Death Sentences

[Chic 2k6]

Mods, if you want to remove this topic, do so.

What's your opinions on Death Sentences? Here in the UK we dont have death sentences, the last person to be hanged was in the 60s sometimes.

Do you think its right or wrong? IMO its a mixture of both but in the past people were wrongfully hanged for something they never did, but with technology and proper trials of today to make the trail fair, what would you say about it?

I know it still happens in places like Texas US, Eastern Europe like Isreael, Turkey, Saudi Arabia etc..

I'm not trying to cause a contriversal arguments here, i'm just interested in people's opinions as I studied this topic in Religious Education.

here's one case that happened 13 years ago.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Bulger the Jamie Bulger story, read what happened on bottom of the webpage then read the top part of the webpage, for what those boys did, they should be sentenced to death.

How can a 10 year old boys be released and given new lives and identity but a grown up man would be jailed for the rest of his life? I dont think that's fair really, the boys would've known what they were doing.

 

[Lady_MAC]

I love my Dad's button, that he has put up in the living room : "Why do we kill people to show them that killing people is wrong?" I love it. I find the death penalty ridiculously hypocritical and expensive. I agree with whoever said to make their jail sentences horrible rather than letting them off the hook by killing them. If someone were to ever hurt my child, I would rather have them rot in jail vs. the death penalty.

 

[Shimmer]

Quite frankly when there's guilt without a shadow of a doubt, light them up.

 

[Beauty Mark]

I'm torn on this. The death penalty is expensive (because of all the extra trials it involves of the criminals fighting it), isn't fairly delivered, and prisoners do have it fairly easy in prison. In the US, I always feel that we treat our criminals better than our homeless. Some of them don't deserve hard punishments, but others do.

However, if there's no sign of remorse, guilt, or semi-understandable reason, I'm in principle okay with the death penalty. I wish rapists would get charged with it or have harsher punishments than they do.

 

[Hawkeye]

My veiws are very straightforward. I do strongly believe in the death sentence. Here are my thoughts as to why:

1) If you have someone already killing people or serial killers or anything that involves children-then they are too far gone to try to rehabilitate them. They will not and cannot come back to society as a law abiding citizen.

2) We have over crowding in jails. The more we enforce the death penalty I have a suspicion that that the problems will slowly come to a stop. Because they will know that we aren't just joking around. Plus it will free up jail space.

3) I do have a tendency to think many criminals get off with a slap on the wrist due to age, to mental state etc. I can understand with children (below the age of 6) but that's a big problem. We always think " Oh its ok he's so mentally unstable he had no clue" well quite frankly he did (and don't even get me started about the mother who killed her 5 kids and got off scott free!)

I think for me personally its a sign of holding someone accountable. Here in the US we do not hold anyone accountable. We say we do but we don't. It's about how much money you have, how much prestige etc. And we're letting these criminals live and they are growing like a cancer on our society and we're looking away trying to rationalize them but the cold hard truth is we can't rationalize with these people. We can't rehabilitate them, people say we can let some guy from death row off chances are he'll be back there within a years time.

Now I know this is one of those things that I seem to be contradicting myself on. As I simply do not under any circumstances think people should be let off the hook. There was a situation in texas a while back where someone was on death row and screamed she became a christian and what not and she appealed and appealed and tried to get to the governor for a pardon and the governor just said, " I can't decide if you are innocent or not, only a higher power can". Or something to that affect.

And the truth is, society doesn't stop this cancer we need to. And we need to let a higher power decide the final judgement.

Now do I believe there should be a THROUGH investigation where there is absolutely no doubt in anyones mind that the person involved is infact guilty? YES. They MUST have a through investigation.

Other than that, I strongly support the death penalty.

 

[user79]

I'm against the death penalty because it's legitimating violence and murder, which is exactly what you are trying to prevent. Also, death penalties have been shown to have no effect in deterring future criminals, so there's really no point to them besides killing someone. I also think a society can be judged on how it treats its most heinous criminals, and by giving them a death penalty it shows that society is no better than the criminal himself.

 

[Shimmer]

Actually:
The execution is not violent.

 

[user79]

Death by state legitimation is legalized violence. How is killing someone not a violent act, even if it is done in "gentle" way, like injecting? It is ending someone's life, you are taking the right to end someone else's life. To me that is the highest form of violence that can exist.

 

[Shimmer]

*shrug*
I see no problem with it.

 

[Shimmer]

These men deserve to live?

 

[user79]

Another thing is that there's always cases where people on death row did not have a fair trial, or were too poor to afford a good lawyer who could have gotten them a reduced sentence. The US justice system isn't exaclty known for it's fairness overall. If you have money you can afford a top lawyer. I mean look at OJ Simpson, he got away with murder most likely because he had a team of defence lawyers working for him. If it was another person, a poor person who could not afford the same legal services who had killed someone, where would he end up? Most likely not walking free...

There's also been cases where people on death row who were executed were later deemed innocent because of new facts being discovered on the case, or because of DNA testing, or something. Even if 1 innocent person is killed "by accident" with the death penalty, isn't that enough reason to end it? Or is that 1 life not worth enough?


I think no matter how heinous a crime was committed, that is almost irrelevant because I'm against the underlying philosophical and moral ramifications of execution. I think NO ONE has the right to take anyone's life, not even the state. Lock him up forever and never let such a criminal be released again, sure, but it is in no one's right to end anyone's life. If we do that, we are no better than the killer, who we must stand above.

