Deneuve wears fur?
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Hawkeye
Well-known member
So you can see how silly that statement is? but like I said it's not about politics because it's 2 totally seperate entities (I was just using that to drive a point about how absurd some of these statements can be)
Sometimes I really wonder if people actually sit there and look at all perspectives before making such statements. I mean you sit and you listen to these people-with politics, with makeup with everything and you wonder. I mean see as soon as I threw up GWB I got a reaction from SOMEONE and that's what a lot of people are looking for with this whole "I'm not going to buy anything or whatever from this collection or whatever thing a person is apart of" to me. It's no different then me saying (even though I'm conservative) that because my best friend is liberal I don't want anything to do with her! But if you look at it, we're both good people and we get along fine. I mean that's whats so hard for me-and the only way I can express it is through politics because that's another thing people are VERY opinionated about but where a lot of people can see the absurdity of some of these statements.
Where in this situation with CD and MAC you have 2 different entities, a famous person and a makeup line both have their faults. CD likes to wear fur and MAC makes crappy foundation (in my opinion) but regardless they bring out the best of each other. That's how my best friend and I are. I guess I just dont understand how someone could flat out refuse to buy something that has a picture of one person who has a flaw but I'm sure has done a lot more than just bought fur all her life.
It's a philosophy I will never understand (and I really am trying to!) and I really do appreciate Pucci for being so sweet and trying to explain it to me
I do respect her opinion and I hope I will one day be able to understand it.
Sometimes I really wonder if people actually sit there and look at all perspectives before making such statements. I mean you sit and you listen to these people-with politics, with makeup with everything and you wonder. I mean see as soon as I threw up GWB I got a reaction from SOMEONE and that's what a lot of people are looking for with this whole "I'm not going to buy anything or whatever from this collection or whatever thing a person is apart of" to me. It's no different then me saying (even though I'm conservative) that because my best friend is liberal I don't want anything to do with her! But if you look at it, we're both good people and we get along fine. I mean that's whats so hard for me-and the only way I can express it is through politics because that's another thing people are VERY opinionated about but where a lot of people can see the absurdity of some of these statements.
Where in this situation with CD and MAC you have 2 different entities, a famous person and a makeup line both have their faults. CD likes to wear fur and MAC makes crappy foundation (in my opinion) but regardless they bring out the best of each other. That's how my best friend and I are. I guess I just dont understand how someone could flat out refuse to buy something that has a picture of one person who has a flaw but I'm sure has done a lot more than just bought fur all her life.
It's a philosophy I will never understand (and I really am trying to!) and I really do appreciate Pucci for being so sweet and trying to explain it to me
Hawkeye
Well-known member
OK before this gets even further off topic hehehe
I'm no help i know this
Instead of the tactics peta uses why don't some of the girls here who feel really strongly about this-other than not buying the collection (which again we wont go there) why dont you all write letters of disapproval to mac? I mean I dunno that's what I would do if I felt that strongly about something. *shrugs*
Instead of the tactics peta uses why don't some of the girls here who feel really strongly about this-other than not buying the collection (which again we wont go there) why dont you all write letters of disapproval to mac? I mean I dunno that's what I would do if I felt that strongly about something. *shrugs*
jenjunsan
Well-known member
Quote:
Okay, see...if only congress could talk it out like us.. BUT you were the one who brought up politics and yes you got a rise from ME. I understand your point that you can be friends with someone who has different political views than you and I am also the same way. The majority of my friends are republicans, and I still love them, but that doesn't mean I have to agree with them. But that in no way has anything to do with the subject at hand. NO point of view is absurb...we live in the USA and we have the right to believe what we want. (Not that you stated otherwise). However, I personally do not agree with the killing or wearing of animals, so it is my choice not to buy from this line and I have not.
