Jena 6

[Shimmer]

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Originally Posted by Indigowaters No one was hurt? Really?

By the nooses being hung? Who was harmed? Physically?
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"He had the unfortunate luck of being white."

Yep, because had the race roles been reversed, it isn't an unfair bet to say that Heaven and Earth would be moved to take care of him. Because he's white, it seems to be okay that he was attacked.
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When did the black kids admit to being racist?

Like I said, through their actions, past or present, or verbally.
I just remember stating above saying what those kids did was wrong, yet no matter how many times I say it, it's not good enough. Why? Because I don't want them to spend the rest of their lives in jail? Is there anything else I can say?[/quote]

I don't want them to spend the rest of their lives in jail either, but I don't want them to receive a prosecution and punishment that will simply disappear when they turn 18 because their juvenile records are closed.
There was a premeditated, intentional attack...that carries weight, I think.

 

[Shimmer]

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Originally Posted by Indigowaters So what punishment should the white kids have gotten? Below you say they weren't punished to the fullest extent of the law. What is the law for hanging nooses or committing hate crimes? Oh, that's right. There isn't one.

It's not illegal to hang nooses.
It's not illegal to burn crosses.
Both are protected under the amendment guaranteeing citizens of the United States Freedom of Speech and Expression.

That doesn't make them tasteful actions, but they're not illegal, no matter how insensitive they are.

 

[Beauty Mark]

One of my close friends claims that she has been harassed for being white in Milwaukee. Having never been there, I can't confirm that, but this is a very rational girl. I know first hand that my school district had all sorts of racism happen geared towards white people; there's a pending lawsuit from a white superintendent about that. It might not have the same affect is it would on a macroscopic level, but it's still wrong and hurtful and dangerous.

I think the way that the school district/town handled the noose incident is very wrong, and I think that they should have their asses handed to them. It's a little too late, but it would be better than nothing

However, I still believe that the Jena 6 were racially motivated to harm the Barker. For me personally, when one uses race to describe the events leading up to this, it's hard to quit or suspend belief that race wasn't a motivating factor for this crime. Are the charges too much? I don't know how LA operates.

 

[Shimmer]

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Originally Posted by xolovinyoo i think the white boy deserved what he got, this happens ALOT over here, and if your going to talk shit your ass is gonna get beat. its highschool, not saying its right, but thats just how it is. and im pretty sure the black kids didnt intend to kill the white boy, just teach him a lesson. &Also i think that the black kid shouldnt deserve so harsh of a punishment, the town is obviously being racist

This isn't Sparta, we don't live and die by the sword. There are laws in place to protect all citizens regardless of race.

If a black male calls me a white bitch, and my brothers (both very large and very Irish) and my husband (ok, not so large, but just as determined) decide to handle up on that, and teach the black male in question a lesson, you're saying he got what he deserved because HEY! He called me a bitch!! He deserved getting his ass whupped by some hard core country boys!


That's ridiculous.


Bring something to the discussion other than invective, please.

 

[Indigowaters]

I didn't mean anyone was physically hurt but emotionally. If you had an emotional scar say concerning rape and your attacker was allowed to verbally attack you without touching you, that wouldn't do damage to your pysche? And once again, I NEVER said it was ok for the boy to be attacked. I do think there needs to be counseling on both sides however. I think those boys should go through anger management and whatever else they need to deal with their emotions. I also think some of those students need racial insensitivity counseling to see that words DO hurt. Both sides need help. Quote:

Originally Posted by Shimmer By the nooses being hung? Who was harmed? Physically? Yep, because had the race roles been reversed, it isn't an unfair bet to say that Heaven and Earth would be moved to take care of him. Because he's white, it seems to be okay that he was attacked. Like I said, through their actions, past or present, or verbally. I just remember stating above saying what those kids did was wrong, yet no matter how many times I say it, it's not good enough. Why? Because I don't want them to spend the rest of their lives in jail? Is there anything else I can say?

I don't want them to spend the rest of their lives in jail either, but I don't want them to receive a prosecution and punishment that will simply disappear when they turn 18 because their juvenile records are closed.
There was a premeditated, intentional attack...that carries weight, I think.[/quote]

 

[Beauty Mark]

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i think the white boy deserved what he got, this happens ALOT over here, and if your going to talk shit your ass is gonna get beat.

That's just so wrong on so many levels. Who knows what that kid said? He didn't hang the nooses, from what I gather, or was responsible for any of the other race incidents that occurred.

People talk shit all the time. If everyone chose to fight every single person who uttered one insult at them, our world would be crippled or have a extremely small population.

 

[Indigowaters]

I really hate arguing with you too, but aside from all the legal mumbo jumbo, it's still RACIST. Not insensitive (as in calling someone fat or ugly or dumb). It's RACIST with a capital "R". Quote:

Originally Posted by Shimmer It's not illegal to hang nooses. It's not illegal to burn crosses. Both are protected under the amendment guaranteeing citizens of the United States Freedom of Speech and Expression. That doesn't make them tasteful actions, but they're not illegal, no matter how insensitive they are.

