Let's shoot the animal...for being exactly what the animal is supposed to be?

messhead

Well-known member
When I first heard about the story I was upset that the police officers killed the Tiger, especially because it is an extremely endangered specie. IF it is true that the victim was taunting the tiger than I don't know if I feel so bad for him... No one deserves death, but he shouldn't have done what he did if he did it. I also thought about the police officers, for those saying it was not necessary to kill it, what if it was you in that situation??? I am a true animal lover, however, I would prefer my husband (a fellow police officer) to come home to his family at night.

Nevertheless this is a true tragedy for everyone involved.
 

purrtykitty

Well-known member
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaisyPie
The people attacked were eating at an outdoor cafe.

According to the article Shimmer posted, only one of the victims was at the cafe. The authorities found blood and a shoe in and around the moat near the tiger's enclosure indicating that one of the victims may have been dangling his/her legs down, possibly pointing to one or more people taunting the tiger.
 

redambition

Well-known member
Quote:
Originally Posted by MxAxC-_ATTACK
Tranquilizers are far too slow.
If its killing people, they are going to have to do something about it ASAP, Its sad the tiger had to die ,but If its about to kill some little kids, sorry but its getting shot.Tranquilizers just aren't going to cut it when something like that is happening.\


Perhaps we should think twice before caging up wild animals for the public to stare at.


tranq darts work pretty fast if the appropriate dosage for the animal is in the dart.

DaisyPie - if the people attacked were indeed innocent bystanders - then yes, I have a large amount of sympathy for them. I have heard through the media that it's a possibility that one or more of the people attacked were taunting the tiger and trying to get it out - if that's true then those people did something stupid without any thought of the consequences of their actions.
 

purrtykitty

Well-known member
Quote:
Originally Posted by MxAxC-_ATTACK
Tranquilizers are far too slow.

If that's the case, then why even bother having tranquilizers...why don't all rampaging animals just get shot? I don't believe that's necessarily true. I think zoos and animal control stock tranquilizers for a reason. Because it's the alternative to killing an animal who doesn't know any better.
 

ratmist

Well-known member
I might be the only one thinking it, but accidents happen.

As for the previous incident with Tatiana, where she mauled another zoo keeper: "A year ago, Tatiana reached its paws through a set of bars and tore into zoo keeper Lori Komejan's arm during a regular afternoon feeding at a cage enclosure known as the Lion House in December of 2006. Dozens of zoo visitors were watching the feeding. The Lion House was closed to the public because of that incident and only re-opened three months ago" (from Yahoo! News UK). That's just normal for a tiger. That's not a good enough reason to shoot the tiger or to even "release it into the wild" somewhere.

As for the "animals don't belong in cages" argument, or the "release it back into the wild or in some nature reserve" argument, in Tatiana's species there are "fewer than 400 surviving in the remote forests of Russia’s Sikhote-Alin mountain range, east of the Amur River. Another 600 are kept in captivity (from Times Online). I think returning such a creature, who probably was born into captivity and raised in captivity, back into the wild or even into a nature reserve was clearly not an option. Furthermore, she was part of a breeding programme, which brings me to my next point.

There is a huge difference between cruelty towards animals and the role of zoos like the San Francisco Zoo. Like almost every charity-registered zoo in the world, they are crucial to conservation programmes around the world. So long as there are critically endangered animal species, zoos need to stay open because they are the last refuge for animal species that would otherwise be completely obliterated from existence. They are at the front line, engaging in research, breeding and conservation initiatives around the world, dedicated as pressure groups and charities to help preserve species that would otherwise be left to fade away. If you've ever spoken with any of the scientists running these places, you'd find they spend millions trying to educate the public, motivate the government and generate the research we need to understand the biology of our planet and the role we all must play in conservation. It's not all about taking the kids to the zoo for the day. There is a much bigger picture at stake.

I think the zoo needs to publically take responsibility for the attack, if they haven't already done so. They need to be able to reassure the public that the safety of visitors at the zoo is of paramout importance - even over the safety of the animals.

The tiger wall was reportedly four feet shorter than the recommended minimum height, but there are reports the boys at the zoo, involved in the attack, could've been provoking the animal. The San Francisco Chronicle reported, "San Francisco police are investigating the possibility that one of the victims in the fatal tiger mauling on Christmas Day climbed over a waist-high fence and then dangled a leg or other body part over the edge of a moat that kept the big cat away from the public, sources close to the investigation said Wednesday. The minimal evidence found at the scene included a shoe and blood in an area between the gate and the edge of the 25- to 30-foot-wide moat, raising questions about what role, if any, the victims might have had in accidentally helping the animal escape. (From The San Francisco Chronicle.)

