Religious double standards in schools

[*Stargazer*]

It's not about Al Qaida, really. It is about fundamentalists. You can be a fundamentalist nutjob without being a terrorist. I know plenty of moderate, educated Muslims who are totally functional people that despise the reputation they get from the wackjob fundamentals. Very similar to Christianity in some respects.

Al Qaida isn't really about Islam, either. They use it as a convenient excuse and as a recruiting tool to get impoverished, uneducated bodies to carry out their goals.

 

[GalleyGirl]

Re: Please be VERY VERY Careful

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hawkeye A Muslim outrage huh. OK ... let's do a little historical review. Just some lowlights: Muslims fly commercial airliners into buildings in New York City. No Muslim outrage. Muslim officials block the exit where school girls are trying to escape a burning building because their faces were exposed. No Muslim outrage. Muslims cut off the heads of three teenaged girls on their way to school in Indonesia. A Christian school. No Muslim outrage. Muslims murder teachers trying to teach Muslim children in Iraq. No Muslim outrage. Muslims murder over 80 tourists with car bombs outside cafes and hotels in Egypt. No Muslim outrage. A Muslim attacks a missionary children's school in India. Kills six. No Muslim outrage. Muslims slaughter hundreds of children and teachers in Beslan, Russia. Muslims shoot children in the back. No Muslim outrage. Let's go way back. Muslims kidnap and kill athletes at the Munich Summer Olympics. No Muslim outrage. Muslims fire rocket-propelled grenades into schools full of children in Israel. No Muslim outrage. Muslims murder more than 50 commuters in attacks on London subways and busses. Over 700 are injured. No Muslim outrage. Muslims massacre dozens of innocents at a Passover Seder. No Muslim outrage. Muslims murder innocent vacationers in Bali. No Muslim outrage. Muslim newspapers publish anti-Semitic cartoons. No Muslim outrage Muslims are involved, on one side or the other, in almost every one of the 125+ shooting wars around the world. No Muslim outrage. Muslims beat the charred bodies of Western civilians with their shoes, then hang them from a bridge. No Muslim outrage. Newspapers in Denmark and Norway publish cartoons depicting Mohammed. Muslims are outraged. Dead children. Dead tourists. Dead teachers. Dead doctors and nurses. Death, destruction and mayhem around the world at the hands of Muslims .. no Muslim outrage ... but publish a cartoon depicting Mohammed with a bomb in his turban and all hell breaks loose.

Did he ever think that maybe this outrage wasn't reported? Or the outraged people live in countries where outrage against the status quo will land you in jail or worse? Or that maybe these are really extreme examples that represent the actions of bad people, not a bad religion?
Not to say that this PC double standard of bowing down to minorities at the expense of the majority isn't absolutely frustrating, but I think that man is a bit too extreme and unyielding in his views.

 

[GalleyGirl]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ladybug10678 . I am also tired of people refusing to acclimate in different environments and demanding special treatment.

Lol, what is more typically Western behavior though than whining and suing everyone under the sun instead of just not making a fuss and keeping your head down? I don't think these people haven't necessarily not acclimated to Western culture, they just acclimated and primarily adapted to our worst facet of it!

 

[*Stargazer*]

Quote:

Originally Posted by GalleyGirl Lol, what is more typically Western behavior though than whining and suing everyone under the sun instead of just not making a fuss and keeping your head down? I don't think these people haven't necessarily not acclimated to Western culture, they just acclimated and primarily adapted to our worst facet of it!

LMAO, you are so right. What is more American than demanding special treatment then suing when you don't get it? Ahahahahahahahaha.

And I think you're right on your previous post as well. This IS plenty of Muslim outrage. It just doesn't get as much press as it should. I think the main beef comes from the fact that since MAJOR religious people don't issue condemnations of certain acts, people get upset. I think that is somewhat hypocritical considering major religious figures in other religions don't offer condemnation for wrong-doing on the part of their people all the time either.

