Religion

[Chic 2k6]

IMO i'm not a religious person and doesnt go to church either but is some religion a sham? Like Kabbalah etc.. and I do respect people who are religious cos they made that choice not us, but I discussed this with my cousin and she said that there were some Christians preaching to her RE Class and felt like they were trying to convert her and her friends to Christianity, which annoys us cos we chose not to be religious.

Does anyone feels like this?

 

[browneyedbaby]

I think calling any religion a sham is inappropriate.

I don't think people are necessarily trying to convert you, especially in schools. It's easy to view it this way when they are discussing a subject that you don't believe in or relate too. A lot of the time it's just passion for the subject matter, such is the nature of religion.

I do object to people preaching on the street however, it feels like the wrong forum to me.

 

[Shimmer]

All Christians are trying to convert other people to Christianity.
Christians have no respect for anyone else's religion.
Christians expect wives to be submissive to husbands and do nothing but breed and beat the Bible.
Christians believe in removing anyone who doesn't agree with them.
Christians believe that all who are not Christians are heathens.
Christians are narrow minded and full of hate, and use God's name to cover up that hatred.
Christians and Christians only use the name of the Lord to rationalize killing.
Christians espouse certain morals but don't really apply them to their own lives.
Christians aren't educated about anythign but their own narrow point of view and refuse to consider the points of anyone else.


Does that about cover it?
[/end sarcasm]



I'm not necessarily being sarcastic at anyone specifically, however it is the height of frustration that anyone else in the world is allowed to state an opinion, EXCEPT a Christian.
Once a Christian states a belief, and explains the belief, s/he is attacked for 'trying to convert' someone else.

blah.

 

[quandolak]

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[Shimmer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by quandolak seriously thats the firstcase ive ever heard of this...cos ive not seen this ever..and ive spen my whole life around very religous christians and they have never once been attacked over their beliefs....but i maybe think where you live there are more religious christians than there are here...here people are mostly of the non practising variety..

Example?
Christians were speaking in the school or class & because they were Christians, the original poster and her friend felt as though they were targets for 'conversion'.
*shrug*
My perception is one that I have discussed with many, and many see it.
Those who don't generally are not followers of any branch of Christianity.

 

[quandolak]

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[Shimmer]

Used to be as in when you were a child? Or much younger? I read that you were "forced to be" and then when you came of age you chose your own path?

 

[Hawkeye]

I think I understand what you are asking, and in a way I kind of agree. A sham is not the best way to put it, but really the best way to put it is are some religions more for notoriety and money than others?

It is my belief, and this coming from someone who it is like pulling teeth for me to admit my faith in Christianity because of the many people who cannot distinguish where exactly (if you'll forgive this term as it is very loosely) where their loyalties lie. However, this is NOT just christianity it's every religion there is.

Religion is a very deep and personal thing, and if you choose not to be religious, it's fine. Others will disagree with me but the truth is 1) its your life, 2) no one can tell you how to live it 3) if they do RUN


and i think thats what the fear is in a lot of the religions you become pushed out because you believe differently (look at Scientology)

So its all good

 

[quandolak]

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[Throwaway Style]

I think that it's instinct for people to want to find answers to questions, and of course there are certain questions that people were not able to answer in the past, and questions we can't even answer for sure today, such as why are we here, how was the earth made, etc.
I think that many people used religion as an answer to these questions, since it offers answers to many of the questions, of couse the beliefs got passed down through generations, and bam, here we are.
Of course religion in many cases is not as extreme as it had been, the church does not have QUITE the same power it used to, but religion is still extremely present in politics and other things like that, because many desicions come down to the politicians morals, and their morals are often influenced by their religion.
Me personally, I don't care if there is anything up there, any divine power, I don't want to spend all my life wondering why we're here and trying to be faithful to something up above with more power than anyone here on earth. as far as i'm concerned brian molko or david bowie are as much of gods as anything else.

 

[quandolak]

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[Hawkeye]

quandolak-again it just goes down to the matter of ignorance. I know you say you haven't seen it and I do believe you.

It just shows itself in different ways and since you are in the UK it will show us differently here in the US then what it would be like in the UK.

I know of many instances here in the US where there was ignoring of the Christian ideals and beliefs (like what the hell is a Holiday Tree? It's a Christmas Tree damnit! if you don't like it get over it!) and really stupid trivial things (like the Christmas tree I mentioned) because they don't want to "offend others".

And even though most will be inclined to agree with me it's really just a few people who have a stick up their ass that will challenge things legally.

It's also a huge thing with the school systems so we don't "offend" anybody. But my solution to the problems are often scoffed at because I don't agree with the ideal of teaching religion in schools and if they do they should have a seperate class where they can teach various forms of wisdom of the Bible the Quaran etc, but the ignorance among many followers and athiests etc scares them so therefore they dont want it.

Humans are such a very odd bunch.

But anyway-the religions you mentioned aren't really even muted before they talk. They are actually listened to by many people.

If you really want a religious faith that has been muted look towards the native americans. Their faith and religions have been muted by Chrisitianity to the point where it was psycological, physical and emotional warfare to make them break but those that believed in it to such a degree they held on to it and are now passing it down.

I guess thats why I say there is a lot more than we give it credit for because I've seen both sides of the fence.

