Confused?

[DevinGirl]

I’ve always not liked the term ‘bi’. To me, to be bisexual is when you can have the same exact relationship with a woman the way you can a man. I realize that most people’s definition is if you’re sexually attracted to both sexes then you’re automatically bisexual. Sexual attraction is a tricky thing, because, before marriage of course , I could see a man & really picture myself having sex with him. I never saw women that way. I never saw a woman & said to myself…”Wow, I could $%!# the hell out of her!”. I’ve been with women in the past. I was always the one who did the ‘giving’. Sometimes I knew that these were the kind of girls that would only do anything flirtatious with me if there were guys around to gawk. These sort of ladies, to me, are only doing it for attention. You know…the ‘girls gone wild’ type chicks. *cough annoying cough* However most of the time any of my lesbian escapades occurred, I was usually drunk.

With my past & how emotionally messed up I was, I probably would have had sex with an alien if they consented. I just wanted to be touched – by anyone. I never held relationships. By my past I’m talking about when I was 17-20. I was a whirlwind of promiscuity. Not to imply that I didn’t have fun, but at the end of the day, more often than not, I just felt empty & used up.

Back to the topic at hand! Basically I just liked to, when the opportunity came about, to mess around w/ the ladies. I never felt like I could ‘love’ a woman. Not in the same way I could a guy, though. It, to me, was like this strange experience that felt slightly wrong, but totally exciting. I dunno, like trying some new drug. Never something I could see getting ‘hooked’ on, just once-in-while spontaneous fun. Now fast-forward to when I met Dave (my husband).

Keep in mind that I’d never had what I’d call a serious relationship. So, it was completely new to me to have feelings of complete & utter devotion to someone. Initially, I remember saying to him I didn’t know if I could never not have sex with another woman again. He considered to be with anyone (woman included) outside of a relationship cheating. He had a pretty repressed sexual past & didn’t know how to handle the idea of this girl (first girl he ever loved) saying that she didn’t know if she could just have sex with him forever.

After awhile I saw his reasoning. While at times he didn’t handle it with grace & made me feel bad a lot, I began to see being with a girl as cheating. I mean it’s another person NOT your significant other, so I thought of as cheating, too. I mean I only wanted Dave in my life, bed, anywhere. He had this loser friend who had this loser f*** buddy who was at our apt. one night. Dave & I had been together maybe a couple of weeks. I pretty much moved in right away, mind you. We had been drinking a lot that night. One thing led to another (as it usually does) & we started playing a drinking game which ended up in the guys daring us to kiss or some lame shit. I say lame because it feels like putting on a show y’know? I hate that. Anyway, I kiss her & feel her up a little in front of the guys. Afterward I felt stupid, I mean I made out with someone & I was in love with David. Why would I even do that? Besides it was like a performance & I feel that’s demeaning & just not me. Dave didn’t know how to quite handle it. I mean he (like most other males) has a strong like for seeing 2 women together. He was turned on, but didn’t want to say he was right out because of the way he thought. He felt like he was contradicting himself.

Then I met this girl (about a year or so ago), who I made out with. It was my birthday, she took me out to dinner, & I thought she was a friend. We kissed, & I felt horrible about it. Well, very recently I told Dave. I told Dave if he gave me shit about it I’d kill him. He’s the one dredging up all of this stuff in me & I got confused. Because before this happened, the same girl & I (maybe a month or two before) were drunk as shit at a bar & somehow there was a pic of us pecking. Not making out – no tongue, just a peck on the lips. She sent that pic to me online, & I not thinking much about it didn’t delete it. Dave ended up finding it & you’d better believe he threw a fit. Made me feel soooooooo bad & horrible, that it pretty much ended the friendship between her & I. Not to mention she was just a shitty person so it was bound to happen anyway. Now Dave sees where he messed up & has apologized. Again he can’t change the past or his for that matter.

He had a really hard past sexually. Not performance-wise mind you (my Italian hottie is equipped just fine), just certain emotional issues that stem from some pretty bad shit that happened to him. He’s as new as all of this as I am. He’s starting to be okay with admitting certain sexual desires (not feeling worthless or dirty), & I’m trying to come to terms with that I want to be with just one person & I don’t have to let everyone I see into my pants to feel wanted & desired. We’re polar opposites with our sexual pasts.