| Originally Posted by youbeabitch Sometimes I really wonder if people actually sit there and look at all perspectives before making such statements. I mean you sit and you listen to these people-with politics, with makeup with everything and you wonder. I mean see as soon as I threw up GWB I got a reaction from SOMEONE and that's what a lot of people are looking for with this whole "I'm not going to buy anything or whatever from this collection or whatever thing a person is apart of" to me. It's no different then me saying (even though I'm conservative) that because my best friend is liberal I don't want anything to do with her! But if you look at it, we're both good people and we get along fine. I mean that's whats so hard for me-and the only way I can express it is through politics because that's another thing people are VERY opinionated about but where a lot of people can see the absurdity of some of these statements. |
Okay, see...if only congress could talk it out like us.. BUT you were the one who brought up politics and yes you got a rise from ME. I understand your point that you can be friends with someone who has different political views than you and I am also the same way. The majority of my friends are republicans, and I still love them, but that doesn't mean I have to agree with them. But that in no way has anything to do with the subject at hand. NO point of view is absurb...we live in the USA and we have the right to believe what we want. (Not that you stated otherwise). However, I personally do not agree with the killing or wearing of animals, so it is my choice not to buy from this line and I have not.
Pushpa
Well-known member
i have no problem with ppl wearing fur and i personaly think organizations like PETA are extreme and the just hurt their cause i can't stand these ppl...i don't agree with animal testing and what not but when it is all said and done i won't stop buying leather and i am hindu for gosh sake...i just like fur leather and chicken i can't help it
Hawkeye
Well-known member
Jenjunson-
LOL Congress is a joke. You gotta wonder about those folks up there. They can't talk anything out! ROFLMAO. OK thanks for that I needed to laugh today-too many tests to worry about over here
OK yes I did bring up politics because this is a very sensitive topic that is very familiar (if you will) to politics/abortion/religion anything. It's something people feel strongly about or they just dont give a rip and sometimes people (in my opinion) dont see it unless they see something that may be familiar to them....ok whatever...we all get the point now
OK back to the post- see you understand what I'm trying to get at. That's a good thing. And it's true no opinion is absurd (though I do think some statements are but then again-that just what makes life fun to laugh at right? hehe sorry its 3 AM)
And as with Pucci (by the way I love that name it's a fun name
it's fun to type) I still don't understand it but I do respect that you don't want to buy from the line for personal moral and ethical reasons
it'll just be one of those things we can shake hands and say we can agree to disagree with that. (however-i can't blame you but not because of the fur thing-I just didnt like the colors)
LOL Congress is a joke. You gotta wonder about those folks up there. They can't talk anything out! ROFLMAO. OK thanks for that I needed to laugh today-too many tests to worry about over here
OK back to the post- see you understand what I'm trying to get at. That's a good thing. And it's true no opinion is absurd (though I do think some statements are but then again-that just what makes life fun to laugh at right? hehe sorry its 3 AM)
And as with Pucci (by the way I love that name it's a fun name
Corvs Queen
Well-known member
Quote:
Word. 8)
| Originally Posted by jenjunsan Why do you assume that someone defending animals defends Genocidal warloard and Al Qaeda? I support neither. As far as your argument about diamond, the men who harvest them have a choice. The CHOOSE to do that as a job. The animals do not CHOOSE to sacrafice their life! How can you even compare the two? That is just rediculous! |
Word. 8)
Corvs Queen
Well-known member
Eating? Yes, skinning alive just to wear and be "in fashion"? A big HELL NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Think of it this way, what if we were not at the top of the food chain. What if we were thought of as lions are tought of and they were thought of as humans. Are telling me that it would still be satisfactory if the lion wanted to skin our babies to make rugs and coats?
Think of it this way, what if we were not at the top of the food chain. What if we were thought of as lions are tought of and they were thought of as humans. Are telling me that it would still be satisfactory if the lion wanted to skin our babies to make rugs and coats?
pucci
Well-known member
Quote:
But we also have the intellegence to survive without doing so.
Thankyou everyone for your great arguments, you are way more eloquent than me!
I guess I meant CD lost any potential of respect from me (I'm sure she'll be heart-broken
)
| Originally Posted by Pimptress i would wrap myself in a fur coat while eating a large steak in leather pants eating other animals for food is human nature |
But we also have the intellegence to survive without doing so.
Thankyou everyone for your great arguments, you are way more eloquent than me!
I guess I meant CD lost any potential of respect from me (I'm sure she'll be heart-broken
shriekingviolet
Well-known member
Quote:
Choose to do that job huh? First of all, do you think it's only the people working in the mines that are suffering because of the diamond industry? They're not. It's everyone around them. And as for choice, I think in most cases, it's a choice between having a job and not having a job, not "I'm choosing to mine rather than to work on a farm." Diamonds are mined in some of the poorest areas of the world, it's not a choice. No one chooses to be paid pennies a day to work in terrible conditions. And that's if they get paid. Slavery is not dead all over the word, and diamonds have real connections to present day slavery. Many of the jobs of polishing diamonds are filled by many children sold into bondage to pay off the debts of their parents or children conscripted by diamond barons. Is that a choice?