 

[Indigowaters]

I don't think this will ever be a problem solved because these are everyone's personal opinions and they're rooted in us. So I respectfully agree to disagree and call it a night.

 

[Shimmer]

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Originally Posted by Indigowaters I didn't mean anyone was physically hurt but emotionally. If you had an emotional scar say concerning rape and your attacker was allowed to verbally attack you without touching you, that wouldn't do damage to your pysche?

I've been raped. I see the attacker every month, at least, because he's an inevitable and inarguable part of my life. I can't change that. I can however change how I react to him. I can react with fear and I can cave to that, or I can stand strong. I choose to stand strong, I choose NOT to give him the power over me. I choose not to allow him to sway my life, I choose not to give him control. It's my choice.

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And once again, I NEVER said it was ok for the boy to be attacked. I do think there needs to be counseling on both sides however. I think those boys should go through anger management and whatever else they need to deal with their emotions. I also think some of those students need racial insensitivity counseling to see that words DO hurt. Both sides need help.

To do that, the whole town, black and white, old, young, and in the middle, would need counseling to change their outlook.

 

[Shimmer]

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Originally Posted by Beauty Mark have a extremely small population.

This very well could be my idea of utopia. Do I get to vote people off the island??

 

[Shimmer]

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Originally Posted by Indigowaters I really hate arguing with you too, but aside from all the legal mumbo jumbo, it's still RACIST. Not insensitive (as in calling someone fat or ugly or dumb). It's RACIST with a capital "R".

It's racist on both sides, you're right, and it's wrong, without a doubt.
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Originally Posted by Indigowaters I don't think this will ever be a problem solved because these are everyone's personal opinions and they're rooted in us. So I respectfully agree to disagree and call it a night.

The bolded part is so important, because it's the cusp of the problem in Jena. There's nothing illegal about not liking someone because of their skintone, their area or zipcode, or their hair color. You can't discriminate against them or act on your beliefs, but HAVING the beliefs isn't illegal.
To simply say "We'll just have to disagree" means that as long as we throw our hands in the air and don't continue to find the middle ground, the racism, and the divide based on nothing more than pigmentation of one's skin, is going to be there.

 

[kimmy]

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Originally Posted by Indigowaters I really hate arguing with you too, but aside from all the legal mumbo jumbo, it's still RACIST. Not insensitive (as in calling someone fat or ugly or dumb). It's RACIST with a capital "R".

while being racist is just as wrong as beating someone up because they were talking shit, only the latter is illegal. in the eyes of the judicial system, the white boys who hung the nooses couldn't be punished very harshly because what they did was stupid and fucked up, but not illegal. the jena six beating the crap out of barker WAS illegal.

i think that's the heart of the matter. people want the jena six acquitted and left alone because they say they were just retaliating. whether they were retaliating or not, they broke the law and need to be punished for doing so.

this shouldn't be an argument, just an open communication of ideas and opinions since we're all adults...but it seems to me this is one of those things we're probably going to have to just agree to disagree on.

 

[xolovinyoo]

haha i dont give a shit, thats just how it is with some people and well.. you can't really change them. If someone says shit that i find hella offensive towards me or anybody i care about then ofcourse ill front & if there still talking there crap well then im gonna handle it. But not with intentions to KILL THEM just to teach them to keep my name out of there mouths&quit there shittalking. like i said this sort of thing happens all the time here. & i still think thats to harsh of a punishment. end of story

 

[Saleemah]

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Originally Posted by Shimmer Nope. The issue is that six males attacked one male and beat him to the point of a concussion and in need of medical care. THAT is the issue. Their race is an emotional hot point. I don't care (and most people don't) whether they're black, colored, brown, green, red, orange, yellow, or white. They ganged up on another boy and attacked him. That's the issue. The rest is polarization. The town's not on trial, the six attackers are. Big difference. There are witnesses to testify that the DA didn't make the comment to black students, he made it to an auditorium of students of mixed races. In Texas, it's legal to hang someone for stealing horses...that's what a noose always has signified to me. Horse thief. Of course, that's an outdated law that's still on the books, and I grew up in farm and ranchland, so...*shrug* Cross burning isn't illegal. Why is there a 'black' church, but if there were a 'white' church, the congregation would be accused of racism? Burning a cross is the same as burning a flag, it's an expression of freedom of speech. I don't have to like what you're saying, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it. Did you know that there are towns everywhere across the United States where I could take my redheaded Cherokee Irish self and because I'm white/not black/not Hispanic and I could be raped and killed? Because I'm white? Isn't that racism? Someone of another race doing something to me because I'm white? That's racism, but I can't imagine that I would be surrounded by the National Association for the Advancement of White People, or the ACLU, or anything else. That's discrimination just the same as anything else, but no one counts it. It's really unfair and highly short sighted to say that whites don't face racism. I assure you, they do.

When I say the the fight is not the issue at hand, I mean that I do not care about whether or not he or they go to jail; I am all for punishing hoodlums if they are guilty. My concern is the fairness of the justice system; that there is not a double standard and everyone is prosecuted and or punished Black or White. Know one condones what happened or can justify it, I do not care what the boy said. And hope that the offenders do go to jail. Talk about unfair though, one of the boys that said he did not participate in the fight was later, arrested after the boy that pulled the gun on him prior to the fight, said he was a participant. It's things like this that bother me.