Anyway fast-forward to now. Dave realizes that he doesn’t think me being with a woman’s cheating. His ultimate fantasy is to see me with another woman. He doesn’t want to have sex with that other woman mind you, he just wants the sensation 2 women having sex & touching him. It can’t be two random women either, has to be me. I have to want to be there & not drunk. Being drunk takes away from the thought of me actually wanting to do it. That’s the turn on for him.

I was outraged. Outraged is a strong word. But because of his theory, I altered my own. He understands this & feels bad & has apologized countless times. He can’t change how he acted, though he wishes he could. I just feel so confused, hurt, & all over the place. I feel he’s being a hypocrite now. I mean sometimes I don’t even like to show him pictures of friends I’ve made online b/c in the back of my head I’m afraid he’ll think something.

I’m just stuck in between his bullshit in the past (which he’ll totally admit, he’s not trying to say he never did anything wrong. Who gets it all right the first time?) & now. Today…I mean reading Eighmii’s post made think, & since reading that Shimmer’s into the ladies. Made remember the hotness to be quite honest. I mean, at first I felt so ashamed, weird, then confused. I’m coming to all of this realization within the past hour or two, so I haven’t yet talked to Dave about it. But I think I know where my disgust of his fantasy comes into play with me. I resisted because he wanted to be there. Whenever there were guys around in my past experiences with women, I associated them with just ‘showing off’ for guys’ attention.

I don’t want a threesome. I’ve always hated them. But if I were to ever do anything with a woman, I’d want it to be just her & I. Does that make me selfish? I can’t even believe I typed that. It’s been so long since I’ve thought anything along these lines. See what you fired up, Eighmii?

I don’t really feel a need or anything, like I need to kiss a girl really…but through the years, I’d be lying my ass off if I said I didn’t sort of miss the way a girl feels. That sense of excitement. But now it’s a new feeling of guilt because does that make me crappy b/c I don’t necessarily want to include my husband in it. Especially when I obviously hold the key (or at least am a big part of) his biggest fantasy? I can’t help that I just associate it with 2 girls that aren’t really into each other messing around so some guy can think it’s hot. I dunno…I’m confuzzled. Any insight?

 

[MsCuppyCakes]

Hi Devin, I'll PM you once I have formulated my thoughts. It's gonna be a long one too!

 

[Beauty Mark]

I already stated that I'm very into monogamy, no matter if my SO is male or female. I don't think it's unreasonable that he was upset you made out with someone else; different strokes for different folks. Like I said in the other thread, every couple has their definitions of cheating. How he handled it is what may or may not be unreasonable.

I personally would feel very off if someone asked me to do that. I'm not an exhibitionist when it comes to sex or sexual things, like making out; I like it private and don't want an audience. I don't think it's hypocrtical that he likes seeing two wome together if they aren't you and I don't think it's hypocritical that you don't want to be on display for him.

I don't know much about you, but this guy sounds like he has some issues with you and women. Would you going through with this make him paranoid and crazy? Would you be upset with him if you did this against your heart?

You aren't being selfish by not wanting to go through with it, because it makes you uncomfortable. It's a fantasy he has, it's not life-threatening

. People have tons of fantasies that aren't always fulfilled.

 

[eighmii]

Heh, I'm glad I brought back those feelings (and apologetic). Personally, I think all girls are bi. Some just don't realize it. I think the world would be a great place if EVERYONE loved ANYONE.. doesnt matter the sex.

Anywho,

Quote:

I’ve always not liked the term ‘bi’. To me, to be bisexual is when you can have the same exact relationship with a woman the way you can a man. I realize that most people’s definition is if you’re sexually attracted to both sexes then you’re automatically bisexual.

I used to think the exact same thing. I used to never be able to see myself actually having a relationship with a girl. But then two of my best friends/coworkers started dating. And then I started to realize that one didnt have to "be the guy" or anything. You can be two normal girls and go out and have a relationship. I still havent had a serious relationship with a girl, but I think I could now if anything ever happened and I became single.