People can be helpless too. Animals are far from the only ones subject to exploitation and they're not the only ones who have few people speaking up for their rights. People can be forced either by physical means, intimidation or economic means. Work or die shouldn't be considered much more of a choice than what a mink grown to make a coat has. At the very least, they don't starve the minks.
I'm not saying that one is necessarily worse than the other or that there's anything wrong with having animal welfare in the fashion industry be your pet cause over human rights violations for fashion, but I think it's ignorant and callous to write off what people can go through as less, chosen and therefore justifiable. Especially when the "choice" we enjoy in western society isn't enjoyed by a huge chunk of the world. And I don't think the issue here is whether or not you support diamonds, it's that people seem to get less outraged by the idea of where them. Which is very sad.
| Originally Posted by jenjunsan As far as your argument about diamond, the men who harvest them have a choice. The CHOOSE to do that as a job. The animals do not CHOOSE to sacrafice their life! How can you even compare the two? That is just rediculous! |
Choose to do that job huh? First of all, do you think it's only the people working in the mines that are suffering because of the diamond industry? They're not. It's everyone around them. And as for choice, I think in most cases, it's a choice between having a job and not having a job, not "I'm choosing to mine rather than to work on a farm." Diamonds are mined in some of the poorest areas of the world, it's not a choice. No one chooses to be paid pennies a day to work in terrible conditions. And that's if they get paid. Slavery is not dead all over the word, and diamonds have real connections to present day slavery. Many of the jobs of polishing diamonds are filled by many children sold into bondage to pay off the debts of their parents or children conscripted by diamond barons. Is that a choice?
People can be helpless too. Animals are far from the only ones subject to exploitation and they're not the only ones who have few people speaking up for their rights. People can be forced either by physical means, intimidation or economic means. Work or die shouldn't be considered much more of a choice than what a mink grown to make a coat has. At the very least, they don't starve the minks.
I'm not saying that one is necessarily worse than the other or that there's anything wrong with having animal welfare in the fashion industry be your pet cause over human rights violations for fashion, but I think it's ignorant and callous to write off what people can go through as less, chosen and therefore justifiable. Especially when the "choice" we enjoy in western society isn't enjoyed by a huge chunk of the world. And I don't think the issue here is whether or not you support diamonds, it's that people seem to get less outraged by the idea of where them. Which is very sad.
Pimptress
Well-known member
Quote:
speak for yourself! i'd rather die than give up cheeseburgers for life!
the only reason i'd ever give up eating meat is if i wanted to lose a significant amount of weight, very quickly. because a lot of meat is fattening, fo shizzle, and the vegetarian diet would cause me to become more or less anorexic.
i'm not pro veganism and i'm not pro religion and i'm not pro life so that basically means that a lot of very opinionated people very much dislike my opinions on things, so i generally just say one liners about the subject and let it at that. so i'll let it at this. i don't own fur, but i would, for warmth not fashion, yet i'd probably sell it if it was handed to me because i'd rather have the money. i own leather, which is beautiful and i love. i will never stop eating meat. and the only thing that will ever bother me on this subject is people being judgemental of others based on how they personally feel. personal opinions are just that, personal. leave them personal, don't push it on other people. =/
| Originally Posted by pucci But we also have the intellegence to survive without doing so. Thankyou everyone for your great arguments, you are way more eloquent than me! I guess I meant CD lost any potential of respect from me (I'm sure she'll be heart-broken
|
speak for yourself! i'd rather die than give up cheeseburgers for life!
