*Stargazer*
Well-known member
Quote:
Fabulous advice.
Originally Posted by wolfsong
be coherent and articulate |
Fabulous advice.
Jena 6
- Thread starter aziajs
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Tash
Well-known member
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If you don't believe in god, then it doesn't matter. Obviously I'm not going to run around burning crosses, but I don't see how it's anything like burning the flag.
| Originally Posted by lafemmenoir
How can an American burn a cross? That's like burning a flag, as "Under God" is at the core of the country the USA is founded upon. |
If you don't believe in god, then it doesn't matter. Obviously I'm not going to run around burning crosses, but I don't see how it's anything like burning the flag.
lafemmenoir
Well-known member
Quote:
Hmm...there's that word. I'm not atheist, the cross was used as a parallel to how Americans have freedom such as hanging nooses, as it pertains to the KKK. I don't care. What is really sad, is how this thread shows how quick people are to turn a friendly atmosphere to insults.
I did not agree with Shimmer in her points, but I respect that those were HER views and that she is passionate and stands firm in them. Just as I don't know all the facts about Jena 6, I do know that people have feelings about them but I attack the argument not the person, but if you push me, I'll push back. I think this is really sad a place where people come to share and entertain, has become so distorted. Look at how something none of us were involved in has transpired this forum. I am not racist, I don't feel the need to justify that anymore. I do feel for both sides on this issue, as I have a white mother and black father. I am not gay, but I would march in Texas if Shimmer were to be attacked for having had a relationship with a woman. This is really pathetic...please don't respond. I'm busy becoming "articulate and coherent."
| Originally Posted by wolfsong
Having a separate section especially for women of colour isnt racist (ive just looked and all the first page is about makeup, |
Hmm...there's that word. I'm not atheist, the cross was used as a parallel to how Americans have freedom such as hanging nooses, as it pertains to the KKK. I don't care. What is really sad, is how this thread shows how quick people are to turn a friendly atmosphere to insults.
I did not agree with Shimmer in her points, but I respect that those were HER views and that she is passionate and stands firm in them. Just as I don't know all the facts about Jena 6, I do know that people have feelings about them but I attack the argument not the person, but if you push me, I'll push back. I think this is really sad a place where people come to share and entertain, has become so distorted. Look at how something none of us were involved in has transpired this forum. I am not racist, I don't feel the need to justify that anymore. I do feel for both sides on this issue, as I have a white mother and black father. I am not gay, but I would march in Texas if Shimmer were to be attacked for having had a relationship with a woman. This is really pathetic...please don't respond. I'm busy becoming "articulate and coherent."
wolfsong
Well-known member
Everyone is entiltled to their opinion - ive made it clear that i believe this. By voicing your opinion and then writing 'please dont reply' is censoring MY opinion. This is a site full of people that probably will never meet, that are basically strangers that converse - how can anything written on here be offensive to someone as they do not know you. You can choose whether their opinion is redundant.
That 'racist' reference was in reply to the voiced opinions on how a 'white only' group would be viewed. I didnt state that you yourself was racist - i dont believe that you are.
There is no insults, only constructive criticism, opinions and observations. This thread is actually a lot less heated then i would imagine from such a serious subject.
Things dont have to be polite and pretty all the time - the worlds not like that. This is an ugly subject, its safe to say conversation about it can turn that way sometimes, but this doesnt mean personal attacks are being made - we are so much more than our views on one subject and as ive stated we are strangers.
I dont take back anything ive written - your posts remain hard for me to get the jist of, but you dont take constructive criticism from me well so it'll be left at that.
As for this thread, i agree its gone off topic. Further communication on this personal issue can be sent via PM if desired. If not fair enough.
That 'racist' reference was in reply to the voiced opinions on how a 'white only' group would be viewed. I didnt state that you yourself was racist - i dont believe that you are.
There is no insults, only constructive criticism, opinions and observations. This thread is actually a lot less heated then i would imagine from such a serious subject.
Things dont have to be polite and pretty all the time - the worlds not like that. This is an ugly subject, its safe to say conversation about it can turn that way sometimes, but this doesnt mean personal attacks are being made - we are so much more than our views on one subject and as ive stated we are strangers.
I dont take back anything ive written - your posts remain hard for me to get the jist of, but you dont take constructive criticism from me well so it'll be left at that.
As for this thread, i agree its gone off topic. Further communication on this personal issue can be sent via PM if desired. If not fair enough.
