and have a problem with it.

I'm thoroughly and completely sick of it. I just wish people would get over breastfeeding as an issue or a problem or anything other than an absolutely normal part of life, so that babies can be fed, mothers can get on with their lives, and everyone can be happy.

So yes, it's personal to me, because it speaks to the heart of my fears about becoming a new and first-time mother. We want to get it right - honestly ladies, we really do - but for every person saying we're doing it right, there are hundreds saying we're doing it wrong.

I dunno. Reading the OP and a few other's ideas about breastfeeding (especially the "Pump if you want to go out!" and "if it's natural, so is defecating!") set me off. I'll admit I'm a wee bit embarassed with how angry I've been in these posts, all ranty mcbitchy, but there's a genuine reason behind the anger. It's not all hot air.