And most Black people experience racism everyday, not once in a while when they enter a bad area. By the way, if I as a black woman entered any really bad neighborhood I would be afraid also, not because of their race but that is the way it is in bad neighborhoods. And why would you have a fear of being raped or murdered in a Black neighborhood? That's that underlined racism. Of course you should have a fear of being robbed if you are in ANY poor neighborhood' do you think that criminals discriminate when it is time to rob someone? There is always going to be a high crime rate in any poor neighborhood; believe it or not poor white neighborhoods to. Blacks are not naturally dangerous.

I still can't get over the fact that you would be raped or killed if you entered a black neighborhood. And not all black neighborhoods are crime ridden, just in case you did not know that. I grew up and a very poor ghetto and white people were not harassed if they entered. If you go into a black neighborhood thinking you are going to get raped or murdered, you have some serious issues. It is laughable that people still feel that way, many people.

 

[Shimmer]

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haha i dont give a shit, thats just how it is with some people and well.. you can't really change them. If someone says shit that i find hella offensive towards me or anybody i care about then ofcourse ill front & if there still talking there crap well then im gonna handle it. But not with intentions to KILL THEM just to teach them to keep my name out of there mouths&quit there shittalking. like i said this sort of thing happens all the time here. & i still think thats to harsh of a punishment. end of story

There's this really cool place called reality, and we allll live in it, whether we like it or not.
"Talking shit"...using WORDS is comparable and worthy of a 'beat down'?

"It happens all the time"

Using that argument, it's fair to say that if it happens all the time that a white man calls a black man a N-----, then the black man needs to deal with it because it happens all the time and it's okay, same goes for a black man stepping on my yard, as long as he's not KILLED it's okay to whup the shit out of him because I'm a white lady and he's on my yard.

If that were common place (and it once was), by your 'argument' they should just learn to deal with the name calling and don't step in my fucking yard, right?

 

[j_absinthe]

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Originally Posted by xolovinyoo i think the white boy deserved what he got, this happens ALOT over here, and if your going to talk shit your ass is gonna get beat. its highschool, not saying its right, but thats just how it is. and im pretty sure the black kids didnt intend to kill the white boy, just teach him a lesson. &Also i think that the black kid shouldnt deserve so harsh of a punishment, the town is obviously being racist

Well if it's not right, why perpetuate it? Why justify it? Justifying something is giving credence and acceptance to it. Perhaps if people who had a similar mindset as this post displays woke up and said "Hey, we don't have to live like this", America, maybe even the World, would be a better place.

In all honesty, if this were the other way around, there is not a doubt in my mind that Jesse Jackson and the righteous like would have these "evil, white attackers" taken out back and shot to death.

 

[Saleemah]

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Originally Posted by Shimmer It's not illegal to hang nooses. It's not illegal to burn crosses. Both are protected under the amendment guaranteeing citizens of the United States Freedom of Speech and Expression. That doesn't make them tasteful actions, but they're not illegal, no matter how insensitive they are.

It is illegal to hang a noose, it is called inciting a riot, 3 people were charged last week in Alexandria, LA. And so is burning a cross, you see when crosses are burned, they are burned on the lawn of a black church and not on someone's one property.

 

[xolovinyoo]

i didnt mean the white & black thing happens over here alot, i mean getting beat up for talking shit is what happens alot over here. Mostly the people that get made fun of over here are the whites because theres barely any white people in my area. & yeah it isnt right, but alot of things arent right and people still do it. Ill handle my buisness, i dont care if its immature or the stupid thing to do, Its our choices.

 

[CantAffordMAC]

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Originally Posted by kimmy i think that's the heart of the matter. people want the jena six acquitted and left alone because they say they were just retaliating. whether they were retaliating or not, they broke the law and need to be punished for doing so.

I definetly wouldn't want the boys to be left alone. They did jail time, which I already think is bad enough. They did break the law and they should be punished. But if anyone here can honestly say that they deserve 20+ years is prison and attempted murder charges, then I don't know what to say.

I don't think anyone here is arguing that these boys need to be punished. Why is it that other teens who get into fights are treated as what they are-juveniles...but these boys are being tried as adults and placed in adult prison? Maybe thats just Louisiana law, but its definetly not right.

 

[QTAllStarGurl]

These are the events that led up to Justin Barker being beat up.its all in the video..i previously posted the link
Sept 06- Nooses hung on tree
Nov 30, 2006- Fire set in school
The next day white students beat up a black student at a party(Nov 31)
Dec 2- White man pulls a gun on 3 black students in a gas station but the students take the gun from him before shots were fired the white guy wasn't changed but the 3 black students were arrested for theft of a firearm
Dec 4, 2006- Jena 6 beat up Justin after making racist comments to the black kid who was beaten up on Nov 31
Then the 16 yr old Mychal Bell was sentenced to 22 years in prison (He remained in jail for 10 months until he was released on Thursday)
So i think some of you should know the facts before you say this shouldn't have been a racial issue