Other reports are denying this. Either way, you can bet the zoo, the handlers and the keepers are heartbroken, both for the family and the tiger. It is a loss for the planet as well as a sad loss for the victim's family.
 

DaisyPie

Well-known member
Quote:
Originally Posted by *Stargazer*
Where did you read that?

That's what they were saying on the TV News here.

I agree that it is the Zoo's fault 100% - if they can't supply a safe and proper habitat for the animals, then don't keep them in a zoo. But if I came across a tiger mauling a person and I only had a gun, I wouldn't hesitate to shoot it. If I had a tranq gun instead then I would obviously have used that, but I wouldn't want to wait around an extra minute or two while someone fetches one if it meant saving someones life.
 

DaisyPie

Well-known member
Quote:
Originally Posted by redambition
tranq darts work pretty fast if the appropriate dosage for the animal is in the dart.

DaisyPie - if the people attacked were indeed innocent bystanders - then yes, I have a large amount of sympathy for them. I have heard through the media that it's a possibility that one or more of the people attacked were taunting the tiger and trying to get it out - if that's true then those people did something stupid without any thought of the consequences of their actions.


Ah okay, I didn't realise it was a provoked attack. When I heard it earlier on the News all they said was the tiger has escaped and mauled some people at an outdoor cafe.
 

ratmist

Well-known member
Also, can I just say, in defense of the zoo:

Everyone seems to be implying or outright claiming that no one at the zoo was prepared for something like this. This is clearly a case where mistakes have been made, but that does not mean that the San Francisco Zoo - and every other quality zoo in the world - does not spend a lot of money on research, planning and development for every enclosure. Until the investigation is complete, it would be stupid for the zoo to issue any further statements. I think everyone should give the zoo and the authorities a chance to explain what exactly happened. There are security cameras all over these places. I wouldn't be surprised if we don't get footage very soon that will explain all of it.

As for the 'gawking at animals = bad' argument, I have to say this: there is a fine balance between ensuring an animal can live safely, peacefully and healthily and ensuring the public can see exactly what the fuss is all about. It's one thing to hear, "Save the gorillas!", but if you've never seen one, you don't know what the fuss is all about. There is no replacement for looking into a gorilla's eyes and being struck with awe at the intelligence staring back into yours. It's that kind of feeling that inspires people to do something to ensure that those species survive. There is a fine line between gawking and visual learning, but a zoo's intention is definitely the latter. And while you're busy learning that the animal is incredible, the scientists and zoos are working together to learn everything we can about it. It's called zoology for a reason, people.
 

tara_hearts

Well-known member
The part that makes me mad is in the article it said they found a shoe and blood INSIDE the enclosure, like someone dangled a leg at it to taunt it. Ugh. I hate they had to kill the tiger
ssad.gif
I agree with everyone who said where the F*ck were the tranquilizer guns?? Shouldn't that go hand in hand with animals that will KILL you if they get out?
 

*Stargazer*

Well-known member
Quote:
Originally Posted by MxAxC-_ATTACK
Perhaps we should think twice before caging up wild animals for the public to stare at.

I agree, to an extent. In situations where an animal benefits greatly from conservation efforts undertaken by zoos and rescues, I find it hard to find fault with the idea of a zoo. But in general, I have issues with caging up wild animals. There is an argument that is made that it helps conservation movements when you have animal ambassadors that people can view. I'm not sure if I wholeheartedly agree with that line of thought, but I do understand the intent behind it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by purrtykitty
I don't think anyone here is saying that they should have let the tiger continue to dine, what we're saying is that the zoo and the police handled the situation very poorly.

I do not fault the police at all. Earlier I asked some questions about their presence. I did some more reading and the cops were there because someone from the zoo called them. They should never ever have been the first line of defense against an escaped animal. The zoo should have taken the first action. I don't find fault with calling the police, but if the zoo didn't attempt to tranquilize this animal first, then their protocol for dealing with this needs to be reviewed. I also just read that the zoo director has admitted that the wall of the enclosure was 4 feet lower than the recommendations made by the national agency that accredits zoos and other sanctuaries. I place the blame for this squarely on the zoo. And the victims if they were in fact guilty of taunting the animal.
 

*Stargazer*

Well-known member
Quote:
Originally Posted by ratmist
There are security cameras all over these places. I wouldn't be surprised if we don't get footage very soon that will explain all of it.