i'm not pro veganism and i'm not pro religion and i'm not pro life so that basically means that a lot of very opinionated people very much dislike my opinions on things, so i generally just say one liners about the subject and let it at that. so i'll let it at this. i don't own fur, but i would, for warmth not fashion, yet i'd probably sell it if it was handed to me because i'd rather have the money. i own leather, which is beautiful and i love. i will never stop eating meat. and the only thing that will ever bother me on this subject is people being judgemental of others based on how they personally feel. personal opinions are just that, personal. leave them personal, don't push it on other people. =/
pucci
Well-known member
Quote:
Do you have any links you could post so I can read about this pleeease
| Originally Posted by shriekingviolet Choose to do that job huh? First of all, do you think it's only the people working in the mines that are suffering because of the diamond industry? They're not. It's everyone around them. And as for choice, I think in most cases, it's a choice between having a job and not having a job, not "I'm choosing to mine rather than to work on a farm." Diamonds are mined in some of the poorest areas of the world, it's not a choice. No one chooses to be paid pennies a day to work in terrible conditions. And that's if they get paid. Slavery is not dead all over the word, and diamonds have real connections to present day slavery. Many of the jobs of polishing diamonds are filled by many children sold into bondage to pay off the debts of their parents or children conscripted by diamond barons. Is that a choice? People can be helpless too. Animals are far from the only ones subject to exploitation and they're not the only ones who have few people speaking up for their rights. People can be forced either by physical means, intimidation or economic means. Work or die shouldn't be considered much more of a choice than what a mink grown to make a coat has. At the very least, they don't starve the minks. I'm not saying that one is necessarily worse than the other or that there's anything wrong with having animal welfare in the fashion industry be your pet cause over human rights violations for fashion, but I think it's ignorant and callous to write off what people can go through as less, chosen and therefore justifiable. Especially when the "choice" we enjoy in western society isn't enjoyed by a huge chunk of the world. And I don't think the issue here is whether or not you support diamonds, it's that people seem to get less outraged by the idea of where them. Which is very sad. |
Do you have any links you could post so I can read about this pleeease
pucci
Well-known member
Quote:
I don't see how discussing it is pushing it on anyone. I think a little debate on these sort of issues is good for you. Especially when the debate is in a forum such as specktra- you can choose to participate or not to, it's not like I'm harrassing you in the street.
| Originally Posted by Pimptress speak for yourself! i'd rather die than give up cheeseburgers for life!
i'm not pro veganism and i'm not pro religion and i'm not pro life so that basically means that a lot of very opinionated people very much dislike my opinions on things, so i generally just say one liners about the subject and let it at that. so i'll let it at this. i don't own fur, but i would, for warmth not fashion, yet i'd probably sell it if it was handed to me because i'd rather have the money. i own leather, which is beautiful and i love. i will never stop eating meat. and the only thing that will ever bother me on this subject is people being judgemental of others based on how they personally feel. personal opinions are just that, personal. leave them personal, don't push it on other people. =/ |
I don't see how discussing it is pushing it on anyone. I think a little debate on these sort of issues is good for you. Especially when the debate is in a forum such as specktra- you can choose to participate or not to, it's not like I'm harrassing you in the street.
ruby_soho
Well-known member
For the topic of diamonds and miners having a choice, diamond mines in developping countries are staffed by individuals who are living in poverty. Much of the countries that are rich in diamonds were former colonies, natives worked to develop and mine the land and mother countries took much of the benefits. Colonies were often decolonized rapidly, native countries weren't told how to run their country, nothing was implemented to transition from colony to independent state. Political parties changed frequently due to coups, economies basically nose dived because of political leaders pocketing the nations funds, no education or health care. Unstable governments ties into social conflict and civil war, where "blood diamonds" stem from. Parties in civil war would mine the diamonds and illicitly sell them to companies in order to fund their part in a civil war. So clearly workers in these situations do not have a choice. I'm not saying all diamonds originate from these situations, but under the circumstances that it was originally brought up in, these are the conditions of their work.
As for fur, I would never wear it. I eat meat, but fur gives me the heebie jeebies to say the least. I can't touch it, it makes me shudder.
PS: I'm not articulate
As for fur, I would never wear it. I eat meat, but fur gives me the heebie jeebies to say the least. I can't touch it, it makes me shudder.
