Reader's Digest Author of the Year: Richard Dawkins for "The God Delusion"

[eulchen]

i enjoyed reading this thread and i really love emma_frosts comments.


i am not baptized, which makes me not only an atheist but firstly a heathen. my parents (father baptized, dropped out of church with 14, mother never baptized, never in a church) raised me according to the humanistic ideals, which may seem a lot like the christian moral standards (dont steal, dont kill, etc., except the part concernign god) which is not only because they evolved in the same cultural space but also because they are, in my opinion, common sense (they havent been at all times i know)

i was raised and taught by my parents why to be good, how to act good and ethical and they also taught me that I am responsible for anything that i do, i cannot blame anybody else if i do not live up to the moral standards that i believe in. they are my belief, and i dont follow them because somebody wrote them down sometime ago in a language i cannot speak before it was translated several times in languages i also cannot speak until finally somebody made it understandable for me and somebody else explained me how i have to udnerstand it. there are tons of translating mistakes in the bible. the bible itself has been censored, changed etc. over the centuries, i dont know why this should be the truth, especially in its todays editions.

i dont like it when somebody wants to "convince" me that their belief is better than mine. its not a single dot more worth than mine, its equal. i dont want you to change youre belief, let me live mine. i have friend that are christian, my boyfriend is probably the most important of those, and i like the way they are christian. yes they do believe in god, but they don´t use it as an excuse for what they are doing. my boyfriend has had an equally humanistic education like i had and is open to everything. he likes to study the nature (that is why hes studying natural sciences) and human relationships. he has not only a good knowledge of the bible, but has also read the koran and several books about buddhism and hinduism to see how this is, and this open view of the world is a major part why were together. antoher is that in the three years were together he did not once try to convert me.


sorry for long post, but this is something i feel strongly about

 

[MAC_Whore]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Emma_Frost ...It's Christians who have ruined the world......

Nah, I think that we can spread the blame a bit wider than that.

 

[Raerae]

I blame the great spheghetti monster.

 

[MxAxC-_ATTACK]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raerae I blame the great spheghetti monster.

..damn him.. with his spaghetti fingers and toes...leaving sauce everywhere he is.

 

[blueyedlady87]

Tough subject. I will choose my words carefully. First of all I have been many things- atheist, Christian, even Wiccan. In my opinion it takes more faith to believe that humans and the world was created in a single bang. I mean, that's not even *good* science fiction. Lol! I hasten to say I'm religious and I'm certainly no bible thumper. But I believe in God. I can't stand church for the reasons mentioned above, (hell, fire, brimstone anyone?) but I pray daily. I think 'Christians' have screwed themselves over by being too preachy and sort of out-of-touch with reality. But in a world with decreasing morals, you gotta draw the line somewhere- where is the hard part. Can I prove my God? Not anymore than you can prove he doesn't exist. But I have noticed that when I wanted to do what I wanted in life without guilt or consequence I turned to atheism or wiccan. Coincidence? I'd never condemn anyone for not believing in God. That is a person's choice. But I would say that anyone's beliefs (in God, Budha, Allah, etc.) can be defined as a personal delusion unique to each person. IE- 'my' God is different from a Catholic person's God, a pastor's God, and even my parent's God. God is something different to all people, but is still the same being.

One more thing, I had to laugh at the following-

"The Christian resolution to find the world ugly and bad has made the world ugly and bad."

This world is an ugly place because humans aren't perfect. We rape, kill, steal, lie, etc. By most people's definitions these things are ugly and bad. I don't think any religion in and of itself is bad, it's certain people in it who make it bad. Religions of all kind for the most part promote peace, love, compassion, mercy, and equality. How does this make the world ugly?

