Is racism quite prevalent in the USA??

[Beauty Mark]

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In fact, a lot of scientific studies are finding that it is almost genetic... an instinct if you will -- not forgetting that we are animals.

Two of my cats are arguably prejudiced. They fear dogs, even if the dog doesn't come near them. I think there are prejudices in the animal kingdom indeed, and it is hard to fight nature.

 

[AlarmAgent]

For those in this thread that may think racism is no longer an issue in this country, or not important/prevalent/invasive, I think it would do you well to at least consider what the following link has to say:

White Privilege: Unpacking the Invisible Knapsack

As tacky as it sounds, it opened my eyes to a few situations and thoughts I would've otherwise never been exposed to. It can't hurt to give it a read!

edited to add: I don't think anyone in this thread needs to read this, I'm not saying anyone here has exhibited anything near racism, I'm just suggesting that it is a pretty enriching little essay that is on the topic of how race factors in to every day life.

 

[Aprilrobin]

Is white privilege the same as racism? Socioeconomic privilege? Male privilege?

I'm sure I have benefited from white privilege by no "fault" of my own really.
I certainly do not deny that this exists one bit.

But, does it make me racist when that happens?

Also, I'm sorry. The list on that article so awful. While some is very, very true and obvious, at least half is utter bunk. "white privilege exists because other races don't get to be as racist". Also, the author is quite obviously a "victim" of socioeconomic priviledge.

 

[ShugAvery2001]

Yes, I think it is prevalent in the US but I don't think that the US is any worse than any European country. My European friends have a lot of the same experiences as I do. Usually, their communities are racially segregated. Usually minorities have a harder time dealing with the criminal justice system. If you're an immigrant that can't blend in seamlessly with the majority population because of your skin tone or facial features you may have some challenges. etc.
What I appreciate about the US, is that we've done a pretty decent job of setting up legal protections for minorities and white women. We seem to promote diversity in college employment and housing although there is still work to be done.
It also depends on your regional and social economic status as well.

But one point I definitely disagree with that I've seen repeated in this thread is that prejudice is somehow part of our nature as human beings. The analogy of people of different races being like cats and dogs is IMO dead wrong. We are more like different breeds of the same animal. People develop prejudice AND racist views by nurture not nature.

If you're (x race fill in the blank) and all your life you live in an all (x race fill in the blank) neighborhood you go to an all (x race fill in the blank) school and all your friends and family are (x race fill in the blank) and the only exposure to (Y race fill in the blank) people you have is when you watch t.v. you might be more inclined to accept racial stereotypes about (Y race fill in the blank) people
Not to mention all you're high school drop out relatives who have their own irrational biases that they share.

That's not nature that's nuture!

 

[ShugAvery2001]

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Originally Posted by Aprilrobin Is white privilege the same as racism? Socioeconomic privilege? Male privilege? I'm sure I have benefited from white privilege by no "fault" of my own really. I certainly do not deny that this exists one bit.

Of course it's of "no fault" of your own. It sucks to be a minority anywhere.
But if you acknowledge that you know that being a part of the majority provides you an advantage then you also understand that many times those who aren't a part of the majority can experiences some DISadvantages.
My daughter went through an exercise at school (we live in a majority white community). She's a junior in high school and I don't remember the class but the assignment was for the leaders to hire and pay the other classmates. She's the only african american in her class and she was the last one hired and she was paid less. Of course I know that this is pretty consistent with what goes on nationally in this country..

it's just the way it is

 

[Beauty Mark]

White privilege is a general commentary on the system that exists. It isn't the person's fault, but it is. An example of this may be that a black person is going to be treated like a thief in an expensive store, while a white person will be treated like a customers.

I do believe there are other forms of privilege, of course, including socioeconomic and gender ones. However, unless you are the agent of creating this privilege, you aren't to be blamed.

I don't think we're setup to automatically fear other races, but I do think it is within nature to develop prejudice through experience. Does that make sense? I think it's very hard, if not impossible, for people or animals to not develop any kind of prejudice. I'm not talking exclusively negative ones, either; I think plenty of people have "positive" prejudices.

I also believe people are given enough rational capabilities to try to fight their own prejudices.

 

[Simply Elegant]

About the nature versus nurture topic, I thin the nature aspect is involved in racism, although more in a minor way in comparison to how one lives. Our brains are set up to automatically categorize types of people and things to make processing more efficient so if one sees x race and has a certain type of experience, that person belonging to x race might be categorized the same way. It's set up like that because there's too much stimuli and the brain can't actively process everything fast enough.

That's the only way I can see how nature plays a part in racism though. I think what you experience and learn is more important and to avoid having racist views I think it's important for kids to experience new people and cultures when they're young enough to accept everything.

 

[Aprilrobin]

There are many, many, many studies out there that seem to have some good (or at least interesting) evidence showing that the root if prejudice is genetic /evolutionary.

Of course this doesn't excuse discrimination or hate crime or anything of the sort. It also doesn't mean that there aren't other factors that coontribute to racism.

It might be something we are actually born with that we have to overcome. To that point, I'm sure better nurturing could potentially nip it in the bud or speed up the learning process that we need to overcome it.