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But now it’s a new feeling of guilt because does that make me crappy b/c I don’t necessarily want to include my husband in it. Especially when I obviously hold the key (or at least am a big part of) his biggest fantasy? I can’t help that I just associate it with 2 girls that aren’t really into each other messing around so some guy can think it’s hot. I dunno…I’m confuzzled. Any insight?

I HAVE THE EXACT SAME PROBLEM. My boyfriend says "If you ever want to have sex with a girl it better be in front of me. That would be so hot. But if you do it when I'm not there then its cheating" And I dont think thats fair. I want to be with a girl in private. Sober. And no penis involved. It takes away from the whole having sex WITH A GIRL thing.

And I agree about the doing it for attention thing. If I want to make out with a GIRL its because I want the GIRL. NOT the GUY. It makes perfect sense.

You shouldn't feel guilty for having these thoughts. You're not the only one. I'm sorry I don't have many answers, I'm going through the same problem =[

You should sit down and have a serious talk with your husband about it. Tell him how you feel. Be completely open and honest. Me and my boyfriend had this talk last night. He'll probabley start making shocked faces halfway through but don't stop talking til you get everything out. It feels a lot better to just let it all out and have him knowing completely how you feel.

My boyfriend said he needs time to think about it all. And were supposed to continue tonite before bed. (We let out all our deep thoughts late at night. We think better then.) And I'm gonna post about what happens.

Good luck. =] I hope it all works out okay. =]

 

[Shimmer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinGirl I don’t want a threesome. I’ve always hated them. But if I were to ever do anything with a woman, I’d want it to be just her & I. Does that make me selfish?

No, it doesn't.

I'm not saying your guy is this way, so I'll throw that codicile out there immediately, however, it's not uncommon for guys who have bi girlfriends to want to 'indulge' that particular fantasy.

Threesomes, honestly, suck. They can be fun, but no, mostly, they suck. And, the drama afterwards is never fun.

You're not being selfish in saying you don't want a threesome, because you're right, to a point, that it can (and often does) feel like putting on a 'show'...

Short story:
If you're not comfortable with it, don't do it. My sexuality was one of the sticking points in my first marriage, and it caused more problems (not because I acted on it, because I didn't...but because he wanted me to act on it for HIS benefit..which is just stupid), and I can honestly say it contributed to the demise of the marriage.

 

[DevinGirl]

Quote:

I already stated that I'm very into monogamy, no matter if my SO is male or female. I don't think it's unreasonable that he was upset you made out with someone else; different strokes for different folks. Like I said in the other thread, every couple has their definitions of cheating. How he handled it is what may or may not be unreasonable. I personally would feel very off if someone asked me to do that. I'm not an exhibitionist when it comes to sex or sexual things, like making out; I like it private and don't want an audience. I don't think it's hypocrtical that he likes seeing two wome together if they aren't you and I don't think it's hypocritical that you don't want to be on display for him. I don't know much about you, but this guy sounds like he has some issues with you and women. Would you going through with this make him paranoid and crazy? Would you be upset with him if you did this against your heart? You aren't being selfish by not wanting to go through with it, because it makes you uncomfortable. It's a fantasy he has, it's not life-threatening . People have tons of fantasies that aren't always fulfilled.

I’m actually very into monogamy as well. I love my husband. He’s the absolute light of my life as well as my son. I don’t feel like being by not being with a woman that I’m depriving myself of anything necessarily. I’m still leaning toward the whole “even if it’s with the same sex it’s still cheating” side of the fence. I don’t know if that’s of my own volition or b/c of what Dave told me initially. I’ve been married for four years so we’ve both still got plenty to figure out.

I don’t think it’s hypocritical that he likes seeing two women together if they aren’t me, either. What I meant by hypocritical was that initially threw such a huge fit at the beginning of our relationship about being with a woman was definitely cheating, and now he’s done a complete 360 on the matter. I mean in the back of my head, if it’s rational or not, I guess a little ‘hypocrite’ flag gets raised.

At the time when he found that picture of me & that girl ‘pecking’ while drunk at a bar. I understood why he was upset, I felt bad, & ashamed. Worse, b/c I couldn’t remember doing it. But NOW, he’s told me he’s realized that it was a mistake for him to act that way, b/c it’s not a big deal to him. I just feel like I get bent every which way from him sometimes. Sometime I don’t’ know what to think anymore.

