Jena 6

[aziajs]

This is a story that has gained alot of media coverage over the last few weeks. What are your thoughts?

Here are some links to the story:

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/...na-rally_N.htm

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/...n3280604.shtml

http://www.democracynow.org/article..../07/10/1413220

 

[CantAffordMAC]

I don't know what to think.

It's not hard for me to believe that a school in the South has plenty of racist students/staff in it. And its not hard to believe that after hanging nooses from a tree, the white students who did this, received a few days' suspension and that was all.

I don't think its unbelievable that 6 black students would beat up a white kid, either. It wasn't right, and they shouldn't have done it, but a lot of youngins make mistakes. I have seen so many fights during high school (white against black, black against spanish, black on black, etc) and have even been in one. Suspensions were given, but thats as far as it went. I also think that its quite possible that this white kid may have said something racist/derogatory to these black students in hopes to set them off.

I was watching Dr. Phil today, and the Jena 6 story was on. Some caucasion lady defending the white student and his family was on the show, and I find it funny that she wouldn't state what the punishment was for hanging nooses on a tree. She would NOT state what those boys got as a punishment, but continued to say how it was much worse than a simple smack on the hand. Also, the victim's mother claiming that these 6 boys almost killed her son, is a little bit of a stretch to me. He was badly beaten, true. But he was also released from the hospital only a couple hours later. I can't see how that is considered attempted murder. Call something what it is, don't make ridiculous claims, and then say that you aren't racist. Okay, so your son got beaten by 6 black boys, went to the hospital for a couple of hours, and was released and told to go home and put some ice on it and take an advil, and thats attempted murder? NO, it is a bunch of Southern racists who want these boys to go to jail for something that doesn't deserve jail time, IMO. Almost every teen that breaks the law is charged as a juvenile, so why were these boys in an adult jail? If thats the case, I should've been in adult jail last year for starting a fight with a freshman.

Why weren't these black students allowed to sit under a tree until last September?? Thats just ridiculous...I think theres far worse things going on in schools around the country than we'd like to believe. Racism still exists, and many people are not afraid to show it. I have no doubt in my mind that many of the white staff at that school are very racist, and would love nothing more than to see the black students receive a punishment they don't deserve, and ultimately have a white only school again.

The 6 black students are very wrong for what they did. They should not have beaten that white student up, regardless of what he may have did to provoke them. But not everyone can say that they never make mistakes...especially young teenagers. A punishment is very well deserved, but not jail time. Not charges of attempted murder. Thats ludicrous (sp) plain and simple.

 

[MACa6325xi]

I agree with you Cantaffordmac. I think the situation should have been handled differently. First of all, there should not be a White tree or Black tree. I blame the school for allowing that type of thing to occur. The Black students were treated unfairly. They should have been tried in juvenile court from the beginning. The main issue is equal justice under the law. The Black students should be punished accordingly, but not as adults. The students who hung the noose should have been punished also. These types of things are happening all over this country, not just Jena,LA. Nevertheless, I'm glad that there is a spotlight on Jena so maybe people can become aware of how Blacks and other people of color are treated in the criminal justice system.

 

[Shimmer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by CantAffordMAC The 6 black students are very wrong for what they did. They should not have beaten that white student up, regardless of what he may have did to provoke them. But not everyone can say that they never make mistakes...especially young teenagers. A punishment is very well deserved, but not jail time. Not charges of attempted murder. Thats ludicrous (sp) plain and simple.

Would you say the same thing if it were 6 white children as the aggressors and 1 black child as the victim?

 

[MACa6325xi]

Race shouldn't matter, if six White kids beat up a Black kid and it happened in
high school, they should be charged in the juvenile court system. It should be equal punishment. If a Black student hung a noose that student should be suspened or expelled. The school should have done a better job of handling the tree incident before if got out of hand. Should there be a Black tree and White Tree? The problem is that people are so ignorant and think that all Black people want is for the Black kids to be set free with no punishment at all. That's not what it's about. The punishment that the Black kids received was unfair and unjust. This is why the Justice Department, ACLU, and other legal and civil rights groups are looking into this case.

 

[Shimmer]

Would those organizations have done the same thing for the six white boys and 1 black boy, had the roles been reversed?
Would those organizations have said "The punishment these white children received was unfair and unjust!"?
Would those organizations have rallied and protected the white children as they are the black children?

