Lebanon
- Thread starter Pascal
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blueyedlady87
Well-known member
Quote:
My thoughts exactly. They knew what they were doing when they kidnapped those soldiers and should have been prepared to take the consequenes. It is sad that others have to suffer for their poor choices. I pray constantly for peace in the Middle East.
| Originally Posted by MAC_Whore Pascal: I am sorry to hear of your worries. I hope that you hear from your father soon. I don't know if your father is an american citizen or not, but if he is and you speak to him, tell him to speak with the american embassy. If things escalate to a certain point, they will take measures to evacuate american citizens. Regarding the conflict: I didn't really want to comment on the whole confilct within this thread, but after reading it I felt compellled to say something. I don't see Jews, Palestinians, Lebanese, or Syrians as responsible for any of this. This is a Hezbollah issue. Hezbollah is a tumor. I DO NOT see Hezbollah as representative of all Palestinians, Lebanese or Syrians, because they are not. People need to understand that Hezbollah is their own entity. Hezbollah are terrorists. During a relatively peaceful time, they chose to kidnap an Isreali soldier, then two more. Unfortunately Hezbollah are committing these stupid acts, (ie kidnapping the soldiers), while based within the borders of the West Bank, Gaza, Syria and Lebanon. Isreal is performing counter-measures to get their soldiers returned and unfortunately Hezbollah is attracting that hellfire to Lebanon, the West Bank and Gaza in the process. I wish that the gov'ts of the countries that tolerate Hezbollah within their borders would toughen up and get rid of them. As I said, Hezbollas is a tumor and it needs to be removed. They stirred up this whole mess and opened up old wounds. ETA: Cloverette, I hope you hear from your sister soon. |
My thoughts exactly. They knew what they were doing when they kidnapped those soldiers and should have been prepared to take the consequenes. It is sad that others have to suffer for their poor choices. I pray constantly for peace in the Middle East.
pumpkincat210
Well-known member
I *really* hope this isn't the beginning of ww3.
I think all forms of war are bad. I understand that diplomacy is not working over there, but I also think bombing innocent people is worse.
Bush can't condemn the israel and yet he can't really say it is a good idea either. I hope the U.S. doesn't get drawn into this.. syria and iran will get more involved too and then we'll really have a huge problem.
I think all forms of war are bad. I understand that diplomacy is not working over there, but I also think bombing innocent people is worse.
Bush can't condemn the israel and yet he can't really say it is a good idea either. I hope the U.S. doesn't get drawn into this.. syria and iran will get more involved too and then we'll really have a huge problem.
lemurian
Well-known member
Quote:
Have you been listening to Newt Gingrich again?
It's an ugly situation, but certainly nothing that hasn't happened before. I don't think that Isreal needs help from the US in this case, and even if she did I'm not sure that we're in the position to do so. Our military resources are stretched thin as it is. Isreal is a heavily armed country, a nuclear power, as it were. I think we'll all be safe and sound as usual here in the States. Worst case scenario, we'll be paying $6/gallon for gas, but even that's not so bad from a certain point of view..
To Pascal, I'm so glad that you're father is safe and on his way home, if he's not there already
| Originally Posted by pumpkincat210 I *really* hope this isn't the beginning of ww3. I think all forms of war are bad. I understand that diplomacy is not working over there, but I also think bombing innocent people is worse. Bush can't condemn the israel and yet he can't really say it is a good idea either. I hope the U.S. doesn't get drawn into this.. syria and iran will get more involved too and then we'll really have a huge problem. |
Have you been listening to Newt Gingrich again?
It's an ugly situation, but certainly nothing that hasn't happened before. I don't think that Isreal needs help from the US in this case, and even if she did I'm not sure that we're in the position to do so. Our military resources are stretched thin as it is. Isreal is a heavily armed country, a nuclear power, as it were. I think we'll all be safe and sound as usual here in the States. Worst case scenario, we'll be paying $6/gallon for gas, but even that's not so bad from a certain point of view..
To Pascal, I'm so glad that you're father is safe and on his way home, if he's not there already
Shimmer
Well-known member
Quote:
y'know, if our gas was as heavily taxed as it is in other countries, and we got free health care and free university as other countries with really high gas prices get, I might not mind paying so much for gasoline...