Right now I can’t go through with it b/c it’s not something that I feel in my heart. So much has happened between the two of us that has bonded & forged us together. It’s not the right time, now – if ever…to chance potentially damaging our relationship (if that could ever happen).

You’re right, it’s not life-threatening. In the beginning of him voicing it to me, though…he made the HUGEST deal out of it. Making jokes, & sort of always throwing it in my face. Which, of course he’s apologize for now…but it was flung to my attention all of the time. So it made a bigger impact then, & unfortunately it was negative.

Things are better now & I plan on telling him my thoughts on the subject tonight. We’ll see how it goes. Thanks for the feedback!

 

[Shimmer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by eighmii Heh, I'm glad I brought back those feelings (and apologetic). Personally, I think all girls are bi. Some just don't realize it. I think the world would be a great place if EVERYONE loved ANYONE.. doesnt matter the sex. Anywho, [/color][/size][/font] I used to think the exact same thing. I used to never be able to see myself actually having a relationship with a girl. But then two of my best friends/coworkers started dating. And then I started to realize that one didnt have to "be the guy" or anything. You can be two normal girls and go out and have a relationship. I still havent had a serious relationship with a girl, but I think I could now if anything ever happened and I became single. I HAVE THE EXACT SAME PROBLEM. My boyfriend says "If you ever want to have sex with a girl it better be in front of me. That would be so hot. But if you do it when I'm not there then its cheating" And I dont think thats fair. I want to be with a girl in private. Sober. And no penis involved. It takes away from the whole having sex WITH A GIRL thing. And I agree about the doing it for attention thing. If I want to make out with a GIRL its because I want the GIRL. NOT the GUY. It makes perfect sense. You shouldn't feel guilty for having these thoughts. You're not the only one. I'm sorry I don't have many answers, I'm going through the same problem =[ You should sit down and have a serious talk with your husband about it. Tell him how you feel. Be completely open and honest. Me and my boyfriend had this talk last night. He'll probabley start making shocked faces halfway through but don't stop talking til you get everything out. It feels a lot better to just let it all out and have him knowing completely how you feel. My boyfriend said he needs time to think about it all. And were supposed to continue tonite before bed. (We let out all our deep thoughts late at night. We think better then.) And I'm gonna post about what happens. Good luck. =] I hope it all works out okay. =]

I so wish I knew what to say to this without sounding so militant and just aggravated, but I really don't. It's so frustrating to see guys do this.
Obviously, doing something outside the boundaries of the relationship is wrong, but...
exploiting someone and attempting to get them to do something they're not comfortable with is just as wrong.

urgh.

I'm going to have to think on this some more, or figure out how to articulate it without jabbing my keyboard to death. :/

 

[Beauty Mark]

Well, I personally find that kind of behavior from men exploitive when they know you don't like it, and I think it's a form of control.

Quote:

I’ve been married for four years so we’ve both still got plenty to figure out.

From what you've written, it sounds like he needs to figure out to think before he speaks, quit being so dramatic, and control his temper more. You know him, and I don't, but it sounds like has a lot of growing up to do.

 

[DevinGirl]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beauty Mark Well, I personally find that kind of behavior from men exploitive when they know you don't like it, and I think it's a form of control. From what you've written, it sounds like he needs to figure out to think before he speaks, quit being so dramatic, and control his temper more. You know him, and I don't, but it sounds like has a lot of growing up to do.

Yes, I know him. Even though he's made this "it's okay" transition, he really does see the err of his past ways. He understands the damage it did cause. He's gotten so upset with himself (rightfully so) & as I said apologized. Not that a simple verbal apology can undo all of the hurt, but it's helpful for me to see that he does understand that he really messed me up. He certainly by now knows that I'm not interested in a threesome & I've let him know that it's a fantasy. That's it. Being in a relationship is a tough road & for us it's been really hard. You deal with what life gives you the best you can. He's made me a better person, I've made him a better man, & we've enriched each other. I'm so grateful to be able to talk about this though. I haven't felt this good about this particular subject in a long time.

 

[eighmii]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beauty Mark Well, I personally find that kind of behavior from men exploitive when they know you don't like it, and I think it's a form of control.