Or~

Would Rev. Jackson and Mr. Sharpton and their colleagues arrive despite the needlessness of those appearances?
Would those six white kids hear from people across the country "No jail time!" "People make mistakes!"? or would they hear "HATE CRIME! DOWN WITH THE WHITE BOYS!!"?

If the answer is that regardless of race, color, creed, or belief, the aggressors would have been treated the same way, the situation is one thing.
If the aggressors would be treated differently based on them being white instead of black, then it's another one entirely.

:/

 

[komischkatze]

Hmm... knowing people from near that area, I've heard a lot of comments that Jena itself is stuck in about a 1960s mentality on race relations. I've never been there myself and of course that's just the opinion I've heard from people, but do with it what you will. For those who are wondering about the issue of being tried as adults vs. juveniles, in Louisiana you are considered an adult for these kind of legal proceedings if you are 17 or older. 16 is the cusp and can go either way depending on the situation. Of the students involved in this incident, 1 was 14 and he was tried as a juvenile. Mychall Bell - the one who's gained the most media attention - was 16 at the time and had previously been charged for multiple accounts of battery. His prior record is supposedly why he was tried as an adult (though I'm sure his race was an influence in that region). All of the other students were 17 or 18 and were automatically tried as adults. Of course, we don't know for certain if Mychall Bell's prior criminal record was justly deserved or trumped up because of his race. But I think, on paper regardless of race (though, again, it's obviously an issue in Jena) trying him as an adult makes sense. But I DEFINITELY think some people got pretty nuts with it. One lawyer supposedly tried to have his sneakers declared as deadly weapons to make the assault charge worse. Um... I mean, maybe if they were steel-toed boots or somethin' but come on... Nuts. At least the judges or whoever saw that for the load it was.

Oh, and uh, what kind of screwed up jury was that? In this case, a change of venue would have been for the best.

 

[MACa6325xi]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shimmer Would those organizations have done the same thing for the six white boys and 1 black boy, had the roles been reversed? Would those organizations have said "The punishment these white children received was unfair and unjust!"? Would those organizations have rallied and protected the white children as they are the black children? Or~ Would Rev. Jackson and Mr. Sharpton and their colleagues arrive despite the needlessness of those appearances? Would those six white kids hear from people across the country "No jail time!" "People make mistakes!"? or would they hear "HATE CRIME! DOWN WITH THE WHITE BOYS!!"? If the answer is that regardless of race, color, creed, or belief, the aggressors would have been treated the same way, the situation is one thing. If the aggressors would be treated differently based on them being white instead of black, then it's another one entirely. :/

First of all, this probably would not have happened to Six White Kids beacuse the prosecutor more than likely would not have charged them. If he did charge them, he more than likely would have treated them as juveniles. Indeed, there would have been a national outcry for justice if the Jena 6 boys were White, think back to "Duke Lacrosse." If the Jena 6 boys were White, they probably would not have spent a day or night in jail because: 1. They probably would not have been given jail time. 2. Someone would have immediately posted their bail. There would have been a national media outcry and legal defense fund set up immediately to deal with their legal expenses. Rev. Jessie Jackson or Rev. Al Sharpton may not have arrived for Six White Boys, but Bill O'Reilly damn sure would have as well as other FOX News Commentators.

 

[NutMeg]

I think that what Shimmer is trying to say is that the racism goes both ways in this situation... I don't think it is possible in America for this kind of incident to not be viewed in the context of racism, simply because it is such a high profile topic. Racism is so talked about and over analyzed that it's hard to simply take an action without considering the race of those involved.

I do think that the Jena Six should be punished for assaulting that other boy, because that is a violent and inexcusable action. With or without taking the race of the individuals into account. However, all of the lead up actions (ie the nooses) should have been appropriately disciplined, and maybe the attack wouldn't have happened. Race related frustrations clearly played a large part in this attack, and for members of the town of Jena to claim otherwise is mind boggling.

I'm also somewhat annoyed that the charge was attempted murder. The boy was released from the hospital a couple of hours after being admitted and then went to a ceremony later that night, so he clearly wasn't dangerously injured. I don't really blame his parents for being so vehement about it though, because their son was viciously attacked and I think there is a very primal response when something like that happens to your child. I do wish they would acknowledge the racial climate in which the attack occurred, not to justify the attack itself, but to admit that it was sparked by a series of injust actions taken by the authorities against a specific race.