HOWEVER...
Since all that money does is go into some oil execs pockets, it fucking pisses me off to spend 2.50 on a gallon of gas. Not to mention over 3 dollar. This is ricockulous.
| Originally Posted by lemurian Have you been listening to Newt Gingrich again? It's an ugly situation, but certainly nothing that hasn't happened before. I don't think that Isreal needs help from the US in this case, and even if she did I'm not sure that we're in the position to do so. Our military resources are stretched thin as it is. Isreal is a heavily armed country, a nuclear power, as it were. I think we'll all be safe and sound as usual here in the States. Worst case scenario, we'll be paying $6/gallon for gas, but even that's not so bad from a certain point of view..
To Pascal, I'm so glad that you're father is safe and on his way home, if he's not there already
|
y'know, if our gas was as heavily taxed as it is in other countries, and we got free health care and free university as other countries with really high gas prices get, I might not mind paying so much for gasoline...
HOWEVER...
Since all that money does is go into some oil execs pockets, it fucking pisses me off to spend 2.50 on a gallon of gas. Not to mention over 3 dollar. This is ricockulous.
lemurian
Well-known member
Quote:
Yeah, there's that perspective, and then there's the idea that gas prices SHOULD be high, regardless of who profits, just to give people a reason to seek out alternatives
| Originally Posted by shimmer y'know, if our gas was as heavily taxed as it is in other countries, and we got free health care and free university as other countries with really high gas prices get, I might not mind paying so much for gasoline... HOWEVER... Since all that money does is go into some oil execs pockets, it fucking pisses me off to spend 2.50 on a gallon of gas. Not to mention over 3 dollar. This is ricockulous.
|
Yeah, there's that perspective, and then there's the idea that gas prices SHOULD be high, regardless of who profits, just to give people a reason to seek out alternatives
Shimmer
Well-known member
Not trying to be rude, or hijack the thread at but where I'm from specifically, the idea of mass transit is difficult. To live in a rural area a good 25 miles outside of town and expect a bus/train/subway system to be configured based on gas prices is unrealistic.
Granted, currently I live in a much larger city, however owning a compact that gets good gas mileage isn't practical for me because a) of the size of my family and b) the activities (work and extracurricular) we take part in.
Yes, there definitely need to be better fuel alternatives of that I have absolutely no disagreement...but for now, while there AREN'T alternatives that are feasible or reasonable, gas shouldn't be such a lifestyle hindrance like it is, nor should the oil company profits be literally recordbreaking based on nothing more than speculations.
Granted, currently I live in a much larger city, however owning a compact that gets good gas mileage isn't practical for me because a) of the size of my family and b) the activities (work and extracurricular) we take part in.
Yes, there definitely need to be better fuel alternatives of that I have absolutely no disagreement...but for now, while there AREN'T alternatives that are feasible or reasonable, gas shouldn't be such a lifestyle hindrance like it is, nor should the oil company profits be literally recordbreaking based on nothing more than speculations.
feebee
Well-known member
I feel so sad watching the developments in Lebanon... my dad served as part of the Irish UN peacekeeping force over there, he went on four tours of duty there, i remember how proud they all were when the Irish troops eventually left Lebanon (Camp Shamrock) that they had made such a difference and there had been a peaceful conclusion.
I hope everyone who has family and friends there, i hope they are all ok...
I hope everyone who has family and friends there, i hope they are all ok...
Hawkeye
Well-known member
I dont think this is going to lead to WW3-it has the potential easily to escalate. Really-what will be the determining factor is how Iran/Syria respond. They are biting at the heels to do something and if they start responding-then thats when the escalation will begin.
I feel bad for the labaneese PM because he truely feels for his people and to see the stark difference between the different thoughts. It's scary but at the same time, Hezbollah and Hamas, they both knew what they were doing and they should be prepared.
I have to say I have absolutely no sympathy for Hamaz or Hezbollah. I feel bad for the civilians that have to endure this though. That's why I think i really admire and respect the lebaneese PM.
Anyway. We shouldn't freak out yet. Its just something that needs to be watched. That's all
I feel bad for the labaneese PM because he truely feels for his people and to see the stark difference between the different thoughts. It's scary but at the same time, Hezbollah and Hamas, they both knew what they were doing and they should be prepared.