I just heard the director of the zoo saying that they were going to put cameras in the zoo directed at the exhibits to deal with any future issues. I wonder if there is any footage of this. I think it will be interesting to see what happens if there is because there will be the inevitable argument that it should or shouldn't be released to the public.
 

mariecinder

Well-known member
My dad told me about this earlier today and I almost started sobbing. When he told me that the teenagers were prevoking the tiger I got so angry. That poor beautiful cat...sometimes I really hate people.
 

MxAxC-_ATTACK

Well-known member
Quote:
Originally Posted by purrtykitty
If that's the case, then why even bother having tranquilizers...why don't all rampaging animals just get shot? I don't believe that's necessarily true. I think zoos and animal control stock tranquilizers for a reason. Because it's the alternative to killing an animal who doesn't know any better.

tranquilizers are (mainly) made for transporting animals safely. not for stopping a a rampaging animal.
If there is a bear or other large wild animal, walking in a neighborhood, they can safely tranquilize it and remove it. If its currently mauling someone. a tranquilizer will not work quick enough, the sedative has to be pumped through their body and that takes a minute or so.
 

Beauty Mark

Well-known member
I feel bad for the tiger, the police, and any innocent victims. I don't feel bad for the zoo or if the people provoked the tiger. Who the hell provokes a tiger? What kind of dumbass does that seriously? I wouldn't provoked a frickin' squirrel, let alone something that huge and powerful.

I place a lot of blame on the zoo, because why on earth were people allowed to get so close to the tiger. I've seen tigers and lions at zoos, and I don't think I felt like I could get that close to them to taunt them, unless I threw something at them.
 

purrtykitty

Well-known member
Quote:
Originally Posted by MxAxC-_ATTACK
tranquilizers are (mainly) made for transporting animals safely. not for stopping a a rampaging animal.
If there is a bear or other large wild animal, walking in a neighborhood, they can safely tranquilize it and remove it. If its currently mauling someone. a tranquilizer will not work quick enough, the sedative has to be pumped through their body and that takes a minute or so.


According to the article (and the other reports I've heard) the tiger wasn't mauling anyone at the time it was shot dead. The police and zoo personnel had to search for the animal. I'm guessing the poor creature was scared and looking for a safe place to go. In my mind, the zoo and police should have tranq'ed the tiger.
 

Beauty Mark

Well-known member
The police are probably not trained to handle tigers roaming. I'm for animal rights (vegetarian, etc., etc.), but I have to admit I might shoot a tiger if I thought it were rampaging and killing people.
 

MxAxC-_ATTACK

Well-known member
Quote:
Originally Posted by *Stargazer*
I agree, to an extent. In situations where an animal benefits greatly from conservation efforts undertaken by zoos and rescues, I find it hard to find fault with the idea of a zoo. But in general, I have issues with caging up wild animals. There is an argument that is made that it helps conservation movements when you have animal ambassadors that people can view. I'm not sure if I wholeheartedly agree with that line of thought, but I do understand the intent behind it.

I 100% agree, Places like the San Diego Wild animal park have a VERY VERY large park for the "Cat species" to roam (Its amazing, I've been through it). But places like The hotel in Vegas where the Lions have a very small place to roam most of the day just so people can look through the glass at them , makes me sad and angry. (I'd be a pist kitty in that situation too!!)
 

MiCHiE

Well-known member
Stories like these are why I don't really care for zoos and circuses. The only thing I hate more than this is hearing about people who go after sharks that attack swimmers. Sorry, but GTFO of the bodies of water where they live. When they start walking on sidewalks, release your ammo.
 

BRYNN013

Active member
Quote:
Originally Posted by *Stargazer*
Nope, sorry, but if I come up on a tiger that is crouched over someone trying to maul them and then it turns on me, you bet your butt I'm protecting myself with whatever I've got.

You can argue that the Zoo itself didn't have proper procedures in place but I can't blame the people who killed the tiger after it turned toward them. The tiger never should have been in that exhibit after attacking a zookeeper last year. The blame here lies solely with the Zoo, IMO.


I agree. The zoo should have had tranquilizers, but if they weren't there, I would kill that tiger (if I could) so fast... I'm sorry, I like animals they are okay but if they start killing people I think it's time to let them go...
 

nunu

Well-known member
Quote:
Originally Posted by BRYNN013
I agree. The zoo should have had tranquilizers, but if they weren't there, I would kill that tiger (if I could) so fast... I'm sorry, I like animals they are okay but if they start killing people I think it's time to let them go...

But thats wild animals for you. Thats why we differentiate between pets and wild animals. They don't need to be provoked to kill someone/an animal, this is what they do and hence the name wild predators. That's their source of food 'meat'
We can't do much about it because this is what they are this is nature.
 
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