 

[Shimmer]

Yes ^^^^ (Nutmeg)

Also, if a man pulls over while you're jogging, grabs you, throws you in his car, and beats you, tries to molest/rape/sodomize you, but you get away, and get taken to a hospital where you are treated and told "It's superficial, you'll be fine, here's a cold pack for your black eye and some t3 for soreness, go home and sleep it off..."
Does that outcome (the fact you're not really hurt) change his intent (to rape, kill, sodomize, and beat you)? If a court says, or the public says, "Well, you're FINE though, you weren't raped, sodomized, killed, or beaten...why should he be charged with anything other than aggravated assault & battery?" how would you, as the victim, respond to that?


I'm not saying one way or the other on the Jena 6, I'm saying that if the INTENT was there (regardless of motivation), that needs to be taken into consideration during punishment, regardless of the OUTCOME.

 

[Beauty Mark]

-The school handled the noose incident poorly, but it is not up to individuals to go all vigilante on something like this. Exhaust your resources THEN do that.

-From what I gather, this "white tree" thing wasn't explicitly designated by the school as a "white tree." While I think that's a shitty attitude of the kids, you can't force them to handle things differently. If you were unpopular during high school, try sitting at the popular table. You're going to be treated poorly.

-I'm not for attacking individuals, regardless of what they said. If that Barker kid said some shit, it does indeed make him an asshole, but I don't believe if warranted giving him a concussion and leaving him unconscious. If their motivation was to kill him, those boys deserved to be tried as anyone else.

The real problem, though, is all the racism on all sides. Whenever I read about this, I think there's plenty going on on the black and white sides. I know it's hard to not think like that, but I think that's so dangerous to think like that. I don't want people to try to kill me when an Asian person does something nuts.

 

[Raerae]

I'm only going to comment on the White Tree thing...

Personally, I view that as a product of SELF SEGREGATION more than anything. And it happens at every school, not just the school in Jena.

I know at my school there was the place where the Asians hung out, and another place where the Blacks were, and another place where the mexicans were, and another place where the Whites were.

But you also had mixed areas as well, with groups of people from all races hanging out. But c'mon. It wasn't like those "race" specific spots were first come first serve. Everyone on campus knew that if you were not Asian, you didn't sit at that table, or near that planter (had low walls around it to sit on) because that was theirs. Every race had one. And yah, if another group tried to take it, you can best bet there was going to be problems.

That never changed in the 4 years I went to HighSchool there. The race spots were always the same every year.

Just like there was Freshman (you got to sit on the ground)

Sophmore, the steps...

Junior that tables in the sun...

And Seniors the tables in the shade...

Places to sit as well... And even those got segregated by clique's. Be it sports, cheerleading, popular, whatever.

 

[CantAffordMAC]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shimmer Would you say the same thing if it were 6 white children as the aggressors and 1 black child as the victim?

I would definetly say the same thing. Racism shouldn't happen, regardless if its 6 white students vs. 1 black student, or vice versa. The white teenager may have said something to provoke the black boys, but that does not justify what they did to him. It doesn't matter to me if the 6 boys were white, and they beat up a black kid, or if they were Spanish or Asian or Indian...it should not have happened. I wouldn't be screaming "Oh, I can't believe them white rednecks did this to that black boy! They should go to jail!" No, because they shouldn't. People (especially young ones) make mistakes all the time. This is just a great big mess.

 

[CantAffordMAC]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shimmer Yes ^^^^ (Nutmeg) Also, if a man pulls over while you're jogging, grabs you, throws you in his car, and beats you, tries to molest/rape/sodomize you, but you get away, and get taken to a hospital where you are treated and told "It's superficial, you'll be fine, here's a cold pack for your black eye and some t3 for soreness, go home and sleep it off..." Does that outcome (the fact you're not really hurt) change his intent (to rape, kill, sodomize, and beat you)? If a court says, or the public says, "Well, you're FINE though, you weren't raped, sodomized, killed, or beaten...why should he be charged with anything other than aggravated assault & battery?" how would you, as the victim, respond to that? I'm not saying one way or the other on the Jena 6, I'm saying that if the INTENT was there (regardless of motivation), that needs to be taken into consideration during punishment, regardless of the OUTCOME.

True. But do you really think that their intent was to kill?

