Pregnant 'man', or just 'gay woman living as man and now pregnant'?
- Thread starter Shimmer
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Lizzie
Well-known member
Quote:
I agree with duckduck. He is a man, but I acknowledge that he has female parts. Strictly biologically, he would be a woman but that's it.
The most important part of it is that the baby has two people that love her. There are a lot of babies in the world that don't have anybody.
Originally Posted by duckduck
I would say that scientifically he is a woman, but socially he is a man. So, I would use the male pronoun to refer to him, and speak to him as if I thought he were a man, but still believe that scientifically (genetically) speaking, he's a woman. Genetically speaking, women can have babies. In fact, we were designed to do so. So, if he is a genetic woman, I see no problems with him having a child. Sure it's a little odd, but, from the child's perspective, she will have two parents who love her - who cares what their (scientific or social) genders are? |
I agree with duckduck. He is a man, but I acknowledge that he has female parts. Strictly biologically, he would be a woman but that's it.
The most important part of it is that the baby has two people that love her. There are a lot of babies in the world that don't have anybody.
purrtykitty
Well-known member
I've thought quite a bit about this and I think that she is a very confused woman. First of all, even though she underwent hormone therapy, she maintained her feminine organs. Second of all, she is doing what is most sacred to and the essence of the female form...she's pregnant with a child. If she'd fully gone through the 'change' she would be a he and he would not have the ability to carry a child.
At any rate, I kinda think she's being selfish. It's like she wants the best of both worlds...to carry a child and to be a man. That's not how it works; it's unnatural. Even so, I don't agree with the discrimination the couple faced. That's just not right. Most of all, though, I really feel for this child as she'll grow up very confused with such a stigma. How do you explain to her that her FATHER gave birth to her?! Not to mention the ridicule she'll endure for her parents' lifestyle.
At any rate, I kinda think she's being selfish. It's like she wants the best of both worlds...to carry a child and to be a man. That's not how it works; it's unnatural. Even so, I don't agree with the discrimination the couple faced. That's just not right. Most of all, though, I really feel for this child as she'll grow up very confused with such a stigma. How do you explain to her that her FATHER gave birth to her?! Not to mention the ridicule she'll endure for her parents' lifestyle.
gabi1129
Well-known member
all this shocked me when i first heard about it. but whatever makes him and his wife happy. Its his body and what he chooses to do with it is no ones business but his. As long as they raise the baby in a harm free environment I don’t see any problem.
i can only imagine the discrimination they have gone through and will go through. I feel horrible just thinking about it.
Being gay. I get why he’d want to have his own child. Adopting is a wonderful option but to some people having a baby of your own blood is so much more special. I initially planned on adopting later on in life. However I’ve realized that I would like to get a surrogate mother. If things don’t work out I would adopt and be fine with it. But I would love to try at least. Its very emotional for me and rather hard to explain, so im sorry if I make no sense. Ill try to edit this later to make better sense
i can only imagine the discrimination they have gone through and will go through. I feel horrible just thinking about it.
Being gay. I get why he’d want to have his own child. Adopting is a wonderful option but to some people having a baby of your own blood is so much more special. I initially planned on adopting later on in life. However I’ve realized that I would like to get a surrogate mother. If things don’t work out I would adopt and be fine with it. But I would love to try at least. Its very emotional for me and rather hard to explain, so im sorry if I make no sense. Ill try to edit this later to make better sense
*Stargazer*
Well-known member
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ITA with this post.
If I were interacting with this person, I'd treat him as a man, since that is what he has chosen to be. But the fact remains, internally - at this point - all the lady parts are still there and doing the job they are put there for. It's not really amazing, tbh.
I get kinda weirded out by some of the steps we've taken in the fertility field, but I also know how discriminatory some states are re:adoption so I can't blame them for this decision at all. If I ever were to consider surrogacy, I'd only do it for a gay couple.