PS: I'm not articulate
Pimptress
Well-known member
Quote:
hey, you're not harassing me at all. i don't even know what your stance on it is, to be honest with you.. or anyone's, i didn't read this thread that closely.. nor do i really care, because it won't change my life in one way or another depending on how the members of specktra feel.
i do think it's just silly to boycott mac's CD line because of one of their "models" so to speak chooses to live her life in a certain way. the way she lives her own life isn't endorsed or publicized by mac, so why boycott mac? but hey, to each his or her own.
| Originally Posted by pucci I don't see how discussing it is pushing it on anyone. I think a little debate on these sort of issues is good for you. Especially when the debate is in a forum such as specktra- you can choose to participate or not to, it's not like I'm harrassing you in the street. |
hey, you're not harassing me at all. i don't even know what your stance on it is, to be honest with you.. or anyone's, i didn't read this thread that closely.. nor do i really care, because it won't change my life in one way or another depending on how the members of specktra feel.
i do think it's just silly to boycott mac's CD line because of one of their "models" so to speak chooses to live her life in a certain way. the way she lives her own life isn't endorsed or publicized by mac, so why boycott mac? but hey, to each his or her own.
shriekingviolet
Well-known member
Quote:
Sure! Books are the best source of information (Blood Diamonds and Glitter & Greed are both good titles) of course, but there are a few good pages on the internet to get you started. Here are some links:
The United Nations' page on Conflict Diamonds (warning here: this page contains on image on the top of the page of a little boy with both of his hands cut off)
Blood Diamonds Are For Never (highly recommended)
Globalpolicy.org's page on Conflict Diamonds
Ten Reasons Why You Should Never Accept A Diamond Ring From Anyone (reasons 4-10 particularly important, good quick primer with some links for further reading)
Tribe.net on Conflict Diamonds (warning: another picture of a guy with on of his limbs cut off.
)
On Diamonds and Slavery
Also I should mention that the movie Lord of War, which was just released on DVD, touches on the issue of conflict diamonds, so is a good primer if you don't feel like reading. The movie itself isn't about diamonds (but you do see them several times offered as payment and the main character talks about the concept of Conflict Diamonds), but all of the scenes set in Africa (which are both disturbing and heartbreaking) give you a fairly good idea of what is made possible by diamonds and the wars fought over them. The wars shown couldn't continue the way they do without the diamond trade, something that's been recognized by the UN Security Council.
Reading about the atrocities related to conflict diamonds are a really terrible and ugly glimpse into the kind of cruelty man can perpetrate against one another, and how the market (i.e. us) can encourage such brutality. What goes on in Africa now is some of the worst mankind has witnessed. I have a friend who has a morbid fascination with reading accounts of the Holocaust, and she says that reading a UN sponsored report of some of the Sierra Leone blood diamond attrocities is the most nightmare inducing thing she's ever read. It's truly horrifying beyond description.
| Originally Posted by pucci Do you have any links you could post so I can read about this pleeease
|
Sure! Books are the best source of information (Blood Diamonds and Glitter & Greed are both good titles) of course, but there are a few good pages on the internet to get you started. Here are some links:
The United Nations' page on Conflict Diamonds (warning here: this page contains on image on the top of the page of a little boy with both of his hands cut off)
Blood Diamonds Are For Never (highly recommended)
Globalpolicy.org's page on Conflict Diamonds
Ten Reasons Why You Should Never Accept A Diamond Ring From Anyone (reasons 4-10 particularly important, good quick primer with some links for further reading)
Tribe.net on Conflict Diamonds (warning: another picture of a guy with on of his limbs cut off.
On Diamonds and Slavery
Also I should mention that the movie Lord of War, which was just released on DVD, touches on the issue of conflict diamonds, so is a good primer if you don't feel like reading. The movie itself isn't about diamonds (but you do see them several times offered as payment and the main character talks about the concept of Conflict Diamonds), but all of the scenes set in Africa (which are both disturbing and heartbreaking) give you a fairly good idea of what is made possible by diamonds and the wars fought over them. The wars shown couldn't continue the way they do without the diamond trade, something that's been recognized by the UN Security Council.
Reading about the atrocities related to conflict diamonds are a really terrible and ugly glimpse into the kind of cruelty man can perpetrate against one another, and how the market (i.e. us) can encourage such brutality. What goes on in Africa now is some of the worst mankind has witnessed. I have a friend who has a morbid fascination with reading accounts of the Holocaust, and she says that reading a UN sponsored report of some of the Sierra Leone blood diamond attrocities is the most nightmare inducing thing she's ever read. It's truly horrifying beyond description.
pumpkincat210
Well-known member
I saw a show about diamonds on A&E it was very sad. So many people have taken advantage of their diamonds.. and they are still dirt poor, when they could be rich..
