Religion

[Chic 2k6]

There's a lot of strong opinions and everyone got their own opinion. There has been news around the UK where Christmas Decorations may be banned in public e.g. xmas trees in town squares, christmas lights in the air, in shops etc.. this is because Muslims finds it offensive, we do try and make it suitable for Muslims so they can feel at home here, i mean xmas last year in my town toned down alot more than they used to be.

But what gets me is that one of the council members of the three areas is a Muslim and he says that he enjoys Xmas.

I have to admit that maybe i was a bit too strong on the Christianity Faith and I am aware there are other religions out there, and i didnt mean to call Kabbalah a sham cos its that lots of people are doing it because Madonna and Britney does it.

 

[quandolak]

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[Lalli]

^^totally agree, im a muslim living in the uk i couldnt care less if there was xmas tree up around my town centre, i think they look pretty and i dont find them offensive

 

[as_cute_as_pie]

agreed about the RE thing
i absolutly despised it for loads of reasons some of which i shall not mention

but it did feel like you HAD to be part of a religion or else kinda thing

 

[NtheSticks]

Well I won't speak for places other than the USofA, because a-I haven't been to the UK or Aussieland (tho I have friends who have) and b-I'm not necessarily familiar with the northern part of my country, tho I *have* been there. Christians here don't face beatings or jailings, altho it might come to that before long, as persecution. What we do face is being unable to say a prayer before a high school football game because it might offend someone and we must have seperation of church and state. (seperation of church and state is not in the constitution, btw) What we do face is being told we're 'shoving our religion in <who EVER protests> face' if we say a prayer in a public restaraunt/eatery and someone is eavesdropping or if we are visiting to share our faith and invite you to attend. What we do face is that every religion and sect BUT Christianity can be mentioned and studied in our schools. There can be no mention of Christ, or Christmas, or any other reference to a Christian holiday - but Hanukkah, Kwanzaa, Ramadan, Boxing Day, and Halloween can ALL be mentioned and studied without fear of offending anyone.

I must ask, why is it offensive to someone to have a prayer asking for the safety and good sportsmanship of the players during the game, and safe travels back home for the visiting team and fans? And why can't someone who believes in no god or whatever just respect those that do? I'm supposed to respect those that don't, but they forget that respect is a two-way street.

But I also have to ask someone who said they'd make their decision when they were older - (and I'm serious here, ok?) If a child is not given information and training at a young age how are they going to make an educated or informed decision when they are older?

From a Christian standpoint: The secular world is bombarding us with information and points about standards ALL day long, from before the time a child is old enough to know what anything is. And we are being told that we have to change, to 'grow with the times' or we'll loose out. So, as a parent, if I want my kiddo to hold to a higher ideal and set of standards for herself, I have to teach her. If I teach her my standards, and where they come from, she will have a better chance at avoiding many of the pitfalls the world says is all right, when in reality, they can be very destructive and not what someone who is supposed to be set apart needs to mess with. How can someone make choices without information to base them on?

So don't be so quick to 'take offense' and get a little thicker skinned. you can always say 'I'll take your information under consideration, Thank you for caring' and go on about your business.

When I encounter some groups who are more devisive and haranguing I just smile and say "thank you for caring. Have a nice day" and go on with what I need to get done if I don't have time to enter into a discussion.

 

[quandolak]

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[quandolak]

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[NtheSticks]

As I said, I'm not familiar with what is in UK or Australia, as I've not been there.

but here in the USofA, it is a fact that references to the Judeo-Christian God - the God of the Bible and specifically Jesus Christ - is trying to be removed. And so much of this country's history is based on those values and references that to remove them is to deny factual representation of history.

Reference: removal of Judge Moore from the bench because in the courthouse lobby was a monument that had the Ten Commandments on it, among other things and he wouldn't remove it. That wasn't all that long ago. NUMEROUS court cases that say prayer before athletic events - football, basketball, baseball - in public schools can not be done. Who are the plaintiffs (the person bringing the suit)? People who say that they are atheists in at least two cases. Liberal politicians and judges in two more. Who lets it happen? people who don't stand up and say 'whoa.' But that could go into an entirely different line of soapbox, which my rationality doesn't show when I'm typing in all cases.