I know that after seeing this boy's swollen, bloody face, that it is hard to believe, but I do not think that these boys intended to kill the victim. Whatever reason they had for going after him was WRONG, but I don't think that they were trying to kill him. I think to have so much hate in your heart that you want to randomly take someone's life away, is really uncommon for 6 average teen boys. I have seen so many fights, I have seen people get beaten up, I have seen people get jumped, I've seen old people fight teenagers, I've seen it all. And none of it was justified or right. But I have yet to see someone beat someone so badly that it made me think "This person is going to die. They're going to kill him...I better call the cops" (which reminds me...were there any witnesses that saw the victim getting beaten?)

I'm not trying to make it seem as thought the black teens have the right to do what they did, but in certain areas of the world (certain cities/towns, etc) fighting is something thats common. It isn't right, but it happens. I've also hardly ever seen the police called, unless it was a fight in school. A friend of mine (18 yrs old) beat up a junior (17) and had to go to court, and got community service. I fought a freshman girl (who's age I'm not sure of but I think she was 16 or 17) and I was 17, and I got suspended for 2 days (she got nothing)

I think that in such a place as Jena, where race is obviously an issue, it is not the smartest thing for 6 black boys to jump 1 white kid. I wonder though, if 6 black boys jumped 1 black boy, what would've happened.

 

[Shimmer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by CantAffordMAC I would definetly say the same thing. Racism shouldn't happen, regardless if its 6 white students vs. 1 black student, or vice versa. The white teenager may have said something to provoke the black boys, but that does not justify what they did to him. It doesn't matter to me if the 6 boys were white, and they beat up a black kid, or if they were Spanish or Asian or Indian...it should not have happened. I wouldn't be screaming "Oh, I can't believe them white rednecks did this to that black boy! They should go to jail!" No, because they shouldn't. People (especially young ones) make mistakes all the time. This is just a great big mess.

Young children 8, 9, and 10 years of age make mistakes, adults make mistakes too, admittedly, but this isn't a 'mistake'. Mistake implies that there was no intent for damage/pain/etc. on the victim. "Mistake" implies that all involved were victims, and that's definitely not the case.

I'm not saying they should spend life in prison or anything like that, but to say that this was a 'mistake' or 'misunderstanding' is to downplay the intent of the attackers.

 

[Beauty Mark]

Quote:

I think to have so much hate in your heart that you want to randomly take someone's life away, is really uncommon for 6 average teen boys.

It's uncommon but certainly not improbable. There are plenty of white supremacists, old and young, who would love nothing more for me and anyone non-white to be gone. If provoked, I wouldn't be surprised if I got attacked.

Considering that the racial tensions sounded high, mob mentality can get the best of people sometimes.

I kind of wish people would handle these race incidents differently. I don't know how, but I feel like everyone else interfering is causing more harm than good

 

[kimmy]

first of all, sharpton and jackson are not in this for the jena six, they are in this to make their name bigger and collect a few checks along the way. they've been in my city before to start shit, and they were wrong...but it got them attention and it got them endorsements and donation.

i don't think the white students were right for hanging the nooses...but guess what? it's high school. kids do stupid shit like that because they're ignorant. no matter how offensive it was, that doesn't justify a single kid having the hell beat out of him. when i was in high school, kids made comments that were very racially insensitive to just about every group you can think of, kids played pranks, kids offended other kids. it happens.

is it right? no. but does it happen? yes. does it justify beating someone? no.

i find it preposterous that the judge overturned the sentence on the grounds of him not being old enough to be tried as an adult. he was sixteen years old at the time, which in several states is legal adulthood. though lousianna isn't one of those states, at sixteen he knew better. at sixteen years old, you know right from wrong and if you don't, maybe the courts should take into consideration investigating the capabilities whoever raised you.

 

[CantAffordMAC]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shimmer Young children 8, 9, and 10 years of age make mistakes, adults make mistakes too, admittedly, but this isn't a 'mistake'. Mistake implies that there was no intent for damage/pain/etc. on the victim. "Mistake" implies that all involved were victims, and that's definitely not the case. I'm not saying they should spend life in prison or anything like that, but to say that this was a 'mistake' or 'misunderstanding' is to downplay the intent of the attackers.

you're right. Maybe mistake shouldn't have been used on my part...let's just replace mistake with "f*ck up". People f*ck up. People do dumb, horrible things that should never happen. I have done stupid things that I regret deeply, and definetly learned my lesson without spending time in jail. Once again, although these boys messed up badly, they do not deserve what has been thrown at them. They were dead wrong for doing what they did, but what they're going through for it is wrong as well.