 

[Aprilrobin]

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Originally Posted by ShugAvery2001 Of course it's of "no fault" of your own. It sucks to be a minority anywhere. But if you acknowledge that you know that being a part of the majority provides you an advantage then you also understand that many times those who aren't a part of the majority can experiences some DISadvantages. My daughter went through an exercise at school (we live in a majority white community). She's a junior in high school and I don't remember the class but the assignment was for the leaders to hire and pay the other classmates. She's the only african american in her class and she was the last one hired and she was paid less. Of course I know that this is pretty consistent with what goes on nationally in this country.. it's just the way it is

Oh no, I do acknowledge it. I actually understand it. My family (we are jewish) were victims of a hate crime when I was a little kid in the 70's. We were a minority in a racially tense inner city. Our house was burned down and I remember that vividly.

I also remember in my 20's when I was told on the d/l that I should leave my company and find a new job. My company was jewish and wouldn't promote me because I am female. This was an actual discussion had about me.

Definite disadvantages, which certainly does help me understand my advantages as well. These days I certainly have more advantages, nothing but advantages really. I'm sure just as many are due to white privilege as socioeconomic -- at least in my neck of the woods.

I just brought it up because there is a difference between privilege and racism or hate and the ideas seemed to be used interchangably.

 

[ShugAvery2001]

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Originally Posted by Aprilrobin Oh no, I do acknowledge it. I actually understand it. My family (we are jewish) were victims of a hate crime when I was a little kid in the 70's. We were a minority in a racially tense inner city. Our house was burned down and I remember that vividly. .... I just brought it up because there is a difference between privilege and racism or hate and the ideas seemed to be used interchangably.

Yeah the jewish community here in Chicago is often targeted for racist vandals.

I'm not sure most people would use privilege/racism interchangeably. The last example I've heard of people discussing white privilege, was in the context of the current election and how certain moral exceptions were made related to Palins unwed teen daughter getting pregnant.

Examples of racism are usually more direct than that. and many times violent.

 

[AlarmAgent]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aprilrobin I just brought it up because there is a difference between privilege and racism or hate and the ideas seemed to be used interchangably.

You make a good point, there is a difference. I linked to that essay because it relates to race, and as a white person, it helped me to better understand what exactly my privilege was, and queued me on to some of the subtle, systematic racial things that are in play in our culture. Not to make anyone feel guilty, or to say that if you are in that position of privilege that you are somehow racist. I should've made that more clear from the beginning.

It isn't your fault as a white person that you have some advantages, it is just something I feel you should be aware of when discussing race with others. The black experience in the United States is very different from the white experience, just as the Asian experience is different, just as the Jewish experience is different.

I think we can all agree that in terms of advantages those who have it best are wealthy, white, attractive, heterosexual middle-aged males. The rest of us have disadvantages, and it is a matter of degrees.

Not all of the 50 things listed in the essay are that pertinent to your individual experience, but there is still some good stuff in there.

 

[ShugAvery2001]

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Originally Posted by Simply Elegant About the nature versus nurture topic, I thin the nature aspect is involved in racism, although more in a minor way in comparison to how one lives. Our brains are set up to automatically categorize types of people and things to make processing more efficient so if one sees x race and has a certain type of experience, that person belonging to x race might be categorized the same way. It's set up like that because there's too much stimuli and the brain can't actively process everything fast enough.

Its definitely not that cut and dry. I know alot of white people who were raised in black neighborhoods that are tend to be alot less PREJUDICE towards blacks. Is that a question of genetics or environment? My girlfriend married a Polish guy. I mean .. thick in the accent Polish. His mom hates this.. his mom is pretty prejudice but he's totally not.. he's prejudice against jewish people oddly enough... genetically what determines who you're going to be racist/groupist against?
I really really REALLY believe it has more to do with societal norms and nurture. Not genetics. There are white people today in america who's parents are TOTALLLLY racist but they aren't. If it was a question of genetics this wouldn't be the case.

 

[AdlersMommy22]

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Originally Posted by ShugAvery2001 Yeah the jewish community here in Chicago is often targeted for racist vandals. I'm not sure most people would use privilege/racism interchangeably. The last example I've heard of people discussing white privilege, was in the context of the current election and how certain moral exceptions were made related to Palins unwed teen daughter getting pregnant. Examples of racism are usually more direct than that. and many times violent.

Just because yo're from chi I had to bring this up.. I <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 when people respond to my "Im a white sox fan" with "aren't most white sox fans black?"

WTF? LOL

Apparently since comiskey is on the the southside (what what!) I have to be black or hispanic in order to be a white sox fan. I get mad excitment out of walking around @ wrigley going "im from the southside... im going to shank yo ass- Im Irish, yo!" people look at me like im sucha creeper... little 5'2" 110 lb brunette girl in Tiffany jewlery, and MAC makeup walking around threatening to shank people... HAHAHAHA. But thats the stero-type people deal with up there. It's nuts. I come from a really small town 3 hours south of chi where i dont deal w/ a lot of race issues personally because... i dont know-- its just not really that much of an issue in the environment.... but it cracks me up when I go up to chicago and it seems like the people up there sometimes make a BIGGER issue out of it than I would. I go to Comiskey sometimes and Ive heard "little girl are you lost??" out of black guys' mouths and im like "nope. Im here to see Ozzie. What up?" LOL... i <3 it. I want to live on the southside and shank people, yo!


ps. I have no idea what "shank" means. seriously.