I've got three biological children. When DH is done dragging us all over the country, we'd like to adopt to expand our family.
| Originally Posted by Aprilrobin
The thing is, he might be a man, but he's not male. He has female genes and reproductive organs. men don't have wombs. So this isn't really a pregnant man. The story is ure sensationalism. There are many transexuals with children. |
ITA with this post.
If I were interacting with this person, I'd treat him as a man, since that is what he has chosen to be. But the fact remains, internally - at this point - all the lady parts are still there and doing the job they are put there for. It's not really amazing, tbh.
I get kinda weirded out by some of the steps we've taken in the fertility field, but I also know how discriminatory some states are re:adoption so I can't blame them for this decision at all. If I ever were to consider surrogacy, I'd only do it for a gay couple.
I've got three biological children. When DH is done dragging us all over the country, we'd like to adopt to expand our family.
flowerhead
Well-known member
Quote:
agreed. gender & sex are different things.
| Originally Posted by Aprilrobin
The thing is, he might be a man, but he's not male. He has female genes and reproductive organs. men don't have wombs. So this isn't really a pregnant man. The story is ure sensationalism. There are many transexuals with children. |
agreed. gender & sex are different things.
flowerhead
Well-known member
Quote:
what about the male to female in a hetero relationship? or a female to male in a homosexual relationship?
| Originally Posted by Shimmer
If they're not, it's because they didn't make good decisions. He stated that he mainained control of his reproductive rights by keeping his organs. |
what about the male to female in a hetero relationship? or a female to male in a homosexual relationship?
S.S.BlackOrchid
Well-known member
Biologically, I would consider this person a woman.
I don't understand why people freak out about gays or transsexuals having children. There are many straight couples out there who shouldn't be parents and end up being abusive. People should spend their energy freaking out over violent alcoholics, child abusers, etc having kids instead of gay people.
I don't understand why people freak out about gays or transsexuals having children. There are many straight couples out there who shouldn't be parents and end up being abusive. People should spend their energy freaking out over violent alcoholics, child abusers, etc having kids instead of gay people.
Beauty Mark
Well-known member
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WHile I'm not convinced that it's healthy, I'm not sure if the "unnatural" argument works. It's pretty unnatural to undergo fertility drugs or get a surrogate, IMO, just to ensure you have a baby.
There'll be ridicule, but what child does not experience it? I'm not saying that you should purposely do stuff to subject your child as a target, but even living a "normal" life could potentially subject your child to awful behavior. People who have immigrant parents with heavy accents, religion, etc.
| At any rate, I kinda think she's being selfish. It's like she wants the best of both worlds...to carry a child and to be a man. That's not how it works; it's unnatural. Even so, I don't agree with the discrimination the couple faced. That's just not right. Most of all, though, I really feel for this child as she'll grow up very confused with such a stigma. How do you explain to her that her FATHER gave birth to her?! Not to mention the ridicule she'll endure for her parents' lifestyle. |
WHile I'm not convinced that it's healthy, I'm not sure if the "unnatural" argument works. It's pretty unnatural to undergo fertility drugs or get a surrogate, IMO, just to ensure you have a baby.
There'll be ridicule, but what child does not experience it? I'm not saying that you should purposely do stuff to subject your child as a target, but even living a "normal" life could potentially subject your child to awful behavior. People who have immigrant parents with heavy accents, religion, etc.
purrtykitty
Well-known member
Quote:
It's unnatural because its the father giving birth. I agree that fertility treatment, etc. is unnatural, too, but I don't have as big of a problem with that because it's becoming more and more mainstream.
| Originally Posted by Beauty Mark
WHile I'm not convinced that it's healthy, I'm not sure if the "unnatural" argument works. It's pretty unnatural to undergo fertility drugs or get a surrogate, IMO, just to ensure you have a baby. |
It's unnatural because its the father giving birth. I agree that fertility treatment, etc. is unnatural, too, but I don't have as big of a problem with that because it's becoming more and more mainstream.
flowerhead
Well-known member
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most transgendered people cannot have biological children in their relationship, that's all i meant.
| Originally Posted by Shimmer
I don't understand the question. |
most transgendered people cannot have biological children in their relationship, that's all i meant.