 

[Saleemah]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kimmy first of all, sharpton and jackson are not in this for the jena six, they are in this to make their name bigger and collect a few checks along the way. they've been in my city before to start shit, and they were wrong...but it got them attention and it got them endorsements and donation. i don't think the white students were right for hanging the nooses...but guess what? it's high school. kids do stupid shit like that because they're ignorant. no matter how offensive it was, that doesn't justify a single kid having the hell beat out of him. when i was in high school, kids made comments that were very racially insensitive to just about every group you can think of, kids played pranks, kids offended other kids. it happens. is it right? no. but does it happen? yes. does it justify beating someone? no. i find it preposterous that the judge overturned the sentence on the grounds of him not being old enough to be tried as an adult. he was sixteen years old at the time, which in several states is legal adulthood. though lousianna isn't one of those states, at sixteen he knew better. at sixteen years old, you know right from wrong and if you don't, maybe the courts should take into consideration investigating the capabilities whoever raised you.

I do not think people understand the gravity of hanging a noose. That noose is a way of putting Blacks in their "place". It is a symbol of lynching; do your understand the gravity of hanging nooses? Blacks were lynched just for being Black without any consequences. The boys that did it were expelled until the school board voted to reinstated them back into school; the board and many other people that I heard on television called it a prank. If the adults call it a prank them the message is that hanging nooses is no big deal.

After the nooses were hung the district attorney told the black students not speak of the noose or he would make their lives disappear with the stroke of a pen. I heard on lady say "we get along just fine with our coloreds", if you are still saying colored you are racist. The use of the term colored implies that you know your place. Most racists do no know that they are racist. At a press conference this week the district attorney stated that the demonstration was peaceful only because of Jesus Christ, when he was giving a chance to clarify he reiterated that only God's presence prevented riots. As if Blacks are genetically violent. If you think this way you are probably racist. Even city hall was closed, how many city administrations close because a demonstration is being held? Does everyone know that one of the six boys had a gun pointed in his face by a white boy (previous to to incident), he took the gun away from the boy and ran and was charged with theft. The white boy was not charged. Ladies racism exist and you will not notice it unless it affects you. Racism is not as overt as it used to be, it is now covert. Usually the only ones that notice it are the victims of it.

The 6 boys had no right putting their hands on the boy no matter what he said or did. Children should be taught that violence is wrong unless you are defending yourself. I don't care about Michael Bell's record because that is not the issue at hand (although his parents should have straightened him out after the first time and are partly responsible for attitude), the issue is that this town has a long history over prosecuting Blacks and under prosecuting Whites.

If this truly was not a racist town why is it ok for the district attorney to threaten Black students? Where is the outrage in that? Why is the hanging of a noose a practical joke? Do you know that 3 people in the next town over are being prosecuting for hanging two noose off a truck? What next the burning of a cross on the lawn of a black church? That is just as bad as hanging a noose from a tree. Do you know that there is a white side of town and a Black side of town and noting in between?

Most people who say that hanging a noose is just a prank do not know what it is like to have a family member that has been lynched, or what it is like to be pulled over by police because you are a Black man in a car too nice to be yours, be called a nigger, or be followed closely whenever you enter a store. I bet you do not know what is like to walk down the street and have most of the White people that are approaching you cross the street. Yes ladies this happens everyday around you and you do not have a clue; because it does not affect you. Remember the Black woman that was kidnapped, raped, forced to eat feces and stabbed? The highest crime that her captors are charged with is kidnapping. Tell me that there is not a disparity between the two races.

 

[kimmy]

i'm pretty well learned, i know what the nooses were supposed to signify. hence my comment "i don't think the white students were right for hanging the nooses." also, i would like to point out that i never claimed that jena isn't a racist town. i've never been there, thus have no place to comment on the way the town itself is, only on the fact that what those six boys did was wrong no matter how you slice it.

and if you think that just because i'm white, i haven't experienced racism, you're sorely mistaken. alot of people like to discount any racism expressed towards white people for some reason, but racism is racism, no matter who it's towards or who it's expressed by...