That sorta makes it sound like hes forcing her to do it.. =/

In my case atleast, I haven't really told him that I don't want him involved in anything with me and another girl. I'm afraid its gonna come off as something like.. I want a relationship with another girl and I want you to have nothing to do with it.

Its kinda hard to just go tell your SO that you want to do sexual things with a girl, knowing thats gonna get him excited, but then tell him that he can't be involved.

I'm afraid of like, making him feel left out, or making him feel like I'm putting someone in front of him. They don't know what its like to like girls and guys, so they don't really understand how it would offend you when you want to be alone with another girl.. and not do it "just for fun" or "when youre drunk".

Sorry if none of this makes sense.. I'm thinking faster than I'm typing and I'm trying to get it all out clearly.

 

[Ms. Z]

Heh, I'm glad I brought back those feelings (and apologetic). Personally, I think all girls are bi. Some just don't realize it. I think the world would be a great place if EVERYONE loved ANYONE.. doesnt matter the sex. quote]

"Personally, I think all girls are bi.Some just don't realize it."
I find this humorous; I have only heard gay/bi people say that. I don't agree, while I can appreciate the beauty in women, I have never wanted to be sexually intimate in any way w/one, I can even go as far as to say that the straight people I know also don’t agree w/your statement.

 

[Beauty Mark]

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That sorta makes it sound like hes forcing her to do it.. =/

There's something to be said about emotionally manipulating a person, knowing how to make them feel guilty about something.

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I find this humorous; I have only heard gay/bi people say that. I don't agree, while I can appreciate the beauty in women, I have never wanted to be sexually intimate in any way w/one, I can even go as far as to say that the straight people I know also don’t agree w/your statement.

I don't think everyone has gay tendencies or urges, either. I do believe in the Kinsey scale, though, which means there are a lot of mixed people.

 

[DevinGirl]

Quote:

Originally Posted by eighmii That sorta makes it sound like hes forcing her to do it.. =/ In my case atleast, I haven't really told him that I don't want him involved in anything with me and another girl. I'm afraid its gonna come off as something like.. I want a relationship with another girl and I want you to have nothing to do with it. Its kinda hard to just go tell your SO that you want to do sexual things with a girl, knowing thats gonna get him excited, but then tell him that he can't be involved. I'm afraid of like, making him feel left out, or making him feel like I'm putting someone in front of him. They don't know what its like to like girls and guys, so they don't really understand how it would offend you when you want to be alone with another girl.. and not do it "just for fun" or "when youre drunk". Sorry if none of this makes sense.. I'm thinking faster than I'm typing and I'm trying to get it all out clearly.

Yeah...Dave’s not forcing me to do anything

His power of subtlety was a bit…much is all. I haven’t really thought about the whole situation (with the exception of today), much less told him…that if I were to do something w/ another woman – that I’d want it to be on my own terms (probably just the 2 of us). It’s hard because I know that I’m a large part of his fantasy…& I’ve actually DONE what he’s fantasized about … a lot & now if I ever do it again…I don’t want him to be a part of it. It’s just a tough situation. I’m afraid of offending him as well…but I know it won’t stop me from being open & honest with him either. I guess that’s just it…I want it to be MY thing. At my own terms, y’know? It was hard for it to feel like it was MY thing when I was being influenced & almost given instruction. Don’t’worry, you’re making perfect sense, Eighmii

 

[eighmii]

Quote:

Originally Posted by eighmii Heh, I'm glad I brought back those feelings (and apologetic). Personally, I think all girls are bi. Some just don't realize it. I think the world would be a great place if EVERYONE loved ANYONE.. doesnt matter the sex. quote] "Personally, I think all girls are bi.Some just don't realize it." I find this humorous; I have only heard gay/bi people say that. I don't agree, while I can appreciate the beauty in women, I have never wanted to be sexually intimate in any way w/one, I can even go as far as to say that the straight people I know also don’t agree w/your statement.

That was meant jokingly.. By that I just meant that a lot of girls will do things with girls, and they enjoy it. Guys dont go out and get drunk and make out with other guys. Nor do they enjoy guy/guy porn. They don't call each other hot. That was all I meant. I wasnt calling you gay or anything..