Literal: If I display a plaque displaying a Bible verse in my office in some businesses, I will be told to remove it. If my co-worker chooses do display a small statue of Buddha or an article of any other faith, or a suggestive saying, they aren't subjected to the same standard. If I am working with someone, and I mention my activities in my church, and invite them to an upcoming event (should it be a local event for that person) I can be in trouble for that invitation. Those are events I know have happened.

That is the persecution we face more than physical harm here.

 

[quandolak]

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[NtheSticks]

who's trying to remove it? hmmmmm



first lable that comes to mind is 'liberal' but that really doesn't cut it.

I'd have to say, for the most part, those who are anti-religious. But that doesn't cut it, because as I said, it's not anti-religious but anti-Christian. and the references 'we don't want to offend anyone' is ridiculous, because I can promise you I offend simply by breathing. I'm too attitudinal, too much indifferent to the size of someone's bank account or any of the current 'status symbols' that are rocking around out there.

 

[mac_goddess]

I liken religion to makeup, blue will make me look washed out and look far better on someone with a darker complexion then me. Regardless, there is a shade of blue out there for everyone.

But seriously, I have my way of worshipping and it makes me happy. I'm happy if someone else has my lvl of happiness in their own religion. What's right for me isn't necessarily right for others. I have friends of all religions and backgrounds, doesn't bother any of us a bit. We have discussions about each other's beliefs but at the end of the day we respect the choices we each make.

I can't stand the people who try to push their religion onto others. I *get* that some Christians are supposed to spread the word, but if another person isn't ready for it, let them be.

 

[Hawkeye]

Nthesticks-your right we cant really pin it down because its such an evasive group thats trying to remove christianity as a whole. You do have the liberals -but they are too busy trying to please everybody-but if you really want to say the anti religious you almost could because that is a particular group that is in its own little way some form of religion of disbelief of God or questioning God's existance.

 

[Hawkeye]

Mac_goddess, the thing is many misinterpret the bible when Jesus said go out and spread the good news they thought that ment-go out, bug the crap out of people then scare the hell outta them then try to do whatever it takes to win them to the Lord (Since when, I often ask them, do people become nothing more than some stupid prize to God?-they do not like that)

But the truth is, Jesus did the talkin' he was supposed to. He himself said you who finish last will be first. Not numbers. It's all about numbers in the Christian faith (Sometimes it seems to me) how many people you can win to God, How many people attended church, how many people gave how much money....all about the numbers. The numbers should make people uneasy but it doesn't. (Another thing they don't like being asked is why is it they can spare 1.5 million on a new building instead of feeding the homeless on the streets)

But anyway back to the point-the way to "spread the word" of God is by actions. You can talk the talk but the mouth can say anything. You have to SHOW people.

Thats why I'm always pushing for people to know their faith. If they knew their faith really nobody would be trying to convert anyone they would just be doing what they do (by servanthood by kindness etc) and then if someones curious they ask you tell them and if they want to know more you tell them. It's that simple but many many people do not understand that concept. They would rather try to force their beliefs on someone rather than realize that it's not about how many souls go to heaven or whatever.

Like I said I tell the same thing to everyone regardless of faith and many do not listen but those who do they seem to understand the wisdom in it. And I'm not even that smart of a person-I just had a good teacher who taught me that concept.

 

[NtheSticks]

I do agree that the politics of anything tend to get in the way of the purpose. I mean that to include the church, little league, martial arts, racing, any organized group that is ruled by a committee of any form. When people who are in charge of a project or group forget the purpose of the project or group, it gets messy.

I can only do what I can do, as *I* feel led to do it.

I'm not going to sit here and say that (and let me get off the wall for an example) If you dye your hair purple, you're going to hell.

I can answer the question 'why does God send people to hell?' The answer is He doesn't send people to hell. He does honor a person's choice.

But I also have to agree that it probably isn't ONE group taking the rights of Christians . . . it is a process that many have signed on for.

The ACLU was probably a good idea at its inception. I wouldn't give a plugged nickel for them today.

there are many others that are the same.

eh, I've got to get busy. the hungry hoard is about to decend.

 

[mac_goddess]

Quote:

Originally Posted by youbeabitch But anyway back to the point-the way to "spread the word" of God is by actions. You can talk the talk but the mouth can say anything. You have to SHOW people.

My feelings exactly.