 

[Shimmer]

I didn't say it was perfect, and in fact, I said that only in cases where there was NO DOUBT.

 

[pumpkincat210]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chic 2k6 Mods, if you want to remove this topic, do so. I know it still happens in places like Texas US, Eastern Europe like Isreael, Turkey, Saudi Arabia etc.

Texas isnt the only state in the U.S. that has the death penalty..many others do too, but Texas puts the most people down of any state. (15 this year so far last time i checked!)

 

[meagannn]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shimmer Quite frankly when there's guilt without a shadow of a doubt, light them up.

I agree. Beyond a shadow of a doubt, like, when someone says 'Yeah i brutally raped and murdered that 10 year old girl.'

Why waste the money on keeping his sorry ass alive till he croaks? I know *I* dont want to pay for his food, clothing, etc. I dont know about everywhere else, but here in Texas our prisons are crowded enough as it is, and we, the taxpayers, have to pay for that.

 

[pumpkincat210]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shimmer Actually: The execution is not violent.

Actually lethal injection is not as serene as it sounds. Alot of time the people are so up on adrenaline the sedatives they give you first aren't enough. When they give you the actual death drug you may gasp for air and be paralyzed from the one of the drugs they gave but still be aware of what is going on for 7 minutes. That would be tortuous.

There are too many gaps and unfair rulings for us or anyone in the world to use this as a form of punishment.

 

[Hawkeye]

Mischieveious, as much as I would want to agree with you, I can't. We can determine how our society lives and the moral values of how we treat our most heineious criminals because those that treat them with a hug and a kiss and say oh its ok - I will be brutally honest, I dont want to go to that country. Because my thought process is if they are letting a criminal live who has indeed gone on a raping spree just for the pure hell of it what does it say about the society?

To me personally its telling me that the government doesn't care enough about the citizens to try to bring justice. I truely think there are times where we must say that if there is a higher power then let it be the judge of the after life.

With a society that says we wont tolerate this we're putting a stop to this now with the death penalty, it tells me that at least the government cares enough about the safety of the people.

Another thing you noted that is interesting is that many times the people are too poor to hire a better defense team. Well yes I will give you that but I will also suggest that its no excuse. I almost want to say the poverty thing is one of the biggest reasons society doesn't want to use the death penalty. Heres why-I believe that every american regardless of class can climb up the social ladder and earn more money. Don't believe me? Ask my dad. His family was dirt poor to the point they were living in a cardboard house. His father said I dont care what it takes my kids will get out of this. He did what it took and they were able to rent houses. My dad said I see this situation im living in, I'm getting out of this. He worked his ass off to get through pharmacy school. Seeing as how my father did this, I do have a tendency to not go along with the whole "oh i'm poor so I can't get anything" mentality. That being said, I understand while you are in jail you cannot make money. So why not start calling some friends up?

So to me personally the poverty thing just doesn't hold water.

and pumpkin brought up a good point-but my thought is-if there is a guy who went out and murdered people- then good those last 7 minutes can be reflection on what his victims went through. And they didn't have a choice.

So thats just what I think

 

[Tyester]

For execution, if isn't because it IS justifiable, then simply because it's a serious waste of taxpayer dollars. I work hard for my $$$ and a good chunk of it get's raped away from me every 2 weeks.

And I don't remember the correct figure, but here in Texas it costs somewhere around $20,000 to feed, clothe, and house a prisoner here for just 1 year. I'd rather my money go to a crooked politician who's going to blow it on booze and hookers. At least that would make for an interesting news story.

 

[Hawkeye]

ITA Tyster. I mean how much money are we losing because someone decided they would be a badas*?

It's just ridiculous

 

[Beauty Mark]

I disagree with the "working your way out of poverty." I don't think you should stop from working hard, but some people cannot escape their poverty. You can, it's possible, but so is a lot of other things that are possible do not happen. Your father is fortunate. I've seen people work their way out of poverty, but I've seen people stuck in it. Sometimes, it is laziness that has people stuck there. Sometimes, it's crappy luck.

You can't always rely on your family and friends; that's why there are homeless Veterans. Even so, your friends may not have the money to help. If I were convicted of a crime, I could beg every single friend of mine, have them donate, and still not have enough for a decent lawyer.

In any case, money, even indirectly, should never be a factor of whether you're convicted and what kind of sentencing you receive.

Quote:

Originally Posted by youbeabitch Another thing you noted that is interesting is that many times the people are too poor to hire a better defense team. Well yes I will give you that but I will also suggest that its no excuse. I almost want to say the poverty thing is one of the biggest reasons society doesn't want to use the death penalty. Heres why-I believe that every american regardless of class can climb up the social ladder and earn more money. Don't believe me? Ask my dad. His family was dirt poor to the point they were living in a cardboard house. His father said I dont care what it takes my kids will get out of this. He did what it took and they were able to rent houses. My dad said I see this situation im living in, I'm getting out of this. He worked his ass off to get through pharmacy school. Seeing as how my father did this, I do have a tendency to not go along with the whole "oh i'm poor so I can't get anything" mentality. That being said, I understand while you are in jail you cannot make money. So why not start calling some friends up? So to me personally the poverty thing just doesn't hold water.

 

[mzcelaneous]

I, too, am torn Chic 2k6. I understand both sides and IMO, there's no "right" justification on either end.