 

[Dark_Phoenix]

Quote:

Originally Posted by barbie_doll_713 One more thing, I had to laugh at the following- "The Christian resolution to find the world ugly and bad has made the world ugly and bad." This world is an ugly place because humans aren't perfect. We rape, kill, steal, lie, etc. By most people's definitions these things are ugly and bad. I don't think any religion in and of itself is bad, it's certain people in it who make it bad. Religions of all kind for the most part promote peace, love, compassion, mercy, and equality. How does this make the world ugly?

It's Nietzsche. Negative man.
The point he was trying to make is the hellfire and brimstone mentality of Christianity has cast a dark film on the world, obscuring our view (metaphorically of course). That because of the Christian belief in original sin, the inherent evil of mankind, and our weakness as humans compared to God we will do bad things.

So... in a nutshell, because this mentality of "Humans are born impure, they will commit impure acts, so therefore they must repent via penance" instead of "Humans are trying their best, we don't know what can happen" they (the Christian majority government during Nietzsche's time, which was 1880's Germany) didn't exactly hold people in high regard and as a result have made the world seem dismal. Like they're all going to do bad things instead of beleiving in the good.

Christianity holds that Good and Evil must co-exist... if we are believing we're all skewed towards acting impurely then the world will kinda suck if we focus our lives around only prayer and penance.

 

[blueyedlady87]

Taking in that context, the quote makes a bit more sense. Good point. Of course good and evil must coexist. But just because I know I'll probably screw up in the future doesn't make me give up. I want to try to a better person in all aspects, not for 'God' but for ME! And part of that is regretting when I screw up. As long as a religion is about bettering oneself I don't see why everyone else has a right to say it doesn't exist, (again any religion even Scientology isn't bad in itself as long as people are about working on themselves, not just converting others.) A wise person once said lead by example not by words. Maybe if some Christians would just shut up and quit condemning others, they could 'lead by example.' Seems to me you get more bees with honey than vinegar. I respect all beliefs (and nonbeliefs) but I don't necessarily agree with them.

"I may despise what you say but will defend your right to say it to the death."

-Can't remember who said that but it's kinda appropriate here.

 

[eulchen]

i think it was voltaire but i could also have been rousseau

im not the opiniont that religion necessarily is something bad. i am the opinion that (organized, institutionalized) religions can be/have been/will be used by people to do things that are not good. something i do like and would consider is buddhism. start for one that to be a buddhist you do not have to leave youre "original" religion. you just have to live by the budhhist principles. i think thats pretty openminded and tolerating by a religion, things i havent seen much with any of the other major religional institutuions

 

[Raerae]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MxAxC-_ATTACK spaghetti fingers and toes

OMG HEATHEN!!!!! BLASPHEMY!!!!

IT'S NOODLY APPENDAGE!!!!!!

You have angered the Sisterhood of the Sauce! Beware!

 

[eulchen]

actually my geography professor responsible for our earth history education is a follower of the spaghetti monster since hes frustrated by all the creatonists he has to discuss with everytime he goes on a journey to the usa...

 

[blueyedlady87]

Yep the quote was Voltair (however ya spell it!) It's posted in my government class and I check it today. Interesting. Freedom of religion is a beautiful thing.

 

[Gemstone]

Hello all,

I would like to present a very simple challenge to all of you. The scripture says "seek God and He will reveal Himself to you." If you are unsure that there is a God, or have not experienced His presence, then I would state that you have not fully sought for Him.

Jer. 29:13, Deut.4:29, Ps. 9:10, Prov. 8:17b, Jer. 33:3, Heb. 11:6b, James 4:8

Gemmy

 

[*Stargazer*]

Here we go again.

 

[Raerae]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gemstone Hello all, I would like to present a very simple challenge to all of you. The scripture says "seek God and He will reveal Himself to you." If you are unsure that there is a God, or have not experienced His presence, then I would state that you have not fully sought for Him. Jer. 29:13, Deut.4:29, Ps. 9:10, Prov. 8:17b, Jer. 33:3, Heb. 11:6b, James 4:8 Gemmy

God and I have a great relationship, we actually went to Vegas last summer. You should have seen him in the clubs. HOT!