 

[flowerhead]

I think you have to realise that racism is everywhere. Any country on the planet you can think of, along with sexism, homophobia, and any other prejudice you can think of....What can you do really, apart from educate people. As an example...I've lost count of all the times people have been horribly negative to me on a personal level because of my sexuality, and I agree with some responses here, you just have to rise above it. What else can you do? I just feel sorry for bigots. Waste of a mind.

 

[ShugAvery2001]

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Originally Posted by AdlersMommy22 Just because yo're from chi I had to bring this up.. I <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 when people respond to my "Im a white sox fan" with "aren't most white sox fans black?" WTF? LOL Apparently since comiskey is on the the southside (what what!) I have to be black or hispanic in order to be a white sox fan. I get mad excitment out of walking around @ wrigley going "im from the southside... im going to shank yo ass- Im Irish, yo!" people look at me like im sucha creeper... little 5'2" 110 lb brunette girl in Tiffany jewlery, and MAC makeup walking around threatening to shank people... HAHAHAHA. But thats the stero-type people deal with up there. It's nuts. I come from a really small town 3 hours south of chi where i dont deal w/ a lot of race issues personally because... i dont know-- its just not really that much of an issue in the environment.... but it cracks me up when I go up to chicago and it seems like the people up there sometimes make a BIGGER issue out of it than I would. I go to Comiskey sometimes and Ive heard "little girl are you lost??" out of black guys' mouths and im like "nope. Im here to see Ozzie. What up?" LOL... i <3 it. I want to live on the southside and shank people, yo! ps. I have no idea what "shank" means. seriously.

There are a ganggg of Irish people on the southside.. people just don't know. St. Pats day on the south side of chicago is off the hook!

 

[ShugAvery2001]

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Originally Posted by flowerhead I think you have to realise that racism is everywhere. Any country on the planet you can think of, along with sexism, homophobia, and any other prejudice you can think of....What can you do really, apart from educate people. As an example...I've lost count of all the times people have been horribly negative to me on a personal level because of my sexuality, and I agree with some responses here, you just have to rise above it. What else can you do? I just feel sorry for bigots. Waste of a mind.

100% AGREEMENT!!!

 

[TISH1124]

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Originally Posted by flowerhead I think you have to realise that racism is everywhere. Any country on the planet you can think of, along with sexism, homophobia, and any other prejudice you can think of....What can you do really, apart from educate people. As an example...I've lost count of all the times people have been horribly negative to me on a personal level because of my sexuality, and I agree with some responses here, you just have to rise above it. What else can you do? I just feel sorry for bigots. Waste of a mind.

Thats It!! You said it!! I was visiting a friends church last week...and the Pastor of the church was having a whole conversation regarding Sexuality..My dh and I were shocked really...Not that this was his beliefs but that he spent quite a bit of time voicing his thoughts on it...Everyone in the church was really quiet...So he said "Yeah I said it" People think it, People will wonder why I am talking about it, But, I'm just preaching the truth and I am not afraid to talk about it." My dh and I just went Whoa, Alrighty Then....A few Well's then....Speechless we sat.

 

[AdlersMommy22]

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Originally Posted by ShugAvery2001 There are a ganggg of Irish people on the southside.. people just don't know. St. Pats day on the south side of chicago is off the hook!

omg ive heard that- id loooooove to go to that ... my whole family is mad irish--- i <3 being irish catholic and having my southside irish claim on the white sox. It makes me annoyed now the cubs fans are sporting the "irish" look... north chi is mostly polish.... they are totally stealing from us... i dont know why but it makes me SO MAD when i see people in irish cubs stuff... I see them in my work all the time and im seriously so disgusted... the Sox have been "irish southside" for as long as I can remember and ...ugh- just steal another thing from us you attention whores...

maybe im racist against cubs fans.

I <3 you girls for your great views on this topic.

 

[hotmodelchiq]

YES YES YES... people are so ignorant here and prejudice... I mean how can you HATE someone solely based on their skin color? People here try to act like it doesn't exist but it does... but that doesnt mean all races automatically hate each other... for example Im black and I dont automatically assume every white person I meet hates me but I am VERY aware when someone is giving me a hard time because of my race and it sucks because I cant change that....

 

[hotmodelchiq]

Quote:

Originally Posted by flowerhead I think you have to realise that racism is everywhere. Any country on the planet you can think of, along with sexism, homophobia, and any other prejudice you can think of....What can you do really, apart from educate people. As an example...I've lost count of all the times people have been horribly negative to me on a personal level because of my sexuality, and I agree with some responses here, you just have to rise above it. What else can you do? I just feel sorry for bigots. Waste of a mind.

I agree with you