 

[faifai]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chic 2k6 idk if this is off topic but this might be interesting to you guys Recently as of last week (i was told this by my teacher) that all schools in England has now got the choice of whether their students are allowed to wear a veil, those things that women of Muslim or Islamic religions wear. I for one is unsure of that new rule, i think it might be a good thing if its a type of veil that covers the whole head apart from the eyes but if its a head veil where the whole face is seen, surely that wouldnt matter right? Why would the whole veil issue be significant to the UK schools? I remember in the news that a christian girl got suspended for wearing a small christian cross necklace as it wasnt uniform but a girl at her school wore a veil to show her religion, but surely a veil is not school uniform right?

If a school says you're not allowed to wear jewelry, then you're not allowed to wear jewelry. I have never heard of any Christians who are bound by their faith to wear cross necklaces, and have never read any Bible passages or Church doctrine that would suggest that's the case.

However, Muslim women who wear hijab (that'd be the proper term here, not "veil", because it is not just a head scarf that goes into this type of dress) are not doing it just to "show their religion." Wearing hijab is a religious guideline, which is similar to Jews not eating pork, or Sikhs not cutting their hair. To people who follow their religion to the letter, then yes, it is required of them to do it. It's not just for the hell of it.

If the school mandated that all Orthodox Jewish boys have to cut off their earlocks but Muslim women are allowed to keep their way of dress (headscarves included), or Hindus have to start eating hamburgers for lunch just like everybody else (no special treatment! damn vegetarians) and prevent them from "showing their religion," then you would have an issue of a religious double-standard.

Ultimately though, it is not up to the school to legislate how religious their students are. An analogy for this situation that'd be more of a parallel would be if the student was Catholic and came in on Ash Wednesday with ash on their forehead and the school made them wipe it off because it was out of uniform. In that case, there's clearly an issue going on with who the school is applying their rules to.

Their codes need to take into account that people have religious requirements that they can't just drop because they're at school; it isn't possible to run a school without working these things into it. To say that Muslim girls need to go without their hijab because it's "unnecessary" or Jews and Hindus have to eat non-kosher/non-vegetarian food if the school won't provide them with special food AND won't let them bring their own...who are they to determine what those things mean to other people?

Schools DO work other groups' needs into their program when they have to (special needs kids, anyone?), and for some people it is as impossible for them to abandon their religious convictions as it is for a kid with severe cerebral palsy to just get up and play dodgeball in gym with everyone else. You wouldn't tell the kid that either they can suck it up and go play or they fail.

It is just a VERY tough balancing act for the school between being accomodating enough (sure, you can wear long pants instead of shorts in gym, you can bring lunch from home instead of eating what we provide) and being walked on when people's sense of entitlement runs away with them (you can't do the hw because you gave it up for Lent? er, what religion is that again?)

And that, unfortunately, can happen with people from any race, religion, creed, age, location, gender, etc.

 

[Hawkeye]

Re: Please be VERY VERY Careful

Quote:

Originally Posted by GalleyGirl Did he ever think that maybe this outrage wasn't reported? Or the outraged people live in countries where outrage against the status quo will land you in jail or worse? Or that maybe these are really extreme examples that represent the actions of bad people, not a bad religion? Not to say that this PC double standard of bowing down to minorities at the expense of the majority isn't absolutely frustrating, but I think that man is a bit too extreme and unyielding in his views.

You should e-mail him and ask him

so I'm going to answer your questions with #'s so I can keep track of them.

1) This outrage wasn't reported? Whose outrage? The Muslims who are actually upset about this? Maybe they couldn't because they feared they would no longer "belong" or be shunned as stated in the second article. Or maybe it just doesn't happen.

2) What about the people who are supposed to be outraged that are in safe areas like the US or other "safe" countries. Why do we not hear from them that they are outraged? They know they are safe. They sought to be here. What's the problem? Do they agree? WHy are they not speaking out?

3) That's whats being said. These are people that are bad that happen to be of a religion that he feels is a very violant religion. BUT (and this is MY Opinion here- that I know many muslims who are the sweetest people you will ever meet) now back to his opinion: Or maybe these people who are incessently violent and constantly want to bombard the world trying to get more power through violance is just giving this religion a bad name in modern times and theories? If you look at the above list- every single one of them hid behind the word MUSLIM. So what *I* believe (my opinion again) that these people are using the word MUSLIM much like the fanatics in Christianity are constantly hiding behind the word CHRIST. But we do hear more about the MUSLIMS.