I have to say I have absolutely no sympathy for Hamaz or Hezbollah. I feel bad for the civilians that have to endure this though. That's why I think i really admire and respect the lebaneese PM.
Anyway. We shouldn't freak out yet. Its just something that needs to be watched. That's all
lemurian
Well-known member
In the past few years, Israel has made huge concessions in hopes of achieving peace. To not recognize this is to be blatantly ignorant, which Hezbollah and Hamas apparently are, among others. No matter what the circumstances, any sovereign nation has a right to defend herself. I am in absolute agreement that Israel appears to be targetting civilians unnecessarily, but I have no way of knowing for certain, as the US media spins information to whatever end it likes best. Furthermore, to isolate the incidents of the past several weeks as though there hasn't been an ongoing "war" in this region for generations is silly. Few of us are old enough or educated enough to have the historical perspective required to comment with any authority. Myself included.
As I said before, I think the real tragedy here is the way in which this has affected the lives of those who'd rather have no opinion, wishing only to go about their lives without concern for being blown up. But such are the consequences of war. And Hezbollah has stated flat out that it welcomes open war. So there you go.
As I said before, I think the real tragedy here is the way in which this has affected the lives of those who'd rather have no opinion, wishing only to go about their lives without concern for being blown up. But such are the consequences of war. And Hezbollah has stated flat out that it welcomes open war. So there you go.
Pascal
Well-known member
I have been talking to my dad every morning and evening, he is safe, that's great and all but he is still waiting to leave on the boats/ships from Beirut, everyday he checks to see if his name is on the list for evacuee's but it's not, he has already registered with the embassy and all but it's a matter of time. The longer he stays there the worst it gets. Here in the states the only family I have is my mom, dad, and my only sister. Everyone else is in Lebanon, all my grandparents, uncles aunts and cousins, all in Lebanon. They have lived there their whole lives and are use to all of this.
I remember I went to Lebanon in 1996, and I was in Beirut, there were broken buildings, bombed apartments, everything appeared so fallen apart, and I though to myself Oh My God these were people's homes, people's businesses, people's cars and streets and now look at it all destroyed. Soldiers everywhere guarding the streets, what kind of life is that to live ?
Then six years later I went back it was 2002 and everything was looking so different and so promising. All the old destroyed homes, streets, cars and debris had been removed and new buildings were erected, streets were repaved, it seemed as if everything was back to NORMAL The airport was rebuilt, the airlines operated in a much better way, it felt like you were in America. Everything was so clean and organized.
The last time I went to Lebanon was last year June 2005, I was constantly paranoid, we had outsiders setting bombs amongst Lebanese Politicians and killing them and civilians that happened to be near by. We had the only man who decided to rebuild Lebanon, Beirut his name was Rafik Hariri assasinated. He was a very good man, he's gone now. Everything seemed unpredictable. I was supposed to stay there for a month, I couldn't handle it so I left 2 weeks early and came back to America.
I don't think I will ever be able to visit my country and feel a sense of security and comfort. I was born there and lived there until I was 5 years old, then I came to California and lived here 18 years of my life, I was enjoying the fact that I could go there during the summer every few years and see my family, but now that's out of the picture and WAR has taken over.
Lebanon is probably the size of Los Angeles County multiplied by 3. It's a small country with big problems. It is also a beautiful country as well, with the Mediterranean Sea's beautiful waves, with our history of Crusaders that came through and built their castles along our coast which now lie in ruins over the years. With our SMOG FREE CLEAR BLUE SKIES. Curvy mountain slopes to ski on. Lebanon is the type of country that you can go to the beach, go skiing, and dancing all in one day. Lebanon is a wonderful country to tourists from all over the world. I don't think people appreciates the beautiful land they have been given, the blue skies, and warm Mediterranean waters that exist in Lebanon. Lebanon was PARADISE but has now turned into an INFERNO.
My parents met in Lebanon, they were married there and had my sister and I there, I feel bad for them because they have so many memories of their childhood and of their young adult life in Lebanon. Last year when I went to Lebanon with my mom she went back to the place where she had met my dad over 25 years ago at the beach.