 

[Parishoon]

youbeabitch-i agree w/ the christmas tree, i remember when you could have & decorate one in your class room. i think ppl are trading one form of fanatacism for another in the disguise of tolerance & equality for all
Chic, i had to split it up b/c it seems you are discussing 2 very different things
Quote:

Originally Posted by Chic 2k6 IMO i'm not a religious person and doesnt go to church either but is some religion a sham? Like Kabbalah etc.. and I do respect people who are religious cos they made that choice not us,

Kabbalah is an religious sect, not a religion into itself. What your question, or at least of Kabbalah as an example is when religion is co-opted by "pop culture" and turned into a fad. IMO that cheapens whatever religious beliefs one might have.

To me, spirituality and religiousity are not mutually exclusive, but are also not mutally inclusive. ie you can be spiritual & not belong to an organized religion, or belong to an organized relgion & not be spiritually involved, but then ppl can be both as well.

& if you did respect ppl who chose to be religious, to me, that includes accepting them actually practicing the tenants of their faith.
For example:

• Christians are supposed to prostelitize, share the love of Christ w/ others & invite them to accept Him as their savior.

• Many younger Muslim women (particularly converts) in the US who wear hijab (head scarves) do it b/c they view it as fard (required of them) not b/c some male figure in their life forces them too

• Mormons are supposed to avoid caffiene and alcohol b/c of its addictive properties and the fact it alters your natural state

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chic 2k6 but I discussed this with my cousin and she said that there were some Christians preaching to her RE Class and felt like they were trying to convert her and her friends to Christianity, which annoys us cos we chose not to be religious. Does anyone feels like this?

IS RE religious education?
Now i cannot control how anyone approaches a situation except myself, but i have often been on the recieving end of prostelitization (i make up words all the time) and i didn't view it as a threat b/c i am comfortable where i am spiritually and religiously so instead i took it to be a learning experience. You can never loose anything by honestly taking the time to listen to what some one is saying. I've asked them questions before as well, not to trip them up, but to help me better understand where they're coming from.

I also interpreted your question (perhaps incorrectly) as you choose not to be religious & you would rather ppl not share that with you.
It had a slight tinge of the qualifying something by stating how tolerant you are before you go about how much you dislike it (egregious ex: I'm not racist, I have a black friend, or something to that effect)

The tone of the statement (which i am attributing to perhaps being an ESL speaker) caused ppl to be on the defensive immediately rather than being open to discussing your question.

Now that the long story is over, no, I don't get annoyed when ppl try to convert me, but rather when they do so in an offensive manner (there was a group of traveling Baptists who used to harass students at my campus once a semster, calling all girls sluts and whores, and yelling at everybody, quite rude, and making young children like 7or8 wear these sandwich board signs that declared everyone going to hell).
And while I do believe aspects of religion today have been cheapened either by religious authorities who abuse power or use of religion as a fad, I don't have the authority to call them a sham.

 

[Shimmer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by parishoon Now that the long story is over, no, I don't get annoyed when ppl try to convert me, but rather when they do so in an offensive manner (there was a group of traveling Baptists who used to harass students at my campus once a semster, calling all girls sluts and whores, and yelling at everybody, quite rude, and making young children like 7or8 wear these sandwich board signs that declared everyone going to hell).

Quite sad that those people claimed to be something they weren't. No normal Baptist (Southern or otherwise) acts in this manner.

RE: Mormons.
THAT belief system is harder for me to swallow than Scientology. Probably because I am Baptist, and EVERYTHING the Mormon system is about is considered perversion of beliefs...*shrug*
My SIL is Mormon, which makes for interesting debates when she and my brother (who happens to be Southern Baptist) get riled.

 

[mona971]

I'm not a member of any religious group but I have to say if I were to ever attend a church on a regular basis it would be Southern Baptist. I attended as service once while in the South visiting a friend and I was in awe of the amazing voices and the energy and passion of the service - I LOVED it (and the people are very friendly and welcoming)

 

[quandolak]

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[Parishoon]

oops, didn't mean to imply all baptists were like that, just that one group (an example of a few wackos giving everyone a bad name i suppose)
i used to go w/ a friend to Youth Group (i the songs were really catchy & positive). Our BCM actually begged them not to come & sent a letter to the school paper saying we're not all like this, invited ppl to an open house.

I was trying to list some of the more "controversial" things that ppl who chose to follow a faith do as an example that while I can't ever imagine a life w/o caffiene, I need to respect their choice & not say slip some coffee in their juice or do other things to undermine their practicing of their faith.
but the Mormons are a unique breed that I will never understand, just like the thetans controling my every move

 

[quandolak]

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[kimmy]

i think it's fucked up to try and tell anyone what religion is right or wrong. of course, you believe yours is right and i mine...but it's a personal thing.

my parents didn't raise me or my sister with a religion. my dad told me that was because he wanted us to make our own decisions on what religion we wanted to be when we were old enough to understand religion as a whole and religious sects. my sister turned out a Protestant...i still have yet to figure out which religion i will follow, if any.

take them calling your religion a sham as a grain of salt, they're stupid if they think that.

 

[Rina_cz]

*Notes the inner workings of the dialectic process....*