4) I have to say- Had I been brought up to believe everything the news told me I would've been able to agree with you. And his views are very extream with boortz.com he has no grey area- and many times I myself don't agree with his views but I will say that in this case- I think he hit the nail on the head though on somethings on this issue I disagree with- why are the Muslims- allowing these fanatics to throw fits, try to gain power under THEIR religion? Why?

Why do the Muslims allow this Jihad crap? They declared it on everyone else. Nobody sat there and said- oh. yeah. one day I think I'm going to declare some kind of holy war on the muslims just for the hell of it and then they can declare it on my decendents.

Why do the Muslims refuse to stand up and say- damnit we've had enough of people being beheaded? WHy don't they FORCE themselves on the news? That's what people do in the West! We don't hold guns there but we make it out to be a huge event! Why don't they have the guts to say- WE ARE TIRED of being looked on as a religion that is not so peaceful? Why don't they do this?

WHY do they insist on saying they are peaceful but insist on training their young men to go out and be suicide bombers? Why do they insist on bringing down a country? Why do they insist on building nuclear bombs? (IE: Iran is at it now).

Why?

That's all that's being asked.

And the sad part is and I know this as well as anyone else- most Muslims- the really great ones- the sweet ones- the ones who would do anything for you- are too afraid to stand up to these wackos because they know good and well they will be next on the kill list.

I almost wonder if they are afraid in America or if they just don't care anymore.

 

[user79]

Hawkeye, I'm not sure where you are getting this information from, but after 9/11, MANY moderate Islamist groups voiced their deepest abhorment (is that a word?) at the terrorist acts in NYC. Many leaders came out to voice their deep regret and sadness at what happened, and reiterated the fact that this terrorist propaganda goes against the Islamic religion. Which is in fact true, only these terrorists are using the language of religion to justify their actions. The majority of muslims do not support terrorism or terrorist groups. I think you have to differentiate between what you see on the media, how Muslims are portrayed, and what the reality is. The majority of Muslims around the world are moderates, not fanatic fundamentalist, only the latter have a much louder voice.

 

[Hawkeye]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MissChievous Hawkeye, I'm not sure where you are getting this information from, but after 9/11, MANY moderate Islamist groups voiced their deepest abhorment (is that a word?) at the terrorist acts in NYC. Many leaders came out to voice their deep regret and sadness at what happened, and reiterated the fact that this terrorist propaganda goes against the Islamic religion. Which is in fact true, only these terrorists are using the language of religion to justify their actions. The majority of muslims do not support terrorism or terrorist groups. I think you have to differentiate between what you see on the media, how Muslims are portrayed, and what the reality is. The majority of Muslims around the world are moderates, not fanatic fundamentalist, only the latter have a much louder voice.

That was immediately after 9/11-though.

Now, had you read what I have written you would know that I agree that most muslims are pretty nice people and most of this opinion is from boortz. I'm playing his side AND I also thought I made it VERY clear that I was responding to GallyGirls response about HIS opinion.

Now in answer to your question (again- devils advocate here)

What about now?

What about the beheadings? What about the children being shot in the back? What about the riots in Paris over a cartoon? What about the bombings in different countries claimed by Muslim Fundamentalists?

Where can we find the outrage from the Muslim public?

You ask where am I getting the information from- well from the news. From CNN, NBC, FOX, ABC. From the major newspapers.

You very rarely see muslims get upset that someone is going around bombing people all in the name of this being called Allah because they have declared a holy war on the west.

WHY do we not see it in the news that after a bombing a Muslim group stands up and says- STOP and decries it? Why?

And I know the news always prints things very skewed but at the same time- why are the articles that can be found about the Muslims speaking out very few and far between?



Why is that?


That's really what people want to know.

Why was there an outrage after 9/11 But not now? Why do the murders of innocent lives get ignored? Why is it perfectly acceptable for them to go out and hurt someone because they got angry or upset over something silly? (The cartoon for example?)

Why?

 

[geeko]

Even by voicing out, what much can they do? they can rant and complain about the beheadings and violence and so on and so forth, but the islamic extremists won't listen to them .... because they are already so crazed up that all they know is to bomb and kill people regardless of how many moderate muslims oppose their actions.

And another reason, by voicing out their disapproval, they may put their own safety at risk, and though most moderate muslims are against the violence but they don't dare to voice out their disapproval because they are afraid of retailiation.