Raerae
Well-known member
Quote:
Not to try to take this off topic... But to a lot of people living in america, all a cross is, is two pieces of wood/metal/whatever put together.
So you could put cross shaped candles on your birthday cake for all I care and light each and every one of them.
And I "believe" (may be wrong on this) but when a member of a KKK sets a cross on fire, it has nothing to do with bashing the christian religion.
| Originally Posted by lafemmenoir
Burning crosses? How can an American burn a cross? That's like burning a flag, as "Under God" is at the core of the country the USA is founded upon. |
Not to try to take this off topic... But to a lot of people living in america, all a cross is, is two pieces of wood/metal/whatever put together.
So you could put cross shaped candles on your birthday cake for all I care and light each and every one of them.
And I "believe" (may be wrong on this) but when a member of a KKK sets a cross on fire, it has nothing to do with bashing the christian religion.
SparklingWaves
Well-known member
The KKK "claim" they light the cross. They get up in arms about the media saying they burn it. The KKK is supposed to be Christian based. No, it has absolutely nothing to do with bashing any religion. It has to do with something of lighting the spirit of Christ.
My Grandmother told me a great deal about the organization, because she said they would actually just walk in on private church services. She was extremely frightened of the organization.
My Grandmother told me a great deal about the organization, because she said they would actually just walk in on private church services. She was extremely frightened of the organization.
wolfsong
Well-known member
The KKK preach anti-Catholicism. The burning of the cross was a direct insult and threat to religion - however burning crosses is also linked to Satanism and Atheism.
You can read some points about them here (but take it with a pinch of salt - its a public editing site):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ku_Klux_Klan
Apparently to the KKK site the buring of the cross means this:
http://www.kkk.bz/cross.htm
(Though they are a hateful movement that shouldnt be trusted to say the sky is blue IMO).
Its actually interesting to read about their take on history, and how they spin things.
The sick thing is this is the message on the first page of the KKK website:
"Bringing a Message of Hope and Deliverance to White Christian America! A Message of Love NOT Hate!"
You can read some points about them here (but take it with a pinch of salt - its a public editing site):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ku_Klux_Klan
Apparently to the KKK site the buring of the cross means this:
http://www.kkk.bz/cross.htm
(Though they are a hateful movement that shouldnt be trusted to say the sky is blue IMO).
Its actually interesting to read about their take on history, and how they spin things.
The sick thing is this is the message on the first page of the KKK website:
"Bringing a Message of Hope and Deliverance to White Christian America! A Message of Love NOT Hate!"
SparklingWaves
Well-known member
I stand corrected. Thank you for the correct info. Wolfsong. Darn, what aren't they against?
faifai
Well-known member
Quote:
I think the school didn't deal with the noose issue as it should have. If there was a so-called "white" tree and the black kids were expected not to sit there, it seems like it'd be pretty clear across campus that the school was suffering from racial tension. Hanging a noose doesn't cause any physical harm but it certainly can be interpreted as a threat. I don't know if hanging nooses is illegal (inciting a riot, hate crime, etc.) in Jena or not, but the school could've handled the noose issue better.
As for the Jena 6, I don't think it is ever ok for a 6 against 1 fight to take place, regardless of the reason behind it. Was the attempted murder charge harsh? Yeah, but if I was on the receiving end of a 6 against 1 attack then I probably would be fearing for my life. Hanging a noose doesn't physically harm someone, while beating someone into a hospital visit does. One is illegal and the other, not necessarily.
| Originally Posted by lafemmenoir
The point is, it was based on race. It started out of race relations and turned into violence and from there a mecca of abuse of power vs. the law. True, it may be legal to hang a noose where you live, but does that make it something that should protected at a mixed race school? People always want to compare slavery with some other social issue. We can't heal if we keep justifying unequal protection of the law. By the way, since the first amendment grants free speech, should I go into a crowded theatre and yell "FIRE!" and expect no one to want to kick my a$$ afterwards.... |
I think the school didn't deal with the noose issue as it should have. If there was a so-called "white" tree and the black kids were expected not to sit there, it seems like it'd be pretty clear across campus that the school was suffering from racial tension. Hanging a noose doesn't cause any physical harm but it certainly can be interpreted as a threat. I don't know if hanging nooses is illegal (inciting a riot, hate crime, etc.) in Jena or not, but the school could've handled the noose issue better.