I remember I went to Lebanon in 1996, and I was in Beirut, there were broken buildings, bombed apartments, everything appeared so fallen apart, and I though to myself Oh My God these were people's homes, people's businesses, people's cars and streets and now look at it all destroyed. Soldiers everywhere guarding the streets, what kind of life is that to live ?
Then six years later I went back it was 2002 and everything was looking so different and so promising. All the old destroyed homes, streets, cars and debris had been removed and new buildings were erected, streets were repaved, it seemed as if everything was back to NORMAL The airport was rebuilt, the airlines operated in a much better way, it felt like you were in America. Everything was so clean and organized.
The last time I went to Lebanon was last year June 2005, I was constantly paranoid, we had outsiders setting bombs amongst Lebanese Politicians and killing them and civilians that happened to be near by. We had the only man who decided to rebuild Lebanon, Beirut his name was Rafik Hariri assasinated. He was a very good man, he's gone now. Everything seemed unpredictable. I was supposed to stay there for a month, I couldn't handle it so I left 2 weeks early and came back to America.
I don't think I will ever be able to visit my country and feel a sense of security and comfort. I was born there and lived there until I was 5 years old, then I came to California and lived here 18 years of my life, I was enjoying the fact that I could go there during the summer every few years and see my family, but now that's out of the picture and WAR has taken over.
Lebanon is probably the size of Los Angeles County multiplied by 3. It's a small country with big problems. It is also a beautiful country as well, with the Mediterranean Sea's beautiful waves, with our history of Crusaders that came through and built their castles along our coast which now lie in ruins over the years. With our SMOG FREE CLEAR BLUE SKIES. Curvy mountain slopes to ski on. Lebanon is the type of country that you can go to the beach, go skiing, and dancing all in one day. Lebanon is a wonderful country to tourists from all over the world. I don't think people appreciates the beautiful land they have been given, the blue skies, and warm Mediterranean waters that exist in Lebanon. Lebanon was PARADISE but has now turned into an INFERNO.
My parents met in Lebanon, they were married there and had my sister and I there, I feel bad for them because they have so many memories of their childhood and of their young adult life in Lebanon. Last year when I went to Lebanon with my mom she went back to the place where she had met my dad over 25 years ago at the beach.
lemurian
Well-known member
I really appreciate this post, Pascal. I think it is often difficult for us to put into perspective what life is like in places we've never been, how similar it can be to our own, and just how devastating war can be to an otherwise beautiful and peaceful country. I truly hope that someday you'll be able to revisit your family's home without worry. Someday, I hope, this will all be over and the most important thing we'll have to argue about on these boards is soccer
Hawkeye
Well-known member
Pascal-HUGS. You're daddy will be home soon and safely, I just know it!
I think it's true that the world that was once so beautiful is being so torn. I too hope one day you can visit your country again. I know it must hurt like hell feeling so uncomfortable in your home land. I pray that one day you will get the opprotunity to go back and feel like you are back home and maybe it will be just as beautiful as it was. *HUGS*
Lemurian-I just got to tell you, I love you. You get it. Everyone gets it except for one particular poster. This is not one big bad government attacking one little itty bitty group just for the sake of killing people. It's about one group thats part of a big group that likes to kill people and thus bringing on this conflict.
Sometimes it just infuriates me, I hate war, I don't like war-anyone in their right mind who says they like war has issues but it seems to me this is where 50 years of appeasement gets us. It's the same cycle everytime. Hamas or Hezbollah does something to get Isreal mad. Isreal attacks then Isreal will appease the two then when the two want something else they attack Isreal and the cycle goes on and on and on.
I hope there comes a day when I will be proven wrong when I say the peace process is dead. I actually pray there will come a day when the Middle east has no more wars and Isreal and her neighbors can get along. Then I don't care who does it they can say HAHA youbeabitch is wrong. I will welcome it.
But until now I have reason to believe otherwise. I still do not think this is going to result in a WW unless Iran and Syria get involved. Once they get involved-then we have reason to start getting alarmed. That's why this is so important.
And yes-the media-dont get me started on the media. Liberal, conservative they all twist what is actually happening.