What we read in the news about protests and acts of violence are mostly acts commited by those group of islamic extremists. It does NOT give a whole picture of howthe community is really is.

Besides, the media likes to give one sided stories. We have to take whatever we read in the papers with a pinch of salt. It is such articles that drive the wedge between people of other religions and muslims.

Do NOT let this affect the relationship, because this article does NOT truly reflect how majority of the world's moderate muslims think and are.

The ones that i know - well they are easy going, pretty liberal and all. They are nice and when asked for personal opinions on the issue, they are also against violence commited by the extremist groups. but what else can they do???

We don't see other groups decrying the terrorist and violence acts so much either, why target only the muslim population? It just pisses me off when un informed people who only look at the surface of things publish such issues to further deepen the rift between non- muslims and muslims.

The ones that we see commiting acts on violence in the media are NOT representative of the majority of the moderate muslims in the world.

I'm a non-Muslim by the way.

 

[Hawkeye]

And because Julia asked and it's a good thing she did because I like references as well....:
I should remind some of you that some of these articles date as far back as 2005 so you may need to register for them :/
This is where I am getting my info from:
www.msnbc.com
www.foxnews.com
www.cnn.com
www.abcnews.com
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4676930.stm
http://www.tulsaworld.com/NewsStory.asp?ID=061201_Ne_A16_Local20348
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,20867,17087512-2703,00.html
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2005/7/7/84638.shtml
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,175135,00.html
http://www.sltrib.com/ci_5230906
http://washingtontimes.com/
http://www.upi.com/NewsTrack/Top_News/20061211-125716-8798r/
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=52037

a gallop poll: (And remember-polls are rather useless because of the scewed questioning etc but i thought it was interesting:
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2006/8/10/165733.shtml?s=ic


Now there have been few reports where I have been pointed out wrong (few and Very far between) but then again- remember the formula- it's not the people who is going around being violents fault- it's any government that sees the backlash...
http://business.guardian.co.uk/story/0,,1842580,00.html
http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,20565905-661,00.html



Now- those are just a few of my sources. Seriously if I listed them all it would be 3 or 4 posts full of just links and some of you may hate me even more for that.

But in all seriousness- if you look through the news (the main news channels in the U.S. and BBC) you will see that any outcry from the muslim community is very few and far between and if they do they blame it on anyone BUT the person responsible for the people being killed.

Why don't they scream out against them?

 

[geeko]

The thing is that ...even if they scream out... I protest against all this violence...

Will it stop the acts of violence commited by the extremist groups? No...the acts of violence will still continue.

They can only silently condemn the acts of violence and continue on with their daily lives. What else can they do? The people who are commiting the violences are already 3/4 crazed....no amount of protest by the moderate muslims will placate them.

If u want to say that only the muslims should issue public statements condemning acts of violence, then other religions should do that as well......and we don't see the other religions condemning the violence as well do we? the problem is, there is simply too much violence going on in the world that people feel helpless to do anything, no matter how much they protest, they know that it will continue...My guess is that they do care, but they are too aclimated to the acts of violence to protest any longer even though they are against the acts of violence.

The motive of committing of all the violent acts is simple: drive a wedge between muslims and those moderate non-muslims, force the moderate muslims to alienated and drive them to the cause of the extremists. I am afraid that such articles might further driften the relations between non-muslims and muslims. We cannot all generalize muslims as such and such a group of people because of some articles. Do note that many of the articles are written from one point of view only.

Hence, i would like to beseech everybody readin this thread NOT to let such articles blind our logic and let our emotions too involved. Sometimes being too emotional is not necessarily good. And there is more to see other than the eye.