As for the Jena 6, I don't think it is ever ok for a 6 against 1 fight to take place, regardless of the reason behind it. Was the attempted murder charge harsh? Yeah, but if I was on the receiving end of a 6 against 1 attack then I probably would be fearing for my life. Hanging a noose doesn't physically harm someone, while beating someone into a hospital visit does. One is illegal and the other, not necessarily.
Raerae
Well-known member
Quote:
U sure about the burning of the cross being an insult?
Their own site depicts it as haveing a positive meaning.
On one hand, you can take burning of a cross as an insult, kinda like someone who is anti American burning a flag. Assuming that person is anti Christian (at it's most basic form, a follower of Christ, so that could be any denomination).
But in the KKK's context, it seems to be a positive (at least from their twisted point of view). So like putting a burning cross on someones lawn is kinda like telling them that god is going to clense them of their sin. Fire is often depicted throughout history as being a force that purifies things. So thats probably why in movies and documentaries (and in real life sadly), when the KKK is threatening someone, they burn (or light) a cross on their lawn. Since it's a message that at least in the KKK's mind, god is going to strike them down.
| Originally Posted by wolfsong
The KKK preach anti-Catholicism. The burning of the cross was a direct insult and threat to religion - however burning crosses is also linked to Satanism and Atheism. |
U sure about the burning of the cross being an insult?
Their own site depicts it as haveing a positive meaning.
On one hand, you can take burning of a cross as an insult, kinda like someone who is anti American burning a flag. Assuming that person is anti Christian (at it's most basic form, a follower of Christ, so that could be any denomination).
But in the KKK's context, it seems to be a positive (at least from their twisted point of view). So like putting a burning cross on someones lawn is kinda like telling them that god is going to clense them of their sin. Fire is often depicted throughout history as being a force that purifies things. So thats probably why in movies and documentaries (and in real life sadly), when the KKK is threatening someone, they burn (or light) a cross on their lawn. Since it's a message that at least in the KKK's mind, god is going to strike them down.
SparklingWaves
Well-known member
It might be a cleansing alright of everyone, but them. They wouldn't approve of me, because I am married to someone of Italian descent. He may be a little too dark for their taste. I guess I could have one of those crosses on my yard for that. It's hard to believe that people think like this.
wolfsong
Well-known member
Quote:
I think its mainly about cleansing as you rightly stated, but being anti-Catholic it could be seen as an insult - they were/are against all religions bar Christianity. Reading back i think i was wrong to put so much assumption on it being religiously inclined - the 'lighting of the cross' reminded me of pagans and wicker men - burning of worship objects doesnt necessarily mean its anti- that religion. Its ceremonial in some cases. I guess im too inclined to think fire =
Their public point of view will always be twisted - they need to recruit and to have the public think that KKK have positive views or are coming from a good place. This is a tactic used by terrorists that employ suicide bombers - its a common reason to how English born citizens can turn on their country: they play the martyr, show the 'good side' to their views, and the victims are in some form brainwashed.
| Originally Posted by Raerae
U sure about the burning of the cross being an insult? Their own site depicts it as haveing a positive meaning. On one hand, you can take burning of a cross as an insult, kinda like someone who is anti American burning a flag. Assuming that person is anti Christian (at it's most basic form, a follower of Christ, so that could be any denomination). But in the KKK's context, it seems to be a positive (at least from their twisted point of view). So like putting a burning cross on someones lawn is kinda like telling them that god is going to clense them of their sin. Fire is often depicted throughout history as being a force that purifies things. So thats probably why in movies and documentaries (and in real life sadly), when the KKK is threatening someone, they burn (or light) a cross on their lawn. Since it's a message that at least in the KKK's mind, god is going to strike them down. |
I think its mainly about cleansing as you rightly stated, but being anti-Catholic it could be seen as an insult - they were/are against all religions bar Christianity. Reading back i think i was wrong to put so much assumption on it being religiously inclined - the 'lighting of the cross' reminded me of pagans and wicker men - burning of worship objects doesnt necessarily mean its anti- that religion. Its ceremonial in some cases. I guess im too inclined to think fire =
Their public point of view will always be twisted - they need to recruit and to have the public think that KKK have positive views or are coming from a good place. This is a tactic used by terrorists that employ suicide bombers - its a common reason to how English born citizens can turn on their country: they play the martyr, show the 'good side' to their views, and the victims are in some form brainwashed.