THere are 3 sides to every story-my side, your side and what actually happened. Thats the part we all want to know. What actually has happened and we are getting a very clear picture of it bit by bit.
And Quan-quite frankly, I'm going to lay this out to you as clearly as I can-if they have such poor weaponry, they should've known better than to go up against a country that can wipe them out-it doesn't take a brain surgeon to realize if you do not have the military capability do not start a war or do anything that can make the country that is bigger and has more military power get pissed off at you as which Hezbollah has done. And I will go so far as to say I suspect Hezbollah did this because they delight in the fact civilians are being killed. They are the ones dancing in the streets with every ounce of news that a civilian died.
Rant over.
I think it's true that the world that was once so beautiful is being so torn. I too hope one day you can visit your country again. I know it must hurt like hell feeling so uncomfortable in your home land. I pray that one day you will get the opprotunity to go back and feel like you are back home and maybe it will be just as beautiful as it was. *HUGS*
Lemurian-I just got to tell you, I love you. You get it. Everyone gets it except for one particular poster. This is not one big bad government attacking one little itty bitty group just for the sake of killing people. It's about one group thats part of a big group that likes to kill people and thus bringing on this conflict.
Sometimes it just infuriates me, I hate war, I don't like war-anyone in their right mind who says they like war has issues but it seems to me this is where 50 years of appeasement gets us. It's the same cycle everytime. Hamas or Hezbollah does something to get Isreal mad. Isreal attacks then Isreal will appease the two then when the two want something else they attack Isreal and the cycle goes on and on and on.
I hope there comes a day when I will be proven wrong when I say the peace process is dead. I actually pray there will come a day when the Middle east has no more wars and Isreal and her neighbors can get along. Then I don't care who does it they can say HAHA youbeabitch is wrong. I will welcome it.
But until now I have reason to believe otherwise. I still do not think this is going to result in a WW unless Iran and Syria get involved. Once they get involved-then we have reason to start getting alarmed. That's why this is so important.
And yes-the media-dont get me started on the media. Liberal, conservative they all twist what is actually happening.
THere are 3 sides to every story-my side, your side and what actually happened. Thats the part we all want to know. What actually has happened and we are getting a very clear picture of it bit by bit.
And Quan-quite frankly, I'm going to lay this out to you as clearly as I can-if they have such poor weaponry, they should've known better than to go up against a country that can wipe them out-it doesn't take a brain surgeon to realize if you do not have the military capability do not start a war or do anything that can make the country that is bigger and has more military power get pissed off at you as which Hezbollah has done. And I will go so far as to say I suspect Hezbollah did this because they delight in the fact civilians are being killed. They are the ones dancing in the streets with every ounce of news that a civilian died.
Rant over.
lemurian
Well-known member
Quan, I can see there is no point in arguing with you. But I'd like to point out that no one on this board wishes for civilians to be killed, nor is anyone arguing that they aren't being killed. I'd also like to point out that much of the US media is as much anti-Israel as the rest of the world (unfortunately). The opinions of those of us being particularly vocal here aren't molded by the media, they are molded by history and precedent. And possibly a lack of sympathy for radical terrorist organizations (can you blame us?). Which is not to be confused with a lack of sympathy for Palestinians and Lebanese. I think if you read many of the above entries with a clear mind, instead of one clouded by anger, you'd understand that. War is always frought with injustice, but it serves no purpose to play the blame game. Hope and prayer and kind words for those with family in danger are about the best we can do from here.
Hawkeye
Well-known member
Lemurian-
Yes it is pointless. And she wont even give sources and everything is the US and Isreals fault. Many of us have learned that its pointless through many other threads with her.
The good news is at least she sheds light for us on Hezbollah's point of view (Which-believe it or not is not a shot! Many will say it is but it's not-it actually does give us a point of view from the other side(s) of their thought processes etc. And this is believe it or not valuable!)
Yes it is pointless. And she wont even give sources and everything is the US and Isreals fault. Many of us have learned that its pointless through many other threads with her.
The good news is at least she sheds light for us on Hezbollah's point of view (Which-believe it or not is not a shot! Many will say it is but it's not-it actually does give us a point of view from the other side(s) of their thought processes etc. And this is believe it or not valuable!)