Cheers

 

[Hawkeye]

Quote:

Originally Posted by makeupnewbie Even by voicing out, what much can they do? they can rant and complain about the beheadings and violence and so on and so forth, but the islamic extremists won't listen to them .... because they are already so crazed up that all they know is to bomb and kill people regardless of how many moderate muslims oppose their actions. And another reason, by voicing out their disapproval, they may put their own safety at risk, and though most moderate muslims are against the violence but they don't dare to voice out their disapproval because they are afraid of retailiation. What we read in the news about protests and acts of violence are mostly acts commited by those group of islamic extremists. It does NOT give a whole picture of howthe community is really is. Besides, the media likes to give one sided stories. We have to take whatever we read in the papers with a pinch of salt. It is such articles that drive the wedge between people of other religions and muslims. Do NOT let this affect the relationship, because this article does NOT truly reflect how majority of the world's moderate muslims think and are. The ones that i know - well they are easy going, pretty liberal and all. They are nice and when asked for personal opinions on the issue, they are also against violence commited by the extremist groups. but what else can they do??? We don't see other groups decrying the terrorist and violence acts so much either, why target only the muslim population? It just pisses me off when un informed people who only look at the surface of things publish such issues to further deepen the rift between non- muslims and muslims. The ones that we see commiting acts on violence in the media are NOT representative of the majority of the moderate muslims in the world. I'm a non-Muslim by the way.

I'm not sure what you having to be a muslim or not has anything to do with this discussion but whatever blows your skirt up.

And yes, actually we do- when we see anyone go against the Jewish people- there is a huge outcry.
When we see any body go against anyone of color- there is a huge outcry.
When we see anybody go against anyone of any other race or religion- there is an outcry.

Why not them?

Why is it uninformed when the evidence is right there. And 4 of the newsgroups I put up there (CNN, BBC, MSNBC, AND ABC) are very liberal in the fact that they do put up evidence and try to show sides of the story (this coming from someone who does see - as I said again in previous posts that everyone refuses to read- that you do must take with a grain of salt).

And again I'll pose the same question that nobody has answered:

If a muslim is in a "safe" country perse- the U.S., England, Europe, etc. Where is the condemnation from the people residing in those countries?

I can sincerely understand why there would be no outcry in countries such as Iraq, Syria, Iran, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Isreal even etc because that is where the danger is. But the other- I can't.

There's silence. Every now and then you will hear something but other than that- nothing and if they are they will be decried and be shunned.

And again (god I feel like a broken record here) every muslim I've ever encountered has been a wonderful nice person.

But the question remains.

Why no outcry? Why only a private opinion?

The point of all this-
is that if they did start giving a huge outcry and condemning these acts by these fanatics then maybe the divide would begin to close. The silence is making it stay wide open and showing that maybe they do agree (even though they very well could not)

Why then is it so hard to answer the simple question?

Why?

and just to make life a bit easier- I will go through and make each thing I'm sounding like a broken record on a nice pink or something so everyone can see it

-- this is what you can look for!

 

[geeko]

The root of the problem is...even if there is a public outcry, it won't stop the extremists from committing more acts of terror and violence.

It's sad but true... too much violence makes the person "used" to the violence and the person will take it as part and parcel of the life.

No outcry because, if they were to do that....they would be busy outcrying for every single violence committed by the fundamentalists. (when it's not even their mistake that the acts of violence were commited and they didn't even condone the violence)

And another reason, people are selfish. Those living in the moderate countries are living comfortable lives and see no point in doing a public outcry to all these acts of violence. This includes muslims and non-muslims alike. It's too remote for them to be raise an outcry...Maybe if the acts were commited jus in the neighbouring country, they would issue a public condemnation. Otherwise, it's a "well it's none of my business" attitude for them. And it's not only muslims, but also non muslims as well.

And even if they did publicly outcried, the acts of violence will still NOT stop, and sooner or later they will go back to being silent anyway.

outcrying just does not deter these group of extremists from committing their acts of terror.

As for those offensive cartoon comics, i hate to admit, but yes...it is religious INSENSITIVE to publish those cartoons. If a similar pic was published of jesus christ, i am pretty damned sure that christians would also protest.

 

[Hawkeye]

Quote:

The root of the problem is...even if there is a public outcry, it won't stop the extremists from committing more acts of terror and violence.

But it WILL help the healing to begin and for the Western community to realize that this is not the viewpoint of all Muslims. And if the Muslim community bands together in the west- the Muslim Community in the East will know they have support.
Quote:

outcrying just does not deter these group of extremists from committing their acts of terror.

I can name you two times in very recent history where the outcry came and was met with like minded people and started revolutions to stop it. I can name you one in in fairly 200+ years ago- and thats off the top of my head.