 

[DevinGirl]

Quote:

That was meant jokingly.. By that I just meant that a lot of girls will do things with girls, and they enjoy it. Guys dont go out and get drunk and make out with other guys. Nor do they enjoy guy/guy porn. They don't call each other hot. That was all I meant. I wasnt calling you gay or anything..

I agree so much with this. Dave & I will talk about how more socially acceptable it is for women to be bi or whatever (usually as long as the 2 women are good-looking). You never see a 'guys gone wild' with nothing but dudes getting drunk & making out...

 

[Beauty Mark]

It isn't socially acceptable, because to some men, it's emasculating to sleep with another guy.

It's kind of funny, though, because guys have their own weird ways of showing physical affection, like play wrestling or huge wedgies on other guys. The latter always bewilders me that it's okay to stick your hand down some guy's pants and touch his naked ass, just to pull up his underwear

 

[Raerae]

Quote:

Originally Posted by eighmii Heh, I'm glad I brought back those feelings (and apologetic). Personally, I think all girls are bi. Some just don't realize it. I think the world would be a great place if EVERYONE loved ANYONE.. doesnt matter the sex. quote] "Personally, I think all girls are bi.Some just don't realize it." I find this humorous; I have only heard gay/bi people say that. I don't agree, while I can appreciate the beauty in women, I have never wanted to be sexually intimate in any way w/one, I can even go as far as to say that the straight people I know also don’t agree w/your statement.

I dont think all girls are bi eigther. I think that our society as a whole places less restrictions/judgement on girls, as long as they are "attractive." Which is basically just letting pretty women act out the male fantasy of girl on girl + them, which is why it's not judged as much. This in turn allows more women as whole to feel more confortable about that type of expierence. Not to mention how easy it is to blame it on, "being drunk," even if you aren't.

I dont think sexuality is Strait, Gay, and Bi. There are SO many shades of grey, that I think it's impossible to classify anyone under one specific label. Sure some people might be at the extreme end or exact middle. But there is just as many in between. So while many girls (and guys, it's just not as socially acceptable) may be bi, or open to a bi expierence, there are also those who are going to be 100% turned off by the idea.

 

[Raerae]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beauty Mark It isn't socially acceptable, because to some men, it's emasculating to sleep with another guy. It's kind of funny, though, because guys have their own weird ways of showing physical affection, like play wrestling or huge wedgies on other guys. The latter always bewilders me that it's okay to stick your hand down some guy's pants and touch his naked ass, just to pull up his underwear

HAHA... So funny.. We have so many silly photo's of our "strait" friends most who are in comitted relationships, being "play gay" on all of their friends. Pretending to bend their best friend over and go at it, reaching around from behind and grabbing each others nipples, making out with a hand between them. Only happens when their drunk thuogh LOL.

 

[Ms. Z]

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Originally Posted by ZLoves2Shop Not to mention how easy it is to blame it on, "being drunk," even if you aren't. I dont think sexuality is Strait, Gay, and Bi. There are SO many shades of grey, that I think it's impossible to classify anyone under one specific label. Sure some people might be at the extreme end or exact middle. But there is just as many in between. So while many girls (and guys, it's just not as socially acceptable) may be bi, or open to a bi expierence, there are also those who are going to be 100% turned off by the idea.

I am curious about this many shades of gray (I think someone else on this site wrote this in the past), I just want to be informed.

There is straight (if you strictly like the opposite sex), gay (if you strictly like only your own sex), bi (those who like male & female) & then their are sexual deviants (people involved w/children *worst criminals of them all, animals, corpse and objects, etc.)

It is possible to label everyone, as long as they are honest & admit what there interest are.

 

[eighmii]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZLoves2Shop I am curious about this many shades of gray (I think someone else on this site wrote this in the past), I just want to be informed. There is straight (if you strictly like the opposite sex), gay (if you strictly like only your own sex), bi (those who like male & female) & then their are sexual deviants (people involved w/children *worst criminals of them all, animals, corpse and objects, etc.) It is possible to label everyone, as long as they are honest & admit what there interest are.

I disagree. There are people who are basically straight but have sex with the same sex occasionally "in the heat of the moment", There are people who like to have sex with the same sex but would not want to date them, and so on.

I used to not consider myself bi when I was even younger because I could never see myself dating girls, I just wanted to do sexual things with girls.

There are shades of grey.