 

[MxAxC-_ATTACK]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raerae God and I have a great relationship, we actually went to Vegas last summer. You should have seen him in the clubs. HOT!

He can dance up a storm! literally!

 

[Dark_Phoenix]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gemstone Hello all, I would like to present a very simple challenge to all of you. The scripture says "seek God and He will reveal Himself to you." If you are unsure that there is a God, or have not experienced His presence, then I would state that you have not fully sought for Him. Jer. 29:13, Deut.4:29, Ps. 9:10, Prov. 8:17b, Jer. 33:3, Heb. 11:6b, James 4:8 Gemmy

You can't search for something you have full faith in the non-existence of. And your Bible citations don't help the non-beleivers

 

[Gemstone]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Emma_Frost You can't search for something you have full faith in the non-existence of. And your Bible citations don't help the non-beleivers

Just ignore the Bible citations, take the challenge!

 

[Gemstone]

You all tickle me!

 

[Dark_Phoenix]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gemstone Just ignore the Bible citations, take the challenge!

Why do you beleive in God? Are you afraid? Are you in pursuit of something greater? Why do you think there is a higher entity?

It's no challenge for me. I've searched from the pages of books, to the depths of my heart and I beleive there is no God.

I'm going to believe in Mankind, unopressed by the constraints of theism. The master-slave morality of Christianity and theism in and of itself I find oppressing, Atheism is the liberation.

Mankind has been fighting and repairing against the mistakes your God made thousands of years ago; I see no divine interventions, no end of days, and we're left to clean up our world. Christianity is the blemish of mankind and it's insanity and pack morality has oppressed millions.

Atheism is bloodless. It's Christianity and theism that have killed millions. Atheism is the "peace movement"; its not inspiring, it's thought provoking. It questions and analyzes, it doesn't inspire men to march to war or for revolts in the streets.

I don't claim to know anything. I don't know for certain how the world was created or my purpose (other than to live this life to it's fullest. I'm not wasteing any more of my life praising the unknown, an invention of Man). I have no clue about many of the things on this earth. I don't think any of us can answer all the unknown questions in life.

It's only the believers who claim to know it all.

(copy pasted from my previous post)

 

[Gemstone]

Why do you beleive in God? Are you afraid? Are you in pursuit of something greater? Why do you think there is a higher entity?

Afraid... no. In pursuit of something greater... yes. I believe there is a higher entity because I have encounted the spiritual realm in a number of ways. Even Eienstein did not think himself so wise as to disclaim the possibility of God.

I don't beleive in any higher entity.

I'm going to believe in Mankind, unopressed by the constraints of theism. The master-slave morality of Christianity and theism in and of itself I find oppressing, Atheism is the liberation.

I do not feel like a slave at all. I do not have a master, but a kindly father.

Mankind has been fighting and repairing against the mistakes your God made thousands of years ago; I see no divine interventions, no end of days, and we're left to clean up our world. Christianity is the blemish of mankind and it's insanity and pack morality has oppressed millions.

Many people are turned off because of the autrocities that people have committed "in the name of Christianity." I appologize to all of you for these terrible mistakes.

Atheism is bloodless. It's Christianity and theism that have killed millions. Atheism is the "peace movement"; its not inspiring, it's thought provoking. It questions and analyzes, it doesn't inspire men to march to war or for revolts in the streets.

I have had a couple personal encounters with Athesists, and found one to make his own rules, resulting in socially unacceptable behavior, the other person was simply sad.

I don't claim to know anything. I don't know for certain how the world was created or my purpose (other than to live this life to it's fullest. I'm not wasteing any more of my life praising the unknown, an invention of Man). I have no clue about many of the things on this earth. I don't think any of us can answer all the unknown questions in life. It's only the believers who claim to know it all.

Life was meant to be enjoyed. I don't know it all either. I do know that God sees you as very precious, and is interesed in your every tear, your every hardship, your every joy.

Gemmy