 

[Shimmer]

What's sad is that people who are 'living the Christian ideal' often get called snobs, or snooty, or holier than thou, whatever. I know I'm guilty of doing that from time to time in my younger years. As I've gotten older I've realized it wasn't them being that way at all. :/

 

[lovejam]

Religion is (or at least *should* be) a very personal thing. I don't mind seeing someone's work station festooned with their religious symbol(s) of choice. I actually see it quite frequently, and sorry to disappoint those who think their beliefs are being "attacked" in America, but nobody is asked to take anything down. One of the employees at my daughter's pediatrician's office is a Jehovah's Witness. She's got pictures of Jesus everywhere, and copies of that Watchtower magazine scattered on her desk. Nobody minds, because that's her belief, therefore her business.

Now I'm sure that, if she were proselytizing, or insulting anyone else's beliefs, she'd be asked to stop. But, as it is, nobody bothers her about it.

Also, I just looked on my calender, and it looks like Easter and Christmas still exist in America, so I'm not really seeing this intense persecution that people are implying. You want persecution? Look no further than the Federal Marriage Amendment, the recent Ohio abortion ban proposal, or the military's "don't ask, don't tell" policy. Those are just a few examples of true persecution in America. This country has freedom of religion, therefore you are *not* persecuted for your beliefs at all. Your beliefs just aren't being catered to, and they shouldn't be. Separation of church and state, wot wot.

Also, to the person who felt persecuted as a Christian because "once a Christian states a belief, and explains the belief, s/he is attacked for 'trying to convert' someone else," please note that the orignal poster *did* say that her cousin told her the person was "preaching." Preaching tends to mean that yes, they were proselytizing. (I do realize that different people have different ideas of what constitutes preaching, but since we don't know the person who used the word, we have only the use of the word to go on. Therefore, I am speaking from the assumption that she meant the word as the dictionary defines it.)

It's not that atheists, agnostics, or just non-Christians in general are ignorant or scared of Christian beliefs. It's that they're human beings too, and as such, don't really want to hear a contrary opinion/belief when they've already made up their mind. I'm not saying that's always a good thing, but it's a thing no human being on this planet is immune from. Seriously, everyone gets like that sometimes. I've no doubt some "persecuted majority" types reading my post will get upset, because they didn't want to hear that someone else doesn't agree that their belief system is under attack. It's human nature.

Anyway, I hope I didn't offend anybody too badly. I've said my peace, and probably won't come back to the thread after this. I just wanted to offer a different viewpoint. The view of an outsider, who reads about different forms of persecution on a regular basis. I'm a big fan of fighting persecution, and I'm really sorry, but "holiday trees" and separation of church and state do *not* strike me as true persecution. It's not actually robbing you of anything, or infringing on your right to still pray and call a Christmas tree a Christmas tree.

FWIW, I call it a Christmas tree, but perhaps mainly because it's what I'm used to calling it. Human nature, once again.

ETA: Also, to the person who said there's nothing in the Constitution about the separation of church and state? You're right, in a sense. It's actually in the Bill of Rights. Look it up, it's called the Establishment Clause. I'm surprised someone would argue against church and state separation with such certainty before even doing the most basic of google searches. No offense, it just struck me as odd that you didn't look it up first to make sure you were stating a fact.

 

[Wishie88]

I'm also not religious, and have faced a lot of opposition because of this.
But honestly, one of my closest friends is a Jehovahs witness and I've been friends with Christians before.
But my sister has always been VERY outspoken and anti-religion and thats the reason most Christians have targeted her and tried to convert her.
I think that if someone tries to convert you, you should just explain your views on things, because they will then see that you are VERY set in your views.

There are still the odd religious people that dislike me because of that, most of them are christian, but if you ask me.. they're just mean people who HIDE behind their religion, like its an excuse to be rude, mean and ignorant of other people.

 

[kaliraksha]

I choose to be spiritual and not religious. Religion in most forms is just a money making business to me. I take and pick what I like from what religion or not and do what is best for me. I don't hate religion because it teaches some otherwise lost people some "decency" - even if sometimes we may or may not agree with it. I would prefer if people thought for themselves and came up with their own ideals to uphold... but that's just being too optomistic most of the times...

 

[Hawkeye]

ITA.
Sometimes I question religions and why they spend money on items where it would be better used somewhere else and people sometimes they are like sheep heading in for the slaughter-which in many faiths they encourage you to think for yourself but many dont because they are too lazy.