sparklingmuse
Well-known member
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im not sure if anyone else has answered this, i just started reading this post. im a psychobio major. something similiar was done with rats, since rats can carry many babies at a time, if the, lets call it 'baby', is genetically female and surrounded by male rats, then the female will be androgenized. with the rats, that just made the female have a few male characteristics, such as being better at mazes etc. it wasnt particularly harmful for the female rat. and i would assume it would be the same for female human babies. usually if hormones are out of whack, and a female has more testosterone, it would just entail more hair, sex drive etc etc.
i am now intrested to see how this unveils
| Originally Posted by gigglegirl
the one thing that majorly concerned me was that he was taking testosterone, his clitoris grew to be a small penis and other I assume masculine traits ensued. Then he went off them for two years before trying to get pregnant. I just wonder (and the ob/gyn said the baby was healthy) but in my mind I wondered how the testosterone may have affected the body and the female organs--was everything "back to normal" before getting pregnant ie. menstruating and the proper baby environment? They said all is fine and healthy so thats good. Did others watch Oprah? I found it interesting, he never said he felt like a man from a young age or that he was necessarily transgendered, just that he wanted to live how he felt but didn't see himself as being in the wrong body. It was quite a contrast from other interviews with people who've undergone sex changes to become what they've felt themselves to be inside from such a young age. |
im not sure if anyone else has answered this, i just started reading this post. im a psychobio major. something similiar was done with rats, since rats can carry many babies at a time, if the, lets call it 'baby', is genetically female and surrounded by male rats, then the female will be androgenized. with the rats, that just made the female have a few male characteristics, such as being better at mazes etc. it wasnt particularly harmful for the female rat. and i would assume it would be the same for female human babies. usually if hormones are out of whack, and a female has more testosterone, it would just entail more hair, sex drive etc etc.
i am now intrested to see how this unveils
flowerhead
Well-known member
Quote:
so a male to female transsexual could have (biological) children in a relationship with a man?
| Originally Posted by Shimmer
They could if they protected their reproductive rights like this woman did. |
so a male to female transsexual could have (biological) children in a relationship with a man?
Shimmer
Well-known member
Quote:
Certainly, there are options available to a male to female TS. Those options are there, whether it's freezing sperm & using a surrogate, not having the operation, or a slew of other options I'm sure a doctor could explain.
Obviously, it's two genetic men, and genetically speaking male/male isn't going to produce offspring, but that's not to say that each man can't father a child with a surrogate.
| Originally Posted by flowerhead
so a male to female transsexual could have (biological) children in a relationship with a man? |
Certainly, there are options available to a male to female TS. Those options are there, whether it's freezing sperm & using a surrogate, not having the operation, or a slew of other options I'm sure a doctor could explain.
Obviously, it's two genetic men, and genetically speaking male/male isn't going to produce offspring, but that's not to say that each man can't father a child with a surrogate.
flowerhead
Well-known member
Quote:
sure, but my original point was that this person is lucky to be able to have a biological child with his partner, whilst most transgendered people can't...
| Originally Posted by Shimmer
Certainly, there are options available to a male to female TS. Those options are there, whether it's freezing sperm & using a surrogate, not having the operation, or a slew of other options I'm sure a doctor could explain. Obviously, it's two genetic men, and genetically speaking male/male isn't going to produce offspring, but that's not to say that each man can't father a child with a surrogate. |
sure, but my original point was that this person is lucky to be able to have a biological child with his partner, whilst most transgendered people can't...
sparklingmuse
Well-known member
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i agree, i took a class on this at my university and had to write a 15 pg paper on this. The statistics have shown that children of gay, lesbian, transgender parents do not then have gay, lesbian, or transgender children. (they are not influenced to become gay) its actually shown to be the opposite, these children actually are really firm in their gender roles. For example, if the mother gives the child gender neutral toys the child will still prefer and insist on gender related toys instead. these children are also tolerant of other viewpoints, and are usually better adjusted because the statistics have shown that they have authoritative parents, not permissive etc.