What are they you ask? You'll have to ask before I tell

And nothing can convince me otherwise that until they decide to band together the entire hope that the perspective will change will flush down the toilet.

Quote:

As for those offensive cartoon comics, i hate to admit, but yes...it is religious INSENSITIVE to publish those cartoons. If a similar pic was published of jesus christ, i am pretty damned sure that christians would also protest.

Protesting and rioting are two very different things.

AND going back to the other post:

Quote:

Hence, i would like to beseech everybody readin this thread NOT to let such articles blind our logic and let our emotions too involved. Sometimes being too emotional is not necessarily good. And there is more to see other than the eye.

I was asked for referrences. I gave references. From very reliable sources.

Who exactly is being emotional?

These articles are exactly what was asked for and that's what I gave.

I DO want and I almost demand that people look at these articles get their own ideas go through the history of time and decide for themselves. I only presented my side. Where is your side? Where are your articles? Let us help these others to decide for themselves. Educate them! Give them information. Help them to understand. Help ME to understand. References.

 

[geeko]

to add on, the muslim leaders in my country have issued public condemnations of violent acts commited by the islamic miliant groups in thailand against other non-muslims before, they also have issued condemnations against other acts of violence, but i can't remember what they wer.

It is easier if the community is small and that the muslim leaders are united. But in countries where the muslim population is large and opinions are divided, it's difficult to issue a public condemnation as the community is not united.

http://www2.mha.gov.sg/mha/cep/pm_speech.html
quote :"the Organisation of Islamic Conference, the OIC, has made a joint statement denouncing the publication of the cartoons but also 'strongly condemned the deplorable attacks on diplomatic missions', and said that the 'aggression against life and property can only damage the image of a peaceful Islam'"

http://cbs5.com/local/local_story_196205004.html

check out this article, i think it's highly related

 

[Hawkeye]

Quote:

to add on, the muslim leaders in my country have issued public condemnations of violent acts commited by the islamic miliant groups in thailand against other non-muslims before, they also have issued condemnations against other acts of violence, but i can't remember what they wer.

What country do you live in? May I have the names of the religious leaders? This is a good thing and I applaud the leaders for doing so! That takes guts.
Quote:

It is easier if the community is small and that the muslim leaders are united. But in countries where the muslim population is large and opinions are divided, it's difficult to issue a public condemnation as the community is not united.

Indeed it is much easier- but the price of peace is great and it does not stand for the "easy" route. Each side must be willing to make sacrifices - it's that way with every family, every marriage, every friendship, every relationship you can imagine. The Muslim community must unite and start decrying these things as a whole if it ever wants to have a hope to get the negative perceptions about them to be thrown away. It is a necessity for them.

 

[Beauty Mark]

I haven't discussed this with any Muslims, but I have several guesses as to why they don't protest other things. If it's psychologically/culturally ingrained in them not to, even if you're in a "free" country, it's difficult to shake those conditioning, considering what you say in certain areas would've gotten you tortured and killed. Even if you were born in the US, if you have a close-knit family of immigrants, they can instill values like that in you.

Further into psychological reasons, I'm going to guess that they fear alienating others. If they're first gen. immigrants, who speak very little English, you cling to those around you who are in a similar situation. If your neighbors have some sympathies towards something you don't agree with, you may not want to rock the boat, for fear of essentially being kicked out of the community.

 

[Hawkeye]

Quote:

check out the article on why muslim leaders spread a message of peace. I think this article just hits on the question on why we don't hear muslim leaders condemning

[ Quote:

B]Muslim Leaders Spread A Message Of Peace [/b] http://cbs5.com/local/local_story_196205004.html (With pictures and video) (CBS 5) Many Muslims live their lives in relative anonymity. But acts of terrorism have recently brought their religion under the microscope. Maha ElGenaidi of the Islamic Networks Group says the religion often draws criticism in times like these. "The number one question we get from Americans of other faiths is 'Why don't we hear Muslims condemning terror?'" ElGenaidi says. But Will Youmans of the Council on American-Islamic relations says there is a reason people don't hear those condemnations. "The problem is that the people who blow things up get the front page," Youmans says. Now, another group is trying to grab the headlines. Leaders of Bay Area mosques, churches, and synagogues say they want to send a message of peace. "As a Muslim leader, I'd like to take this moment to assure the American public, neighbors, and coworkers that we stand with them against terrorism, and that they do not need to fear us," said Tahir Anwar of the South Bay Islamic Association. In San Francisco, Souleiman Ghali takes a similar stance. "We want to make our voice clear, without ambiguity. They don't represent our religion," says Ghali. The Bay Area voices are being backed up by a national ad campaign. The public service announcements are part of a campaign called "Not in the Name of Islam." "Islam is not about hatred and violence, it's about peace and justice," says one advertisement. But Muslim leaders say it is not enough to simply speak of peace. "We who work in the community pledge that we will stand firm and we will prevent, as best we can, the type of homegrown militancy that struck London," Youmans said Friday. Interfaith leaders say the Muslim community is being demonized by the acts of a few. They hope the voices of the religion's masses will now be heard. By Sherry Hu

Indeed it does. I wanted to post it so others could see (I'm crazy like that)

I applaud them.

Now here is the next question:

How do we change it? How do we get other Muslim community leaders to follow suit? How can we get this perception to change? Just one or two can't do a lot unfortunately. It's one of those it must come through the grassroots.

and beautymark:
Quote:

I haven't discussed this with any Muslims, but I have several guesses as to why they don't protest other things. If it's psychologically/culturally ingrained in them not to, even if you're in a "free" country, it's difficult to shake those conditioning, considering what you say in certain areas would've gotten you tortured and killed. Even if you were born in the US, if you have a close-knit family of immigrants, they can instill values like that in you. Further into psychological reasons, I'm going to guess that they fear alienating others. If they're first gen. immigrants, who speak very little English, you cling to those around you who are in a similar situation. If your neighbors have some sympathies towards something you don't agree with, you may not want to rock the boat, for fear of essentially being kicked out of the community.

You hit the nail on the head babe. That's one of the biggest reasons why.

and as for my sources in history

- Civil Rights Movement
-The Holocost
-The American Revolutionary war

and another that came to mind:

Ghandi.

 

[Shimmer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by makeupnewbie As for those offensive cartoon comics, i hate to admit, but yes...it is religious INSENSITIVE to publish those cartoons. If a similar pic was published of jesus christ, i am pretty damned sure that christians would also protest.

Protest?
Sure.
Riot?
Probably not...in fact, no. They wouldn't. The movie Dogma comes to mind. There were no killings or riotings over that, IIRC.

Just saying.


There's a difference between "Protest" and "Lets all lose our shit and start firebombing and blowing things and people up."

 

[geeko]

another interesting article

http://www.fareedzakaria.com/article...ek/071805.html

some main points:

The response outside Britain has also been much stronger than ever before. The grand imam of Al-Azhar, Sheik Mohammed Sayyed Tantawi, condemned the bombers but went further, rejecting the argument that this attack could be justified as an attempt to force Britain out of Iraq. "This is illogical and cannot be the motive for killing innocent civilians," he said. More striking have been the condemnations from radical groups like Hamas, Hizbullah and Egypt's Muslim Brotherhood, all of which have denounced the bombings. Many of them have, of course, coupled their attacks on the terrorists with denunciations of American and British policies in the Middle East, particularly regarding Iraq and the Palestinian territories. But that kind of rhetoric is old news. What is new here is the fact that no one, not even Hamas, can continue to condone or even stay silent about these barbarities.

................................

These kinds of events will continue. There should be much, much greater condemnation from mainstream Islam. Moderates must adopt a zero-tolerance policy on terrorism, regardless of what they think of Iraq, Palestine or any other policy issue. But those clamoring for such condemnations should bear in mind that this will not solve the problem. Even if the moderates win and overwhelm the extremists, there will always be some number of unconverted jihadists, who either out of depravity or conviction seek to do evil. If 99.99 percent of the Arab world rejects terrorism, that still leaves 20,000 people to worry about. If 99.9 percent of the Muslim world is against the terrorists, there's 1 million people out there who are dangerous. And the technologies of destruction ensure that they will, on occasion, be successful.

i enjoy this debate...but unfortunately i have to prepare for a school project presentation so i can't do any more further in depth research on this topic. But i'll end off by leaving this article for u girls to chew on. Peace to all.