| Originally Posted by duckduck
I As for adopting, I don't know if this would be possible. The people who live across the way from us adopted two girls at 14 and 15 years old who couldn't be adopted by their lesbian foster parents. They loved their foster parents dearly, and very much wanted to be adopted by them, but the State of California said no, and wanted to transfer them to another foster home. This other couple's case may be different since legally, he is a man. I would guess, however, that sexual reassignment precludes one from ever being able to adopt. And, before anyone says or thinks it, the two girls who were raised by the lesbians are not now man-hating lesbians. . |
i agree, i took a class on this at my university and had to write a 15 pg paper on this. The statistics have shown that children of gay, lesbian, transgender parents do not then have gay, lesbian, or transgender children. (they are not influenced to become gay) its actually shown to be the opposite, these children actually are really firm in their gender roles. For example, if the mother gives the child gender neutral toys the child will still prefer and insist on gender related toys instead. these children are also tolerant of other viewpoints, and are usually better adjusted because the statistics have shown that they have authoritative parents, not permissive etc.
Beauty Mark
Well-known member
Quote:
I don't believe something becoming mainstream makes it necessarily natural or good. Honestly, a lot of things we do are pretty unnatural. It's unnatural for me to take birth control or when people take that birth control that gives you a handful of menstrual cycles. While this man is transgendered, he's biologically female. It's not like they implanted a fertilized egg in a biological man.
I imagine people have technically been born to their fathers before; some people discover that they're transgendered after they have children.
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I find it funny that people think gay people raise gay children, since obviously straight people raise gay children. I also find it funny that it's such a bad thing for gay people to raise gay children; I don't believe sexual orientation should be forced upon anyone, though, regardless of what it is.
| It's unnatural because its the father giving birth. I agree that fertility treatment, etc. is unnatural, too, but I don't have as big of a problem with that because it's becoming more and more mainstream. |
I don't believe something becoming mainstream makes it necessarily natural or good. Honestly, a lot of things we do are pretty unnatural. It's unnatural for me to take birth control or when people take that birth control that gives you a handful of menstrual cycles. While this man is transgendered, he's biologically female. It's not like they implanted a fertilized egg in a biological man.
I imagine people have technically been born to their fathers before; some people discover that they're transgendered after they have children.
Quote:
| The statistics have shown that children of gay, lesbian, transgender parents do not then have gay, lesbian, or transgender children |
I find it funny that people think gay people raise gay children, since obviously straight people raise gay children. I also find it funny that it's such a bad thing for gay people to raise gay children; I don't believe sexual orientation should be forced upon anyone, though, regardless of what it is.
Babylard
Well-known member
wow, i am shocked. i am not shocked by the couple (i am generally very open-minded and tolerant), but I am deeply shocked by how unprofessional those doctors were. i've always admired doctors to be people who would help anyone, regardless of differences and beliefs. in a nutshell, i feel that doctors should always be righteous, so that everybody is entitled to treatments and help for their problems (even the more unique ones).
to think that there were doctors who refused helping the couple (who were willing to pay) due to beliefs, i am truely disgusted. if i were to be a doctor or worked with people, i would make it my point to treat everyone with equality.
i heard about this couple on oprah and i was more interested in how this man got pregnant. thanks for filling in the gap. the fact that he is transgender with female organs makes sooo much more sense... at some point i thought he was a human hermaphrodite LOL...
anyways, there are families of many kinds. i am sad that the couple faces any descrimination. doesn't really matter how the family became, it just matters to me that they raise the child with love and care.
to think that there were doctors who refused helping the couple (who were willing to pay) due to beliefs, i am truely disgusted. if i were to be a doctor or worked with people, i would make it my point to treat everyone with equality.
i heard about this couple on oprah and i was more interested in how this man got pregnant. thanks for filling in the gap. the fact that he is transgender with female organs makes sooo much more sense... at some point i thought he was a human hermaphrodite LOL...
anyways, there are families of many kinds. i am sad that the couple faces any descrimination. doesn't really matter how the family became, it just matters to me that they raise the child with love and care.
